Problems with a Uberti El Patron

[bubbapug1]

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/photoofstep_zps42d6a3cb.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/bubbapug1/media/photoofstep_zps42d6a3cb.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/photoofstephighlighted_zpsdb4287b0.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/bubbapug1/media/photoofstephighlighted_zpsdb4287b0.jpg.html)

I picked up a El Patron new a few weeks back. I took it to the range to check loads and had some trouble with it locking up. The range was a bit dark and I was in a hurry so I let it go. Last week I tried the pistol outdoors and it refused to cycle if held more than 5 degrees over level, such as the gun will be orientated while pulling the hammer back.

I noticed the gun cycled fine as long as the barrel was pointed downward while being cocked.

Closer inspection at the home led me to discover there is a sharp step in the frame, and the cartridge cases are catching on that step and locking up the action. I looked at my rugers (new Vaquero and Vaquero) and noticed the step on their frames was ramped, not squared off like the Uberti.

The question I have for the board is what should I do? I called Uberti and am waiting for a reply. I'd like to get them to fix the step, as in bevel it. I suppose I could take a diamond file to the frame and bevel it myself, but its a new gun, and the finish may get ruined.

Is this a problem I should just accept, or was this gun not properly detailed to allow it to function correctly?

[Tar Heel]

Is it the cases getting hung up or are the primers getting grabbed. Are you shooting handloads in the gun or factory ammo? See if you are getting a groove engraved on the case head. That may actually be from the firing pin hole with a burr on it. Both of my Uberti's have the step you indicated and both had a burr at the firing pin hole preventing rotation until I stoned it off.

107078

[littlejack]

Hey Bubba:
I just went and looked at my Uberti saa. Although it is a Evil Roy model, there still shouldn't be that step, or at least that deep
of a step on your handgun. With that being said, my Uberti DOES have that step, but not near as deep as yours does. Mine
looks to be about one third as much (deep) as yours. These shoulders look to be from the milling process in the frame. They
were machined too deep at that point in the frame.
I guess now, you have to make the decision to either send it back to the manufacturer, take it to a gunsmith, or try to do it
yourself.
All the best with your problem.
Regards
Jack

[littlejack]

It looks as though there is a shoulder below the one you have indicated. This would be the other side of the cutter when it went
through to make the cut.
That is strange, mine does NOT have the lower step that yours has.
If the head of the case will set in the milled slot, the case will set back, and cause a failure to rotate.

[bubbapug1]

I hit it with a diamond file. I took off perhaps 0.003". That was enough to do it although it's now bright metal on the edge. Ridiculous that a new gun would need filing to work.

I'll stick with Rugers from now on.

To answer the primer question the cases stuck with new factory ammo, fired factory ammo, new unfired cases, and deprimed cases.

It was a big sharp step.

[Tar Heel]

I'll stick with Rugers from now on.It was a big sharp step.

I've had a lot of issues with Rugers too lately. Sent both of the last two back to Ruger. Seems QC is lagging everywhere now days.

[BruceB]

Just a couple months ago, I bought a new Ruger LC9 semi-auto 9mm carry gun.

It has now had several hundred rounds through it, and is working perfectly.

Well finished, well fitted, reliable. Nothing wrong with the Ruger quality control with this one.

[shoot-n-lead]

My Cattleman, ( early 90's) came from the factory just like that. I filed it down and it has never been an issue again.

I agree, it should not come like that.

Although, I bought a new 45acp/45colt stianless convertible Blackhawk last July and it had to have something similar done to it. It locked up right out of the box on the first range trip.

Stuff happens.

[bubbapug1]

The trigger is pretty rough with a lot of creep for a single action revolver, but that's a whole other thread. I was expecting something more along the lines of the pietta's I bought for black powder which functioned well if the ramming levers didn't break!!

[jmort]

Every revolver I get, especially single actions, gets an action job. Everything needs to be "blue-printed" and the factory will not get you there. My most recent .357 Blackhawk went right from the FFL to the gunsmith within an hour, just yesterday. I will not see it for four months, but I am more patient in my old age. I have no doubt when I get it back, it will be sweet. Timing, honing, squaring, and getting tolerances right, all make for a revolver worth shooting.

[35 Whelen]

I hit it with a diamond file. I took off perhaps 0.003". That was enough to do it although it's now bright metal on the edge. Ridiculous that a new gun would need filing to work.

I'll stick with Rugers from now on.

To answer the primer question the cases stuck with new factory ammo, fired factory ammo, new unfired cases, and deprimed cases.

It was a big sharp step.

I agree, the step is a bit much but certainly an easy fix. I own five Uberti's and two Rugers; a NM Blackhawk .44 Special and a NM Vaquero 45 Colt. The ONLY reason I bought the Rugers was because they would handle stouter loads than the Uberti's. At the time I though I needed stouter loads for hunting. (I was wrong) The Blackhawk wasn't too bad, but the Vaquero was maddening to get it the way I wanted it. Had the cylinders reamed, replaced the high-spurred hammer, worked over the trigger pull, installed a spring kit, replaced the grips and last fired over 70 barrel lapping rounds through it...this all over the course of several months.

On the other hand, I can go through the innards of a Uberti and have it slick as glass in about 1/2 hour, closer to 45 minutes if the trigger needs work and I've never had to mess with the cylinder throats on mine or any I've done for others.

I agree the step in the frame was an oversight on Uberti's QC, but still, overall I find the Uberti's much better right out of the box.

