1942 brass ?

[louism]

Any unusual danger in reloading WWII era 30-06 military brass? I do mean other than the normal risk associated with this hobby.

[Outpost75]

I use USGI .30 Cal. brass which has been fired with corrosive primers all.the time.
Decap and wash in hot water with detergent to positively remove any chlorate salts, then size, swage primer pockets and reload normally. I tie decapped brass into cloth laundry bags and clean in the washing machine.Does a great job. The quality of WW2 brass is better than the new stuff you buy. Dillon Auto-Swage 600 is what I use

[JeffinNZ]

Almost all of my .303 British brass is 1943 vintage Canadian DIZ. The brass is immortal and better quality than current production.

[dale2242]

I have been using some FA brass from the 20s and 30s in my M1.
It is working as well as any brass I use....dale

[Dale in Louisiana]

Noooooo! It's bad bad bad! Box it up and send it to me for proper disposal.

dale in Louisiana

[country gent]

You might consider annealing it to possibly remove some of the age harding that may have happened

[louism]

Thanks Dale,
That is a generous offer. It is nice that my neighbor is looking out for my well being.

[farmallcrew]

i use HXP and WW2 brass in my Garand. tumble and clean pockets. the brass lasts as long as my non military loads. you won't have a problem.

[Eddie2002]

Been resizing 30-06 Lake City blank brass from '43 and '54 for a 7.7 Jap and had some trouble to start with. I've had problems decapping the primers and found that I need to pop them out with a pin punch and hammer. The corrosive primers are fully crimped and were breaking the decapping pin on my RCBS die set. Even had two or three punch through the centers of the primers instead of coming out. The brass is so old that annealing really helps for resizing but once cleaned up and resized it works just fine.

[jonk]

Hell I have some brass from 1903-6 that I reload and use.

[louism]

Well use it I will. I will be reloading for my 43 Springfield garand. Should be a good match.

[WallyM3]

Mercury?

[lylejb]

Hell I have some brass from 1903-6 that I reload and use.

was that originally 30-03 brass?

[Buckshot]

...............Just to add to the conversation, many years back I was given a 3 gallon pail of once fired LC45 brass. I assume once fired as it retained the fired primers which were crimped. Back then I kept my brass dedicated to a particular firearm in batches of 20. I still keep it dedicated but now use rnd boxes. In any event I have several batches of 20 cases used in my Remington 1903A1 Springfield with over 30 firings apiece. All were cast lead loads and the majority were 24.0grs of IMR4198, and Dacron under the Lyman 311284.

Reloading consisted of the Lee Collet die, 'm' casemouth expander, with boolit seating and no crimp. On every 5th firing I'd anneal and then FL size. I have several batches of 20 with over 30 firings apiece. That's over 600 shots from each batch of 20! Primer pockets remain tight. I'll have to admit that early on (I acquired the brass in the 80's) I did have some loss as the brass was FL resized each time, and while I trimmed I didn't anneal. I also did not keep track of their firings. At some later date I began using 1" x 4" labels with 3 lines of data on ALL my rifle brass. Top was "Times Fired" middle line was "Trimmed" and the bottom line was "Annealed".

Each time they were fired the top line got a 'I' tic mark. At the 5th firing they were annealed so on the bottom line, directly under the tic mark on the top line, the bottom line got a 'I'. So for example at the 20th firing the label had 20 tic's on the top line, 4 tic's on the bottom line for "Annealing". The middle line for "Trimming" for example might have a tic mark under the 4th, 10th and 17th firing, as trimming was only done when case length dictated. It's an easy way for me to keep track of pertinent information.

For pistol brass I only keep track of firings. One thing has become very obvious to me so far as pistol cases go and that is nickel plated cases produce a far larger number of early failures before settling down then does regular brass cases.

...............Buckshot

[WallyM3]

It's gotten so that, in order to simplify life, nickle plated brass of all stripes goes into the recycle bin.

Virtually all of the deteriorated commercial cartridges I've encountered have exhibited their visible faults above the shoulder...with perhaps some staining around the primers. Some have shown none, but in pulling .348 Win from the '50s/60s ( for the brass to make .45-75 Win), the corrosion was evident on the bullets and brass portions that were within the case. Not to mention the powder came out in chunks, and with difficulty. Same true with a cousin batch of .33 Win.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've shot (and still have) .45 ACP made before WWI on Frankfort machinery (now rusting in Greece as I understand it).

I can draw no useful conclusions from the foregoing. Just passing on some experiences. BTW, some immediate post-WWII Belgian (FN) 9mm is still OK.

[jonk]

Some of it must have been. Back in 2001, I stopped in an antique store in Oshkosh, WI, and found 300 1930s FA stamped 30-06 brass for $8; 500 1903-1942 dated mixed brass that had been cut down to 8mm Mauser, some with the original unfired primers for $5; and some other assorted brass.

I actually fired those original primers, not one misfire. Knowing it could be mercuric and/or potassium chlorate, I scrubbed the snot out of the guns and boiled the brass after shooting.

With mainly cast lead loads, I've only had a few splits, which got recycled in to 7.65 Argentine brass. Have occasionally annealed some of it, but that's really not my thing.

Would probably be a lifetime supply of 06 and 8mm brass on its own, but of course, I've since acquired several thousand more that I am sitting on for a rainy day...

