BP 1886 help

[charger 1]

Well I know ya boys all knew I was away and missed me severely :roll: ANYHOO
Heres what I been doin
http://usera.imagecave.com/chargerdive/HPIM1068.JPG
First year production 1886 round barrel mint outside with gleaming sharp bore. Yes you can applaude now...[smilie=1:
I aint runnin black in er. I remember seeing one time a fellow (taking great care) used 2400 and filler to give superb accuracy at BP pressures. Anybody ever seen this? Cause thinking it would be easy to find again I truck loaded some 2400

[rugerman1]

Sweet rifle ya have there :drinks:

[coyotebait]

Wow! What a nice rifle. You didn't say what caliber. If I were to shoot it I'd use trailboss powder, nice and bulky, bp pressures if not compressed.
coyotebait

[charger 1]

Wow! What a nice rifle. You didn't say what caliber. If I were to shoot it I'd use trailboss powder, nice and bulky, bp pressures if not compressed.
coyotebait


45/70...24.5 grains of 2400 with 17 grains of PSB is giving cloverleafs at 75 yds

[charger 1]

and at 100
http://usera.imagecave.com/chargerdive/HPIM1069.JPG

[405]

That's one rare rifle there charger 1!
Extremely hard to find a high condition, early 86 with top grade bore in 45-70!!!
The Win 86 along with the Win 71 are two of the finest large lever tube mag. guns ever made.... in my opinion.

Excellent target! If you shot that group with the 2400 plus filler I certainly wouldn't change a thing unless you're wanting a little less pressure- can't tell by your post?? Never tried that combo in my 86s.
Have shot the 300 gr. Cast Performance FPGC .459 over 30 gr. of 5744..... fairly mild "Cowboy" load for the oldsters and has proven to be very accurate in the 86. BP also works well and gives better assurance of no surprises in the BP type guns.

[Buckshot]

..............That's a beatimus old rifle! Congratulations on finding it. Were you missing because you were in the hospital recovering from the ass-whupping your wife gave you over it :-) One thing you can be sure of, and that is that it will only accelerate in value.

..............Buckshot

[charger 1]

Excellent target! If you shot that group with the 2400 plus filler I certainly wouldn't change a thing unless you're wanting a little less pressure- can't tell by your post?? .



Ya the pressure thing is in my mind. I know with 2400 theres the possibility of pressure excess. I'd like thoughts on that load..


No I aint took a woopin Buck cause when I come home with the gun I was in a new car for momma. This boy didnt just roll off the turnip truck you know:-D

[Boz330]

Ya the pressure thing is in my mind. I know with 2400 theres the possibility of pressure excess. I'd like thoughts on that load..


No I aint took a woopin Buck cause when I come home with the gun I was in a new car for momma. This boy didnt just roll off the turnip truck you know:-D

Makes for a pretty expensive 86 that way:mrgreen:, but that is a nice looking rifle. I've got one in 40-82 but had to have the barrel relined cuz it wouldn't keep any 2 rounds in the same county. Shoots good now though. Bob

[charger 1]

Makes for a pretty expensive 86 that way:mrgreen:, but that is a nice looking rifle. I've got one in 40-82 but had to have the barrel relined cuz it wouldn't keep any 2 rounds in the same county. Shoots good now though. Bob


No no see ya got that backwards. For the last year mommas been due for new wheel. But if ya go get the wheels when ya should you got the cost and the fan fair but nothin for you. If you wait till you find just the right gun you want on the way, the fuss and fan fair drown the gun and the plus is you got what ya want. Same price together or seperate, but together is smooth as a silk worms pecker

[405]

charger 1,
Agreed, no need to test the strength of what is likely a very expensive and valuable gun. I'm sure that the 86 action will take most anything you throw at it BUTthe milder BP barrel/chamber steels of 1886 shouldn't be pushed.
Looking at the Lyman data for trapdoor 45-70 loads and the AA cowboy 45-70 loads- might try either 4759 or 5744.

For best magazine function in the 86 need to stay with a 300-400 gr. RNFP bullet. I've had good luck with shooting the Cast Performance .459 GC 300 gr FP in my original 86s. Accuracy has been very good. I think that at least one of the small companies that loads factory cast bullet loads for the old/obsolete cartridges uses 5744 in the big straight-walled cases. Because of liability issues I'm sure they have had them lab pressure tested and in the case of the 45-70 imagine they keep the loads to Trapdoor or lower pressures. I have had and continue to have a Love-Hate relationship with 5744. It does what it's supposed to do..... just hate the dirty nature of the stuff in addition to the unburned powder granules left after firing.

That closed bottom action (receiver sump:mrgreen:) in the Win 71s, 86s and 92s do gather all manner of crud including all that danged unburned 5744:mrgreen:
Hey, just have to pull all the wood off once in a while, spray out thoroughly with a solvent like carb cleaner, re-oil and get back at it.

