I finally got some black!

[Bullshop Junior]

This is something I have long wanted to play with but never have. Yesterday I was gifted a pound of Elephant 2Fg. This I intend on using in my puma 92 454.

So what do I need to know?

I figured a 45 colt filled flush dumped into a 454 case topped with a 250 or 300gn bullet?

I am ignorant about black. Any advice would be appreciated.

[country gent]

Lightly compress the powder charge add a card wad between powder and bullet. With soft bullets its better to compress powder with te wad seperate from seating the bullet.
Air space between powder and bullet causes issues at times.

[TXGunNut]

Congrats, I enjoy a dose of black every chance I get. A 454 case full of BP will be very close to what the old balloon head 45 Colt case used to hold. Should be fun in your Rossi. I shoot my Colt loads without a wad but try it both ways. I load FFFg in my 45 Colt but FFg should work OK.
My shooting buddy shoots BP in his 32 WS. Not getting good results but rifle has unrelated issues so he's still working on it. Rifle loads generally work better with a wad. Blackpowder lube (I use SPG) generally works best but after perusing the thread about Ben's Red in BP I'm more open-minded.

[Bullshop Junior]

I'm gonna try to get some bullshop #2 made up if dad will fork over the recipe lol

I cant dip black with the lee plastic scoops, correct? Has to be brass or copper?

[TXGunNut]

I use the Lee scoops, 2.2 or 2.5cc depending on your boolit and case.

[Springfield]

Plastic scoops work fine. I load all my BP ammo on my stock Dillon 550 with the plastic hopper, same for all my BP shotgun, stock MEC jr loaders. Use a bullet with decent size lube grooves and use a softer lube and you should be fine for at least 20 shots, after that you may start to get carbon fouling that will ruin accuracy. Unless you are shooting more than 100 yards I don't think the wads are necessary. I can hit 18" plates at 100 yards with my Henry 44-40 easily, just powder and bullet. NASA lube works great, I'm sure you Dad will kick some loose for ya!

[bigted]

Daniel ... great to hear you gonna try some black. gotta say im kinda surprised that yer pap never had you loading and shooting bp in the past tho.

it be very easy to load with. the start load would require some math at first to begin with ... such as this;

1- measure your boolit from the base to the crimp groove.
2- take this measurement and fill a case with your black powder to a point that it is filled to the point that your boolit will compress the powder 1/8th inch or .125 inch.
3- now pour this powder back out of the case into your scale to find out what weight it weigh's
4- now you have the grainage of your powder to be your beginning load.
5- load all your cases with this grainage of powder and take half of your loads and add a vegi wad between boolit and powder.
6- seat your boolits lubed with either your dads NASA lube or SPG and crimp em nice n tight.
7- now go shoot em carefully with a good fouling control system and discover which load ... wads or plain ... are the better accuracy load in your rifle.

I would clean the bore every 5 or so rounds to find your accuracy regimen. might be able to go more but check to be sure instead of guessing.

clean up is very easy with a lever ... just get a string "pull thru" cleaning rod and put a wet patch on the jag and push the string from the breech to the muzzle ... now pull the wet patch thru the barrel from the breech to the muzzle and drop off the dirty patch ... now repeat with a fresh patch till most or all of the fouling is gone ... now you can clean with a solid cleaning rod from the muzzle and no worries about pushing any crud into the action.

another very easy way to do this is to leave the last fired case in the closed chamber and shove 2 or 3 wet patch's into the empty case ... then remove the dirty case and clean the barrel regular with no crud again in the action.

plastic scoops will work just fine and I would venture a guess that thousands and thousands of rounds have been loaded in such a manner and never had any problems that the lawyer induced warnings have eluded to.

you are gonna have such a great time with this powder that you will wonder why you took so long to begin the excursion ... is what I predict.

have fun brother and try not to set Texas on fire too quickly.

[Bullshop Junior]

I was gonna shoot some today since I had some time off work but ended up playing with my new 25/20 instead.

I also realized u dont own a cleaning rod. So I need to fix that before shooting any black.

What about cleaning the cases?

[Bullshop Junior]

Also BP is hard to come by in AK so I was never allowed to shoot much of it. I shot some in a ML I had but that's it.

[bigted]

take your fired cases and put in a mik jug full of water and 2 or 3 squirts of dawn or other dish washing soap and allow them to soak for a few hours. then rinse them till all soapy water is gone ... now dry and vibrate if shiney is desired ... load dry cases and repeat.

yep the bp IS hard to get in AK but now you are in the easy zone for BP aquisition. have a blast Daniel.

[Bullshop Junior]

What about throwing them in the washing machine in one of those bag thingys?

Anyway. I just dug around and...aha!!! Found the lonely 16 454 cases that I own that I have been saving for a special project. It seems that about 37gns fit in the case with about 1/8" compression. I have a 250gn RCBS copy that has a nice wide groove that I filled with a good soft lube. Loaded 8 with card board wads and 8 with the bullet set on the powder. Now I cant wait to go shooting again!

[Mike Malat]

Washing Machine is overkill and will probably upset the spousal unit. :-P Hot water and dawn in a jug or bucket, swirl, rinse, repeat, until clean. Simple is good.

[bigted]

cant wait to hear bout your outting with the blackpowder. your 92 should shine in the accuracy dept. if it foul's out too quick ... maybe next time try a cookie between the powder and boolit ... this helps keep the powder fouling soft for longer and also helps in the cleanup with softer fouling.

[Nobade]

Just don't judge all black powder by that pound of Elephant. I have never seen worse black powder anywhere, except maybe Lidu. Once you burn up that, order some Old Eynsford and find out what real BP does. Elephant will work, but it is weak and fouls something fierce.

-Nobade

[BigAl52]

I agree with Nobade. Elephant fouls somthing terrible. I like the swiss the best of all I have tried. Shot 44-40 in a levergun and it was definitly fun. Has a sound all of its own. You might want to pick up a copy of Shooting Leverguns of the Old West by Mike Venturino. Lots of good BP info in there. Al

[TXGunNut]

Might as well load up some BP loads for that 25-20 while you're at it, Daniel...it is a BP cartridge after all. Never used Elephant but I've had loads of fun with $wi$$, KIK and just loaded a few rounds with OE tonight. Front sight may be a bit tall for BP loads on that 92 but it'll be fun. For cleaning I just turn the rifle over so stuff falls out when the jag clears the chamber, not into the action. A few drops of dish soap and hot water works for cleaning brass, just decap first. I dry them in the oven or this time of year, out in the sun. When dry I toss them in the tumbler because I like shiny things. ;-)
Got moose milk?

[Bullshop Junior]

I don't have a tumbler. Or a cleaning rod. The front sight on all my lever guns are too short so maybe black loads will be right.

[w30wcf]

Like the fellows said Elephant is the worst fouling b.p. Olde Enysford and. Swiss are the best. After a few rounds I would suggest shooting a smokeless round or two to help clear the fouling. For future loadings I would suggest 10% of 2400 or 4227 or similar powders in first followed by the black to keep fouling to a minimum.


Have fun!
w30wcf!

[Springfield]

How do you clean any of your rifles if you don't own a cleaning rod?

[Bullshop Junior]

I don't. I just don't shoot jacketed.

[SSGOldfart]

Make yourself a blow tube too.and use it

[mold maker]

When your really hooked, look at making your own BP, and really shooting on the cheap.

[Bullshop Junior]

I've looked at it but I'm not sure if it's a good idea for me.