45-70 powder puff loads?

[rpludwig]

New to 45-70, (picked up a Henry). Fired it with some factory ammo yesterday, supurbly accurate at ringing the gong at 50 &100...albeit a bit punishing for any volume of a day at the range.

Looking for some recipies for powder puff loads for plinking, gong & paper. I load mostly pistol 45acp and 45lc with 200gr lswc and I do not cast. Powder on hand is 231, 800x, Green Dot, and can likely land some rifle powders locally. Can that 200gr lswc be used with this cartridge (with any level of accuracy)?

Any thoughts, recommendations?

Thx in advance guys...

Ron

[Skipper]

New to 45-70, (picked up a Henry). Fired it with some factory ammo yesterday, supurbly accurate at ringing the gong at 50 &100...albeit a bit punishing for any volume of a day at the range.

Looking for some recipies for powder puff loads for plinking, gong & paper. I load mostly pistol 45acp and 45lc with 200gr lswc and I do not cast. Powder on hand is 231, 800x, Green Dot, and can likely land some rifle powders locally. Can that 200gr lswc be used with this cartridge (with any level of accuracy)?

Any thoughts, recommendations?

Thx in advance guys...

Ron



http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Scroll down on the left side of the page

[xtphreak]

Check the dimensions on the bore, the 45 pistol shoots about 0.452 cast, the .45/70 about 0.458-0.459 cast depending on bore.

[texassako]

I don't know how they feed in a lever rifle, but a round ball load with 10gr of Unique has become my new favorite powder puff load in .45-70. You should be able to do something similar with the right amount of 800x or Green Dot.

[rpludwig]

thanks gents!

I see 10gr. green dot under a 350gr. fpbb showing decent accuracy on the gmdr site....think I'll give it a go, now need to find some suitable boolits...

[Nrut]

Buy a cheap LEE mold and learn to cast..
They make a plain base that throws a 340gr. bullet in .458 cal.

[donhuff]

Ron,

I don't think you'll get the 45 pistol bullets to work as they are way too small at .452.

I have a rossi rio grande, and the bore is right on .457. I cast the Lee 405 F and size it to .459, but others size there's to .458 and have good luck. I started with the .459 sizer and it worked so well that I had no reason to get another sizer.
I load it with 13.0 grains of 800X for my mild load. That gets me 1100 fps and is mild enough that I can shoot a lot of them without pain. It could probably be reduced more and still work ok, but it is so mild and accurate that I don't have any desire to mess with it.

The Lee 340F should work just as well as it is just a shortened version of the same bullet design. Using that bullet would make for an even milder load.

I looked at the Meister Bullets web site, and they have several bullets sized at .458 starting at 300 grains and going up to 500.... that one ought to hurt a little.

[rpludwig]

don...very helpful....have a lb of 800x that I have no other use for...will chk out the Meister site and others, will likely try some 300-350gr for this purpose and develop a pleasant plinking load...but will slug the bore first...

thx again!

[donhuff]

Get ready to start cussin cause that 800X meters poorly. After you get use to it, you'll probably find that it is a very versatile powder, and can be used in a lot of cartridges. I have a 10mm and it is one of "THE" powders for that cartridge. I got 8lbs of it when that was all I could find (wanted Unique) and I have used it everywhere I usually use unique and it has done well. My 30-30 load is 8.5 grains and a lee 170 cast gas checked.

[rpludwig]

don...likewise, I bought some 800x when i couldn't find my usual stuff for .45acp....only to learn that it "meters like corn flakes" from others on this and other sites, so the can is still unopened. So, help me out here...how do you "get used to it", short of weighing every charge? (I use a Uniflow w/micrometer attachment).

BTW, I finally did happen upon some CFE pistol and Green Dot, so I'm ok for now on pistol, but would love to put the 800x to work on this 45-70 experiment.

thx again for the advice!
Ron

[donhuff]

I use a uniflo, but I use the large hole drum in it as it seems to do better with the large flakes. I made a new drum with a 3/8th" hole thinking long and skinny would do better, but that's the wrong way to go with 800x. The little hole works great with small charges of fine grain though.

When you bring the lever to the up stop, give it a couple of taps on the stop. This settles the powder and fills the hole better. This gets it close enough for me as I'm not too picky about it being dead on. One or two tenths either way does not bother me, and does not affect the accuracy as much as most people think it does. Just try to be consistent with how you do it, and don't use 800x for maximum charges where two tenths too much, might get you into trouble.

BTW I have read that 800x is "suppose" be be really good in the 45 ACP. But I've not tried it there yet.

[dla]

don...likewise, I bought some 800x when i couldn't find my usual stuff for .45acp....only to learn that it "meters like corn flakes" from others on this and other sites, so the can is still unopened. So, help me out here...how do you "get used to it", short of weighing every charge? (I use a Uniflow w/micrometer attachment).

BTW, I finally did happen upon some CFE pistol and Green Dot, so I'm ok for now on pistol, but would love to put the 800x to work on this 45-70 experiment.

thx again for the advice!
Ron

Follow that link posted for you earlier and study the charts. You'll see that fast pistol powders are used all the time to make plinkers. I had some undersized 500gr fodder that I pushed with 7gr of Clays to 750fps - plinkers for my Guide Gun. I'm getting ready to make some 405gr versions with the same charge that will run ~900fps. I keep some on hand for the kids.

