Steyr M95 8x56R Straight Pull

[ukrifleman]

I am thinking of adding one of these rifles to my collection and would be grateful for any information/guidance in what to look out for, as well as information on cast loads for it.

Many thanks,

ukrifleman.

[Dan Cash]

Mine is marked with an M (modified?) and is chambered for 8x57 mauser and modified so that the enbloc clip is not needed. I have not developed a cast load for it as the throaat is quite large and I do not have a large enough bullet yet. The rifle does very will with some WWII vintage ammo. It is a pleasant rifle to shoot as the stock seems well designed. Only thing I can think of to watch for is a worn out "bolt track" or guide where the bottom of the bolt is guided into the receiver.

[ukrifleman]

Mine is marked with an M (modified?) and is chambered for 8x57 mauser and modified so that the enbloc clip is not needed. I have not developed a cast load for it as the throaat is quite large and I do not have a large enough bullet yet. The rifle does very will with some WWII vintage ammo. It is a pleasant rifle to shoot as the stock seems well designed. Only thing I can think of to watch for is a worn out "bolt track" or guide where the bottom of the bolt is guided into the receiver.

Thanks Dan,
I will add this information to my list of things to watch out for.

ukrifleman.

[birddog1148]

I hear the extractors break easy and are hard to find. Mine seems to shoot ok.

[Wayne Smith]

Extractors are unobtanium and do break if loaded singly. You need at least one clip, this is a Mannlicher style magazine - it drops out the bottom when you chamber the last round. Brass and bullets are available through Graff's. The best boolit is the Oldfeller Frankenstein.

[Uncle Grinch]

I seem to remember one the Buckshot had that was rebarreled to 30-40 Krag. They are "different" than your traditional bolt action rifles. Maybe that's why they intrigue me.

[ukrifleman]

Thanks guys for the information, the extractor thing seems to be a common phenomenon with Mannlicher charging systems.

My M91 Carcano is similar in this respect.

ukrifleman

[zuke]

I do believe Hornady is making/made ammo for it. Buy 5 box's and you'll have brass for awhile.

[Brett Ross]

Graff stocks privi brass. I use the lee c338-220-1r boolit and it shoots well. My bore is .332, so I size .334 shoots well for me. Knowing what I do now would use Char Gar' s method for determing boolit size. On a side note. These make a fine deer rifle, light and accurare and fast follow up shot, thoug I have never needed one.

[keyhole]

I have had the full length rifle version for about 20 years. After shooting about 500 rds of German marked 1938 surplus FMJ, the stock has developed several cracks which I am dealing with now. The recoil with this ammo is significant, so went to cast a couple of years ago. The bullet I use is from Lee mold C329-205-1R, which is designed specifically for the 8 X 56R cartridge. I size mine 0.329 and lube with Lee Alox. A number of posters in other threads feel that 0.329 is too small but ammo made with this bullet work fine in my rifle. I never bothered to slug the bore, since bullet sizing 0.329 seems to be the right size for my rifle. Accuracy is the same as the military surplus. I only shoot offhand. At 100 yards, the Lee bullet made with linotype and 23.5 grains of AA 5744 keeps them in a 6" circle if I do my part. Bench groups would no doubt be better. Recoil is mild and very pleasant.
Some references I have seen about rifles which were rechambered to 8mm Mauser suggest that this conversion is not safe. I am only repeating what I have read elsewhere. I do not have any personal knowledge of safety of this conversion.
The original chambering for this rifle was 8 X 50R. Rifles rechambered to 8 X 56R have a large "S" stamped on top of the receiver. This was an arsenal conversion. Mine was built in 1915 and has the large "S".
Good luck

[bnelson06]

Fun rifle. I like the look people get when they see how the action works, the straight pull seems scary to them for some reason.

[ukrifleman]

Thanks for the input guys, I have done the deal and should be taking possession shortly.

Keyhole's load of the Lee bullet and 23 gn of 5744 was just what I had in mind, it works well in my M1892 Berthier Artillery carbine and seems like a good place to start.

ukrifleman.

[RPRNY]

I too am intrigued by this rifle. It looks ideal as a faux Scout Rifle. I rather think an inexpensive Red Dot would be preferable to a scout scope however.

PPV makes good ammo in this caliber and en bloc clips are available from several Internet sources.

[Dan Cash]

...............................
Some references I have seen about rifles which were rechambered to 8mm Mauser suggest that this conversion is not safe. I am only repeating what I have read elsewhere. I do not have any personal knowledge of safety of this conversion. ............................

I believe those warnings are in reference to the early version of this rifle with the tipping lug under the bolt. I do not recall what the nomenclature is for that model.

