Fifth round 60 gr CCI cased Swags 200 Yards.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Well this was a dissappointment! Great lookin bullets, best day I've shot on-5 mph wind!
And I shot this group![smilie=b: I took extra care to ensure all shots broke on target the two off papers were without a doubt bullet induced.

Test results:

Rem cases: Easy to derim, consistant lengths, easy to form nice bullets with. Groups well .
Federal cases: Harder to derim, inconsistant lengths, more cleaning required, forms bullets well. Shot the best group at 200.
Win cases: Easy to derim- seem to be thinner brass then all others, dirty reqiured more cleaning then all others. Very inconsistant lengths. Shot well.
CCI cases: Not as hard as Federal to derim but not as easy as the Rems/Wins. Very consistant lengths, forms nice bullets, brass seems to be the thickest of all of them. Grouping was a big dissappiontment.

Well there you go take the info for what you will. It's been fun so far, always good to pull the trigger. Especially on rounds you create yourself.
107238

[R.Ph. 380]

Hey, not a bad grouping, 20 gauge right?.............................hehehe

Just takes work, maybe a grain either way? Who knows?

Bill

[Gunnut 45/454]

Bill
Yes tayloring the load could improve the grouping. But that wasn't the point of the test. We make bullets- they are not just plinkers suitiable for only paper at 50 -100 yards. If I want that type of firearm I'll stick with a 22LR.

[fredj338]

In theory, if they'll shoot 1moa @ 100, they should be still flying true to shoot 2moa @ 200. I'm still gonna give it the good old college try on a good low wind day. Stay with it. I'm happy with god 100yd bullets, but it would be nice to know I could stretch that to 200.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Fred
And folks forget an AR is not a 1MOA firearm. They can be , but most are 3-4MOA! So 6-8" grouping at 200 yards is more likely then not. This is why the Military considers the effective range of the AR system at point targets to 300m.

[303british.com]

Bill
Yes tayloring the load could improve the grouping. But that wasn't the point of the test. We make bullets- they are not just plinkers suitiable for only paper at 50 -100 yards. If I want that type of firearm I'll stick with a 22LR.

Help me out here. You did not work up these loads. There was some wind and you shot at 200yd. I take it that your AR doesn't like CCI cases for bullet jackets? Bullets made from 22LR cases are like bullets from different commercial manufacturers. From your rifle, some will shoot well, and others won't. Do you have targets shot using the other company's cases?

[fredj338]

Fred
And folks forget an AR is not a 1MOA firearm. They can be , but most are 3-4MOA! So 6-8" grouping at 200 yards is more likely then not. This is why the Military considers the effective range of the AR system at point targets to 300m.

Well that & the terminal performance is pretty minimal & lets not forget wind drift. I am amazed how much the wind shifts even the 69gr match bullets @ 300yds, enough to miss a man sized target!
My 20" hvy is MOA with Federal GMM or equiv handloads. It is what I test my swaged bullets in as well, & shoots 1.25MOA on good days. I just haven't had a good wind say to test them @ 200, forget 300.

[Gunnut 45/454]

303
Yes I had worked up a load, 25 gr IMR4895. I used it as the standard to show how the 60 gr bullet made from the four major brands of 22 LR cases would shoot in my AR past 100 yards as I didn't see any info on it. Your right different bullets will shoot differently from the same rife. As for the other targets see my other threads here.

[303british.com]

Well, assuming that the bullets were put together the same way, you can write off the AR when using CCI jackets - unless they're only used for spray and pray. You'll have to assemble a bunch made from what shoots the best.

[Gunnut 45/454]

303
Yea of the four brands the Feds shot the best in that wt. Rems were second and the Wins were third. In 55gr versions Rems seemed to shine in this AR. I've done a few 52 ,53 gr versions but not enough to find the brand it likes best. In 40-45 gr with shorts I've only had Win cases to work with good groups but nothing great- lets say useable. My 1:7" twist AR seems to like 64 gr and above. And 64 gr is the limit for 22 LR's atleast with my dies. I do have a bunch of 22 mag cases I just got back from a member here to do the heavies 69-75gr! Done some 69-70 gr so far just haven't had the time to get them going yet.

[Lizard333]

How critical are you with your core seating?? I've found that I can shootist of the jackets, federal excluded, into sub 3/4 inch groups as long as I did my part. I don't do Federal jackets right now because of two different weights of the jackets. Sorting by headstamp is pain enough, let alone weighing each jacket.