35W

[Tar Heel]

I agree, the step is a bit much but certainly an easy fix. I own five Uberti's and two Rugers; a NM Blackhawk .44 Special and a NM Vaquero 45 Colt. The ONLY reason I bought the Rugers was because they would handle stouter loads than the Uberti's. At the time I though I needed stouter loads for hunting. (I was wrong) The Blackhawk wasn't too bad, but the Vaquero was maddening to get it the way I wanted it. Had the cylinders reamed, replaced the high-spurred hammer, worked over the trigger pull, installed a spring kit, replaced the grips and last fired over 70 barrel lapping rounds through it...this all over the course of several months.

On the other hand, I can go through the innards of a Uberti and have it slick as glass in about 1/2 hour, closer to 45 minutes if the trigger needs work and I've never had to mess with the cylinder throats on mine or any I've done for others.

I agree the step in the frame was an oversight on Uberti's QC, but still, overall I find the Uberti's much better right out of the box.

35W

While I would like to champion the American QC over the imports, I have to agree with all of the above. My last RBH would fail in machine shop class in high school. Tool marks, tool stops, grips are WAY oversize, backstrap has a .10" lip at the frame junction, trigger not polished, and sights are not regulated properly. The 22/45 could not be disassembled without a maul and even after I sent it back for correction, I had to take a file & stone to it to get it to disassemble. Tool marks and tool stops are evident all over the inside of the barrel assembly and the bolt looks raw and unfinished.

I have had flaws on the Uberti BP revolvers and the SAA revolvers but NOT of the magnitude and quantity of the Rugers. Ultimately I think, the days of perfectly finished and polished firearms are over unless one can afford a hand-made English fowling piece or some other such work of art. With the high demand of firearms on the market today, we should be pleased we can even get them I suppose. A little work on them is what we will just have to accept in the new market place where craftsmanship has yielded to quantity.

[bubbapug1]

I should add Uberti got back to me in less than 24 hours asking for the gun to be returned for repair.

I bought the gun at a local shop which had a ruger NV and the el patron side by side. I went with the uberti because the Rugers grips were loose and oversized.

I wish I had the skills to make the revolvers function smooth as glass but they all seem to work pretty well as is. The uberti has a little creep in the trigger compared to the Rugers, smiths, and colts I own.

I'm not sure why you all are reaming out your cylinders, so a little explanation would help the ignorant (me) get a clue on how to tune up one of tgese guns to have it reach it's full potential.

[bedbugbilly]

Not that this has anything to do with your lack of a "bevel" - but just curious . . . what head stamp brass were you using? Did it do it with a variety of different head stamps?

[bubbapug1]

Yes all brass would lock it up from a variety of companies. The case would fall back out of the chamber and get stuck on the step. The step was large enough to catch anything going buy.

[BCRider]

I hate to say it but I'd chalk this up to the price point of Uberti. And the problems mentioned about Rugers? Same deal. Better quality control, better machine setup and monitoring and higher rejection rates all cost money. And the factory has to pass that along to us. Taken to the extreme we have the example of the old US Fire Arms and the currently still made Freedom Arms. Quality stuff at the premium price that such work costs when done in smaller numbers.

Then we have Pietta and Uberti on the other end of the scale. Decent enough at hotdog and KD prices. Or at least USUALLY decent enough. Now and then something like this sneaks through apparently.

If it's something easy to fix with a file or diamond hone and a bit of cold blue to touch it up then we pretty much should just sigh and do it.

[bubbapug1]

I'm happy with the uberti. It's also very beautiful. I have to think ubertis margins are way lower than lets say glock. The hand work and finish on their guns is more craftsman like than most mass produced guns.

I like and respect new modern guns but I must say I love the older stuff much more. I look on a minor problem with a gun as an opportunity to bond with it a bit as you tune it in. I don't the anyone at Uberti could have anticipated a small ledge shutting down a pistol. If the QC guy was my age and has vision like mine he probably couldn't have even seen it!!

Alls well that ends well. Put 60 rounds of 185 G SWC 's through it today.

Next step- regulating the sights as the gun shoots 3" low at 10 yards.

[littlejack]

That's easy, just take a little off the top of the front sight.

[oldbear1950]

I have to be honest, I picked up an Uberti EL PATRON, at a local pawn shop, have shot both factory and reloads, and have had no problems. Was used when I got it but not abused.
Not sure when it was made, will check and see. Have fired about 400 factory loads and about 100 reloads. Standard loads no heavy ruger loads, and do not intend too.

[Dan Cash]

I bought a Cimarron revolver in .32-20 some years ago that had the exact same problem. I don't usually advocate the use of the deadly Dremel tool but it fixed my problem.

[Green Frog]

I have owned two Uberti copies of the SAA, one from Navy Arms in 32-20 and the other from Taylor Arms in 45 Colt. Both had the in-house special tuning done here in the US by their respective distributors. This eliminated any possibility of the kind of problems experienced by the OP. While Navy Arms no longer sells these revolvers (AFAIK) the folks at Taylor offer their “Taylor Tuned” option for just about all of their various Uberti SAA models. If I were buying a new, “untested” revolver, that’s the route I would take.

Froggie

[Maven]

While I agree in the main with GF's advice (above), I think I send my gun to Goon's Gun Works for servicing. Btw, there's a current thread about the quality of Cimmaron v. Taylor's cap and ball revolvers on The Muzzle Loading Forum at present and it seems like both brands have QC problems. If the gun in question were mine, I'm fairly certain I'd send it to Goon.

[45 Dragoon]

Wow!! I appreciate that Maven !!

I've had to cut that ridge on Uberti's as well.
BTW, you can run 20K psi ammo in the Uberti's.

Mike

[elmacgyver0]

I have 2 Uberti Cattleman's and they both seem perfect, Guess I must be lucky!