[John Taylor]

Some smokeless powders are not good in light loads. This was with reloader 7 using 41 grains and a 260 grain bullet that was lighter than the book recommended. I have shot 11 grains of Unique with a 400 grain bullet many times and it seems to shoot very good with light recoil. 108606

[Kevinakaq]

I have shot 11 grains of Unique with a 400 grain bullet many times and it seems to shoot very good with light recoil. 108606

I will second this load. Have had good results using 11-12 grains unique and the 340 gr lee flat nose as well. Very enjoyable to shoot. With the RX7 my handi rifle is less than pleasurable to shoot. I would rather hunt grizz with a willow switch if i had to use it...

[John Boy]

Check the dimensions on the bore, the 45 pistol shoots about 0.452 cast, the .45/70 about 0.458-0.459 cast depending on bore. BAD ADVICE!


I don't think you'll get the 45 pistol bullets to work as they are way too small at .452.
Absolutely Correct!

45 Long Colt bullets 452 and 454 are smaller than the lands diameter of a 45-70. Those bullets will wobble down the bore - leading will incur and accuracy will be poor

[Wayne Smith]

John, attachments don't seem to work at all with the new software.

[monge]

My marlins love 340-350gr cast sized to .460 with 27grs of 2400 and a tuff of Dacron should shoot at 1500fps . mild recoil and accurate!

[ghh3rd]

Thanks for that link, Skipper! I was thinking of loading up some plinkers for the 45-70.

[Duckiller]

A 300+ gr cast boolit over a minimum load of Trail Boss (about 13gr,from memory, check with a manual) is a lot of fun to shoot. 405 gr cast over a lower minimum load is even better. shoot a bunch with next to no recoil. Lee molds are cheap and have worked for me. If you don't want to cast then you can buy cast boolits of the correct size. Probably too hard for hunting but fine for plinking.

[rintinglen]

I have a 4 cavity 457-192 that casts 350 grainers that sees the most service. I like 20.5 grains of 2400 with a filler for a "shoot-all-day" load. The Lee 340 grainer is very similar and should give similar results. The RCBS 45-325U is also very good with the above load.
For a 50 yard plinker, I have a 454-424 that I lapped out to .4575. I get a cerca​ 260 grain boolit that works reasonably well with 11 grains of Unique or Herco.

[Lead Fred]

45 caliber, 70 grains of holy black, and a 405 grain boolit

[searcher4851]

45 caliber, 70 grains of holy black, and a 405 grain boolit

Great load, but not exactly the plinker load the OP was asking for.

I don't use any of the powders you (the OP) asked about, but I run a lot of plinkers using anywhere from 11 to 13 grains of Red Dot under a 405 gr boolit. Very mild to shoot, and reasonable accuracy. The variation in powder weights is because I shoot them in three different rifles, and each has it's own preference.

[xtphreak]

Check the dimensions on the bore, the 45 pistol shoots about 0.452 cast, the .45/70 about 0.458-0.459 cast depending on bore.


BAD ADVICE!

Absolutely Correct!

45 Long Colt bullets 452 and 454 are smaller than the lands diameter of a 45-70. Those bullets will wobble down the bore - leading will incur and accuracy will be poor

Just curious why my telling him to check the differences between cast bullet sizes of .45 Colt & his .45/70 was "BAD ADVICE"??

[rpludwig]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Scroll down on the left side of the page


first outing yesterday with powder puff loads from the gmdr site....350 gr. FPBB over 10 gr. Green Dot, CCI 200 primers, Starline brass....pleasure to shoot, recoil about like a .243 or less, consistant on a 6" gong at 100, haven't printed it yet, but so far good, thx for the link!!

Ron

[bigted]

bit of trivia here concerning those .452 and .454 inch diameter boolits for the colt ...

take and wrap em with 9 pound onion skin paper from baco and load em with a full case of IMR 3031 under them and they turn into a streak of light coming outta a good modern 45-70. they should wet wrap into a dry .460 or + diameter and man are they fun to shoot. they polish a bore like nobodys business and they hold together for 50 to 100 yards depending on your rate of twist.

[bigted]

those above are no powder puff loads tho i am afraid ... kinda forgot the OP question.

[40-82 hiker]

Accurate has a 300gr. mold that should be great. I've got my eyes on one. Loved shooting some given to me. 46-300B is the mold number. Tell Tom which alloy, and what size you want to drop, and you can probably pan lube if you wanted to.

[Michael J. Spangler]

my friend has loaded a bunch of 405s over around 12-15 grains on unique.
shot in my marlin guide gun and through his light weight little H&R carbine.
it's like a 22 on steroids.
should still give about 900 ft-lbs of energy with no kick at all. it's like a big boy 45 colt. that would probably be more than enough for mid sized game with no meat damage at all.
drill a half inch hole clear through

[FredBuddy]

Look at the paper-patch section and the alternative coatings section here !

I've been paper patching the .452 SWC meant for 45 ACP in my 45-70 for a year now. I just started powder coating the same boolit for the 45-70 also.

Both processes bring the .452 up to .460 and are accurate to at least 50 yds and are cheap to do (cheaper than .22LR in this day and age).

Of course, nothin's better than the 405 grainer's, but I hate to send those bouncing across the fields to the next farm when shooting groundhogs !

[fouronesix]

Just curious why my telling him to check the differences between cast bullet sizes of .45 Colt & his .45/70 was "BAD ADVICE"??

I had the same question when reading this thread. Seems like your advice was spot on. Oh well.

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As to the OP, there are powder puff loads and then there are accurate loads. They may not be the same! My favorite light and accurate load for the 45-70 is a light load of 5744 under the RCBS 300-FN gas check. I go even lighter than that with dacron filler. But if unsure of the correct use of dacron filler it may be best to avoid the filler- individual choice and judgement.