[Gunnut 45/454]

LIZARD333
I clean them, derim clean again,weight case and core, trim core to get desired wt, seat core,trim to length then form point clean again then load. My core mold allows me to cast them pretty close to wt-ie it's adjustable.
My bullets are within +.1 gr of wt so everything I make ie 60 gr is 60gr +.1 or exactly 60gr! Which is better then most bulk commercial bullets.

[Lizard333]

My question is specific. How are you seating your cores. This step is crucial to getting your bullets to fly. I personally spend more time on core seating than any other step. I've seen videos of guys blowing through the core seating step as though it's a waste of time, very quickly. Not saying you are, but the results your getting are leading me to believe your core seating procedure should be examined. So how are you core seating? How are you determining that you seated your core correctly? I am using a set of RCE dies so his procedure might not be the same for your dies.

Here's something else to consider. Have you tried using the jackets with cores that have a combined weight of only 55 grains??

Do you have any pics if your finished bullets??

[plus1hdcp]

@Lizzard333 - Thank you for your questions throughout this series of bullet trials and Gunnut 45/454 for starting the discussion. I am trying to improve my processes and am intrigued by Lizzards questions regarding core seating as I am afraid my techniques could use improvement. Lizzard - could you explain your procedure as mine is one of trying to move at a rhythmic pace but there has to be more which I can do.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Lizard333
Well heck I get my core /case weight to within .1gr of the wt desired. My Corbin set I have is where Turn the case up which puts the open end on the push rod and push it into the seating die. I give it a good push to seat the core. This generally depending on the case used seats it about .130" deep in the case. When the point is formed the lead comes up just below the opening of the HP when trimmed to .690".
107522

[Reload3006]

getting good accurate bullets out of rim-fire cases is tedious. Lizard is correct core seating is critical as is core swaging even if you cast your cores to with in +/- .1 grain. its the solidity of the core that is critical for accuracy. casting a core to a weight is really not good enough if you are wanting match grade bullets. Swaging the core to the correct weight sometimes even swaging it twice to achieve the correct core weight is key because you are squeezing all the air pockets out of the core. Next in importance is core seating and making sure that you are solidly seating your core. The only way to do this is with a micrometer that reads in ten-thousandths of an inch for a .224 bullet when seating the cores you should be measuring just above the base and getting about .2238. some people call this the pressure ring for consistent accurate bullets you need to do this step slowly to allow air to escape the jacket and core if not you will be trapping air pockets that cause imbalance and inaccuracy. IMO point forming is the least critical step. then to aid in accuracy you need to trim the meplat of your bullet I use a sinclair but there are many more out there. Hope this helps.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Reload3006
I do select my cores with out defects, seat them slowly. I don't have a squirt die nor a melplate trimmer. Checked my swags against store bought bullets and they are very close .224" My micrometer doesn't do .0001 measurements! Best guestimate would be .2244ish"swags with the commercials at .2242-3".

[williamwaco]

UUuuhhhh?

You don't mention sights?

How does that same load shoot with commercial bullets? Say - Sierra or Hornady ???

[Gunnut 45/454]

williamwaco
The AR used was scoped with a fixed 4X, fine I'll load up some 60 gr Vmax and shoot them at 200 yards.

[Prospector Howard]

Now it's making more sense. A 4 power scope at 200 yds? With the two scopes I have that are 4 power, the cross hairs would pretty much cover the target at 200 yds. Kind of hard to shoot tight groups like that. By the way, of all the things that are making a difference for me in making more accurate bullets; weight seems to be the most important. The heavier 67 to 68 gr soft points I'm making now shoot much better than the 57 gr hollow points I used to make. There was a discussion on this awhile back and the member 303British made some good points as to why the heavier bullets tend to shoot better. The thought was that it partly has to do with the amount of bore riding area on the bullet. The lighter bullets with a long ogive have very little bore riding surface and as the bullet starts accelarating down the barrel you'll get more yaw with the lighter bullets than with the heavier bullets with less ogive area. That was my thought also, and the testing I've done with heavier bullets with a shorter 4 ojive supports the idea. You might try heavier ones and see if that makes any difference for you.

[Gunnut 45/454]

williamwaco/Howard
So here's the same AR with 4x shooting the 60 gr VMAX- Now I weight these bullets as well average wt 60.4grs ! Which gave me a 4" group at 200 yards which comes out to 4 MOA . Not bad for a GI triggered Franken AR off sand bags on the tail gate!:D

107847

Added for your enjoyment first 69 gr Swag loads at 200 yards! Nothing special a lot of work to be done. A work in progress.8-)
107848

[williamwaco]

A four inch group at 200 yards is approximately 2MOA.

I agree that is certainly not bad for the firearm and conditions used.

And it is an indication that you need to work on your home swagged bullets.

But NOW you have a goal to "Shoot" for.