[Charley]

Yes, the 1888 Model was/is a BP rifle, the 88/90 was for a semismokeless cartridge. The later 1895, with locking lugs, instead of the tipping block wedge, are considerably stronger rifle, quite a few were converted to 8x57JS in WWII.

[gew98]

The M95 was made in 8x50 and after WW1 most in service were rechambered to 8x56. If you manage to chamber 8x56 ammo in an 8x50 and walk away from it consider yourself lucky. Not as many as one would think were rebuilt to handle 8mm mause ( rimless ) and original spare extractors for any variant just do not exhist anymore. I had an M35 Hungarian and an M43 , both fun to shoot but the M43 easier to feed since it was 8mm mauser caliber.

[farmallcrew]

check to see which caliber getting to you know what ammo to look for. There is still a good supply of surplus ammo at gun shows for 8x50 an 8x56r, but the 8x50 is a little harder to find. Reloading dies are molds are a little hard to come by but every now and then some come up for sale.

embloc clips are farily cheap on gunbroker, i got a bunch that are Nazi marked, and a bunch of surplus ammo that is Nazi as well.

Ive had 4 of 8x56r Steyr, love them all, have not had any problems with any of them. Cheap surplus gun, but does a number on your shoulder

[Finnmike]

I have a very nice 95/34 over on Gunboards now - it is not a pleasant carbine at all to shoot with full-power ammo. It kicks me hard enough to make my upper jaw sore for a day or two. Last year I found a uncut long rifle in 8x56 at RCBS - mint bore and gorgeous stock. It too kicks the snot out of me. I even pulled some rounds and reduced them by 20% and they now approach tolerable levels of pain. This is a rifle that separates the girls from the boys, for certain.

[Dschuttig]

If you are thinking about adding one of these to your collection consider afew things...
A. Bore condition. They pop up on gunbroker all the time, so hold out untill you find one with a nice bore. I have several with brand new barrels. Some of them have barrels that are beyond shot out.
B. Bore diameter - can vary all over the place.I have an original long rifle with original WWI Barrel that comes in at just under .329 and shoots the lee bullet well. Others are above .331, and I have heard of rifles with bores over .334, although I have never personally had one this big.
C. Do you want to reload for it? 8x56r is still around, but sells for about $1/round with the clips. 8x50r has dried up all the way around. Coming from a guy that has several guns in both calibers,I will tell you that 8x56r is much, MUCH easier to load for. The 8x50r uses a ,323 dia 244 GR round nose bullet with a flat base. No one, to the best of my knowledge makes this. Cast bullets are difficult at best, because the bore diameter remains the same between the two, at ,329-,334. When the rifles were recut for 8x56r the chamber and throats were opened up to allow a bullet of proper diameter to be chambered. Not so with the 8x50r, as a bullet over about ,326 will not chamber without turning the necks to the point of almost being to thin. Brass can be formed for the 8x50r by simply shortening and forming 8x56r. some use 7,62x54r, but the base is smaller than the austrian cartridges.
D. Dies - Cheap lee dies are available for x56r, but x50r is special order ($$$)

I am running a group buy for the oldfeller frankenstien mold, but it seems to be forever getting miha to make it.

Regards, Dan

[Wayne Smith]

I thought NOE got the design from Bruce?

[keyhole]

As mentioned in an earlier posting on this thread, I have a M95 in 8 X 56R. It took some work to fix some extensive cracking in the stock, so today was the first time I have fired it in a couple of years.
Bullet is the Lee 329-205-1R specifically made for this cartridge. It was cast of linotype, sized 0.329, Hornady gas check applied, and coated with Alox. Bullets were sorted into two groups- 197 and 199 grains. The spread is probably from my casting technique.
Powder is 23.5 grains Accurate 5744.
Primer Win Large Rifle



109926109927
I shot over the Chrony at 50 yds. Average velocity for 15 shots was 1625, std deviation 14.3. Of the 15 shots the lowest velocity was 1599,1642 the highest. Above are the 2 best groups. A target not shown had holes all in the black but a couple were in the 9 ring. The group on the right target is about 1 1/2". I was really pleased.

This target is 100 yds, fired offhand. Those in the 8 ring are operator error. I cannot see the sights very well for more than a few seconds. The heavy trigger pull does not help with good offhand groups.
109928

Here's some photos of the old girl on the rest. The other is shooting glasses on my chronograph. On a previous Chrony, I had a gas check come off and ruin the screen. I am not sure that the safety glasses would stop a gas check at 1600 fps, but fortunately no checks came off .
109929109930109931

Overall, I was very pleased.

Thanks for looking.