[McLintock]

Can't help you on the 2400, but can talk about a good low pressure load with 5744 in just about any 45-70. I got a Browning '86 and 1885 about the same time and was looking for a good load for long range matches in Cowboy shooting. Started working with 5744 and the 28 gr load listed on the powder container, and as stated by 405, got lots of unburned powder and so-so groups with both 300 and 405 gr bullets. Finally started going down in 1/2 gr increments till I reached 22.0. The accuracy increased dramatically and unburned powder decreased significantly down to 24.0 grs, and then still got better in both regards but not as much, down to 22.0 bottom. Finally settled on 23.0 grs with 405 bullet, and been using it for about 7-8 years now with great results, as has several of my shooting partners, in both lever guns and single shots. Have shot it in old '86's, new '86's, both Browning and Winchester, Marlin CB's, Browning single shots, including standard grades, Traditional Hunters and BPCR's, Shiloh Sharps, and custom Rollers; it shot well in all of them. I chrony'd it once and if I remember right it was going about 1150 or so. If you're worried about the pressure thing in your fine old '86 this might be a load you'd want to try. My original '86 was a 1896 vintage one with a fine bore and lots of special order features and the load treated it very nicely. That is one nice rifle you got there.
McLintock

[KCSO]

That 2400 load should be well within the capacity of your 1886. Waters, in Pet Loads used his original 1886 with some very stout loads and claimed that the gun was good for all but the highest pressure loads in the book. I switched to Reloader 7 in mine and dropped the pressure to about 3/4 that of Unique and 2400. Looking at that group I would say don't change a thing, it don't get better than that!

[MtGun44]

57.0 W748 is a trapdoor pressure load that is very accurate out of
my Marlin with either the RCBS 405 GC, the Rem 405 or Speer 405 j-bullets.
I use a magnum primer and get 1.5"-2" at 100 for 5 shots, and 1750
fps.

Nice hunting load, will not challenge your work of riflemaker's art, pressurewise.

Bill

[freedom475]

Wow thats a great find!!! nice rifle...

I have to agree with mtGun44 here on using rifle powder in rifles.

Sure don't want to open "That" can of worms here:mrgreen:...( don't want too turn your thread into another "filler debate")but when powder is kept from leveling out in a big case by the use of fillers, the possibillity of chamber ringing is very high. especially with powder designed for short pistol barrels. You get an 85% burn in the first 10 inches of barrel

I don't see much mention of it in here... but I have had very good success with Varget in my Sharps and my 1886 Browning 45-70's.

Hope this helps and doesn't start a "free-for-all on fillers. these guns are just to precious and valuble for me to even take a chance.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

My 86 too is in pristeen shape, but with a 26 inch orangatang barrel. Not great fun to carry around for a long time, but the extra weight comes in handy for managing the recoil. I've been using IMR 3031- settled on 47 grains, which groups decently for me- about 5", at 100 yards. Have also gone as high as 53 grains with the Lyman #457124, a round nose-listed as weighing 405 grains Mold is dropping them at around 390grs, with WW at .458. I shoot them unsized with NRA-50/50 and a roll crimp. Got the 3031 loadings from an old NRA book on handloading that listed the 53 grain load as being pretty potent. If you try it just make sure that you don't put the curved buttplate in the wrong place.

[charger 1]

Could my filler really be pushing it up to and over max, when this is what its at without

385gr LFP 25.0 gr 2400 1,340 fps 2.575" LR
Lever Action Level 2 from Hercules Powder Reloader’s Guide 4/85 21,300 CUP, 385 gr Cast Lead (GC), Rem 9 1/2 primer

[StrawHat]

I have read somewhere, perhaps Handloader magazine, about the Winchester 1886 actually being built to two seperate levels. It all depends on the barrel as I recall.

Someone with a better memory can correct me but it has something to do with the barrel steel as to whether or not pressures beyond BP level should be tried.

KW also alluded to that in several of his articles.

I will dig around and try and find citable references.

[charger 1]

Went with 37 grains of RL7...Not worth even the smallest chance....Lost a tad of accuracy but it still goes where I point

[TCLouis]

Thanx for posting that load data.

I ran a hundred or so thru the Rolling Block and Contender with 340 RCBS PB and Ranch Dog's mold that casts at 378 in my alloy. Next testing will be in the 1886, which is in good condition, but certainly does not have the finish left that is on the gun that started this thread.

Little chrono work and some polishing of the load, but it performed very well.

Dang, if I coulda only got the other 16 pounds of 5744 he had.

[barefooter175]

45/70...24.5 grains of 2400 with 17 grains of PSB is giving cloverleafs at 75 yds

OK, what's PSB? I have been shooting BPC for 10 years and don't know the term.

BTW, I have never used wads in my revolver or .45-70 loads. Any recommendations? I want to give them a try.