[Mark Daiute]

Been resizing 30-06 Lake City blank brass from '43 and '54 for a 7.7 Jap and had some trouble to start with. I've had problems decapping the primers and found that I need to pop them out with a pin punch and hammer. The corrosive primers are fully crimped and were breaking the decapping pin on my RCBS die set. Even had two or three punch through the centers of the primers instead of coming out. The brass is so old that annealing really helps for resizing but once cleaned up and resized it works just fine.

Whoah! Glad I read through this thread! I got a 5 gallon bucket of 30-06 brass and have been experiencing the exact same thing. The Brass is about 50/50 WWII brass of various headstamps and the other 50 percent is WRA 54 and RA (57?). Seems like the WWII brass is the worst offender in this regard.

[725]

I use it all the time. No problems.

[zuke]

That old brass is made better then the modern stuff, more pliable.
I have 30 box's of CIL 308 brass that's been once fired sitting in storage. Why am I not using it? I don't have a 308....

[3006guns]

For those who may not be aware......chlorate primers are what are referred to as "corrosive". They deposit potassium chlorIDE (salt) when ignited. This salt gets into every microscopic tool mark inside the bore and no amount ordinary oil will remove it......just water (or Hoppes). Oil thoroughly afterward and monitor the bore for the next few days.

Mercuric priming is another animal altogether. First of all NO ONE has made mercuric primed cartridges for at least 90 years or so...it's as obsolete as an Obama vote. Mercury will NOT hurt your bore. No, instead it gets blasted into the cartridge brass rendering it brittle and totally worthless for reloading.

So, that's the difference between "corrosive" and "mercuric" priming. We have it good these days!

[Outpost75]

The USGI primers post WW1 were nonmercuric, but corrosive. Cleaning in hot water and detergent removes the potassium chloride salts, then handle as you would any brass. They didn't figure out correct final stress relief for long term storage until the mid 1930s. Earlier cases may show neck splits from age hardening. I am using FA 34 and later with good results. If neck anneal color is visible it is OK.

[StratsMan]

They didn't figure out correct final stress relief for long term storage until the mid 1930s. Earlier cases may show neck splits from age hardening.

Well that explains something to me... I have unfired 30-06 "Guard" loads marked "FA 17", but one of them has a split neck...

[jimb16]

For those of you who want to save the brass that the primer punch knocked the bottom of the primer out of, you can try what works for me. Use a steel screw with a flat tip that is smaller than the primer pocket, but bigger than the inner dia. of the primer. Cut a very small notch in the end of the screw with a triangular file so the screw will be self threading. Turn the screw into the primer and it will back out the "shell" of the primer. Then just remove the primer from the screw with a pair of pliers and you are ready for the next damaged primer!

[SlamFire1]

I have a plastic detergent bucket full of WW2 unfired brass. I deprimed all of it as I did not want to fool with corrosive primers.

The primary consideration with old, loaded ammunition and the brass which contains old gunpowder is whether there are visible signs of corrosion. The shooting community is quite ignorant, and once informed, some absolutely deny, that gunpowder ages. This is from

Ammunition Surveillance Procedures SB 742-1

https://acc.dau.mil/adl/en-US/238111/file/68728/SB%20742-1%20AIN47-13A.pdf

Chapter 13 Propellant and Propelling Charges ,

page 13-1
WARNING
Nitrocellulose-based propellant can become thermally unstable as the age. The normal aging process of the propellants involves deterioration of the nitrocellulose with an accompanying generation of heat. At some point, the propellant may reach a state where heat is generated faster than it can be dissipated. The accumulation of heat can lead to combustion (autoignition). Chemical stabilizers are added to propellants to slow the aging process. In time, the stabilizer levels will drop to a point where the remaining effective stabilizer (RES) is not sufficient to prevent an accelerating rate of decomposition. When this point is reached, the propellant may autoigniet, with possible catastrophic results to property and life. Monitoring the stability level of each propellant lot is essential for continued safe storage.

Page 13-5 , Table 13.2 Propellant Stability Codes.

Stability Category A 0.30 or more Percent Effective Stabilizer
Acceptable stabilizer loss: safe for continued storage

C 0.29-0.20 Percent Effective Stabilizer

Significant stabilizer loss. Lot does not represent an immediate hazard, but is approaching a potentially hazardous stability condition. Loss of stabilizer does adversely affect function in an uploaded configuration. Disposition instructions will be furnished by NAR. All stability category “C” assests on the installation must be reported in writing…

One year after becoming stability category “C” a sample of the bulk propellant lot or the bulk-packed component lot will be retested. If the lot has not deteriorated to category “D”, it will be retested each year until it has been expended, or it has deteriorated to category “D”, at which point it will be demilitarized within 60 days.

D Less than 0.20 Percent Effective Stabilizer

Unacceptable stabilizer loss. Lots identified as stability category “D” present a potential safety hazard and are unsafe for continued storage as bulk, bulk-packed components , or as separate loading propellant chargers. Bulk propellant, bulk –packed components and separate loading propelling charges will be demilitarized within 60 days after notification of category “D” status.

Old gunpowder creates a lot of problems, in bulk, it autoignites. At least one ammunition dump at month blows up somewhere around the world. It will blow up your gun because of burn rate instability. Old gunpowder does not burn smoothly, it gets peaky, pressures spike, ka boom. As it ages it releases fuming red nitric acid gas. Fuming red nitric acid gas will corrode brass. Old gunpowder cracked the case necks on hundreds of 308 LC Match, I reloaded these cases with surplus 4895 and over 700 cases developed cracked case necks. Given time, that old gunpowder would have likely created pin hole through corrosion through the case sidewalls.

So, look inside the cases, are they shiny and bright?. If they are, go use them.