Keyhole

[ukrifleman]

112210112211112212

I finally got around to posting some photos of my M95 `stutzen`

I have loaded some test rounds with the Lee 205gn .329 bullet and 23.5gn of Lovex DO60 (5744)(thanks keyhole) with a c.o.a.l. of 2.810, allowing for a 0.015 jump and hope to try them out next week.

Range report to follow.

ukrifleman.

[Buckshot]

............Did'ja take those pictures in your sauna? :-) Hope it shoots as well as it looks!

.............Buckshot

[sthwestvictoria]

There was an interesting podcast on the M96, presented by Ian McCollum from Forgottenweapons. The segment is within the excellent gunnation podcast:
http://www.gunnation.us/2014/06/6-4-2014episode102-armed-but-not-polite.html

[ukrifleman]

[smilie=l:
............Did'ja take those pictures in your sauna? :-) Hope it shoots as well as it looks!

.............Buckshot

LOL, Not a sauna, my new shed!

Range report to follow.

ukrifleman.

[keyhole]

[QUOTE=Buckshot;2876443]............Did'ja take those pictures in your sauna? :-) Hope it shoots as well as it looks!

.............Buckshot[/QUOTE

Thought the same thing about it looking like a sauna. You have a beautiful shed.

Will be curious what sight setting gets your stutzen zeroed. On my rifle, the ladder is up and the sight on the 600 meter setting. Zero is just about perfect using 6 o'clock hold at 100 yards on SR-1 target center shown in previous posting.

[ukrifleman]

[QUOTE=Buckshot;2876443]............Did'ja take those pictures in your sauna? :-) Hope it shoots as well as it looks!

.............Buckshot[/QUOTE

Thought the same thing about it looking like a sauna. You have a beautiful shed.

Will be curious what sight setting gets your stutzen zeroed. On my rifle, the ladder is up and the sight on the 600 meter setting. Zero is just about perfect using 6 o'clock hold at 100 yards on SR-1 target center shown in previous posting.


My shed and I thank you!!

Re-the zero, I have been having a similar conversation with a guy on a UK forum, we both have taller fore-sight blades fitted.

Apparently, the stutzen conversions retained the original rear sight, but had taller fore-sight blades (11.5mm) to enable the rifles to be used at shorter ranges by police etc.

I assume your rifle also has the taller blade, hence the results you are getting at 100 yards.

I will find out next week where the POA/POI on mine pans out, but I suspect similar to yours.

ukrifleman

[keyhole]

112436
ukrifleman,

The height of the front sight is, best as I can tell, 0.237". Sorry, I don't have any metric measuring tools fine enough for this type of measurement. This was measured at the rear, highest point of the blade to the base of the blade.

Hope this helps.

keyhole

[wallenba]

Use the Enbloc every time. Hand feeding will eventually fatigue the extractor. If it breaks, you won't find one. Some stores I found them in did not have the Enblocs with the rifle. Numrich's has them, buy a bunch. Best mold I have found is a specific 8x56r http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=33-235B-D.png The 'C' version has a plain base. Seating is still a problem with mine, they are not straight. I'm going to try a 338 M die next. Will have to shorten the die body first. Also, It's cheaper and easier to get reloadable brass by buying the PRV loaded ammo.

Don't remove the bolt without first learning the 'dime trick' first, or make a tool. It can be a bear to get back in sometimes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXOSGRXguXM

[zuke]

112436
ukrifleman,

The height of the front sight is, best as I can tell, 0.237". Sorry, I don't have any metric measuring tools fine enough for this type of measurement. This was measured at the rear, highest point of the sight to the base of the blade.

Hope this helps.

keyhole

Where did you get the newer front sight?

[keyhole]

Where did you get the newer front sight?
----------------
It was on the rifle when I bought it in the late 80's. The rifle was on consignment in a small gun store. I know nothing of its history, unfortunately. The people in the gun store had no idea what it was.

Sorry I don't have better information.

[ukrifleman]

Steyr range report,

I shot the M95 for the first time today and was pleased with the result.

Although the trigger was heavy and a bit rough, I was knocking down fig 11 targets (E silhouettes)
at 200 yards with keyhole's suggested load of 23.5gn of 5744 and the Lee 8x56 bullet.

My hold was POA with the sights down, plus a bit of Kentucky windage, all in all a successful first outing.

Thanks keyhole for the load info.

ukrifleman.

[keyhole]

[QUOTE=

Thanks keyhole for the load info.

ukrifleman.[/QUOTE]
----------------
ukrifleman,

It's great that the load worked out well for you. My rifle shoots slightly to the right but I'm not sure I can drift the front sight in small enough increments to make the tiny adjustment necessary. I'll just do the Kentucky windage like you. If you have fired any of the military surplus ammo, the Lee/5744 load is much more comfortable and I think just as accurate. It's easier to shoot because you are not anticipating getting pounded from the recoil. This is one of the few things I've recently experienced that was a win/win in all aspects.

I have 100 pcs of brass in the tumbler getting ready to load up some more of this same load.

The trigger on mine is heavy and rough too. it goes with the territory apparently.

Good luck in future shooting with your stutzen.

keyhole

[ukrifleman]

Mine also shoots to the right, so it seems they both perform the same with cast.

Not sure if I can live with that trigger though! I might just have to see if I can improve it.

I am going to adjust the fore-sight blade to see if I can get POA/POI next time on the range.

On the strength of the rifle's performance with the Lee 8x56R bullet, I ordered a mould and another 100 cases when I got back from the range yesterday.

All in all, a fun rifle to shoot.

ukrifleman.

[1johnlb]

I just picked up my forth m95 yesterday and am yet to shoot it. My first three shot best with the Harris 13 grs redot load. My first was a beautiful rifle with a sewer pipe for a barrel and each one has gotten a little better bore each time. The one I got yesterday has a new with crisp rifling in it. I have high expectations for it. The triggers vary greatly from extremely stiff grainy and gritty. A little polishing helps a lot on the shear faces, they are extremely rough. Needless to say I sold the sewer pipe and explained it thoroughly in the post but the guy didn't seem to care one bit.

[acsteve]

They where a good deal at $100
but have not seen them so cheap In a long while
extractors are availiable periodically ebay $30
do not load without the required clips and the extractors should not get broken
They don't recoil too bad, not like I have heard
bores are often dark and worn
poor sites and difficult to scope unless u find a way to adapt a myosin mag to the gun and eliminate the enblock clips
wish I had bought more but the $300 often asked is way high
my bores are .329 .331 .334 all slugg sized and measured with micrometer

triggers are poor and would require patience to improve
a machinist with tools would have a fun project

large chambers excessively stretch brass
i do like them though

[NuJudge]

The Berdan brass reloads very nicely, if you have the Berdan primers.

[Buckshot]

..............I have Berdan primers ..........now :-), but before those came my way I converted all that old military stuff to 209 shotshell primers years ago. When Graf & Son got the PP boxer stuff I was all over it! I had a 01 FFL from 1982 until 2001 and my first ever M95 was $39 from Century Arms. I forget now what I was calling about but the saleman mentioned they had some really nice ones (I really hadn't paid any attention to them before) so I told him to include one with my order.

It is really a shame that they are saddled with the very odd chamber/barrel dimensions. I'm reminded of a portion of a Hemingway story about the Spanish Civil War where a group was supposed to get some Austrian M95's. Probably rifles? In any event one of the soldiers wasn't joining in with the excitement of the others. When asked about it he said it was no big deal as you couldn't hit anything with them, even if you tried. Don't know where his previous experience came from :-)

They were fairly cheap for some time and I'd bought one from Big 5 Sporting Goods, and it had a sewer pipe barrel. I re-barreled it to 30-40 Krag and it was, and IS a shooting SOB.

http://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/FE72A73E5D9F8EC/standard.jpg

I don't recall if I'd posted some pics to this thread before of the conversion, but if I did please forgive me. If not, here are a few. With a good barrel and chamber dimensions there are no flies on the action. Probably other then the 30-40 Krag, the .303 Brit would also be a likely candidate for a slick feeding rifle. Just a simple mod is required to the packet clip. Of course the simplest would be the Russian 7.62x54. Not a whole lot you can do to the trigger, as it's rather complicated. In any event you can sure end up with a very fine shooting rifle!

A few years back I took it to one of the NCBS meets and let a friend try it out. Once he got the hang of the action he slapped the bolt to and fro, firing off rounds as quick as you please with nary a bobble or jam. I swear he had 3 empties in the air as he fired the last round.

..............Buckshot

PS: Please don't laugh at the checkering as it was my very first attempt!

[1johnlb]

I was planning on rebarreling the sewer pipe to a 54r, if it didn't sale. Wish I had stole the wood off it though. Anybody tried sizing down any 9mm for a light plinker. So far I am pushing them thru a 334 sizer and its taking the grease groove off. Might make a good PC but its to stiff a push.

[Brett Ross]

I like mine, light and easy to carry. The barrel is rough on mine also, but it will shoot a 3 shot group inside 2" at 100 yds. Funny thing is the trigger is not bad, low number rifle with much wear. I took a deer last year with it at about 60 yds one shot through both lungs . The load was Lee C338-220-1R sized .334 (thanks buckshot for the sizer) and 18.5G 2400. This was to be my Deer rifle from now on but alas Iowa eliminated the only season I was able to use a rifle so she is now retired, after one successful season. Fun rifle to shoot cast, one of my favorite mil-surps.
Tony