462420

[Lloyd Smale]

Anyone tried this in a marlin yet. Sure is a nice looking bullet but it looks awful long in the nose. Sure hope it will feed in my marlins!!

[dubber123]

Boomer says they will work in a Marlin, I have one of each version coming, for my new Cowboy, so I hope they feed too. I got the day off, so I was hoping they were here, but no go. Maybe tomorrow.

[pipehand]

I sure hope they work in the 1895, as that is what I ordered it for. I haven't loaded any to try, but my first casting session with the mould was today--filled more than half a shoebox with very pretty boolits. The nose is not a true flat- its ever so slightly convex, and I suspect that is why they dropped from the mould so easily. I am very impressed with the amount and quality of bullets I was able to produce. I was also surprised that the mould didn't develop hot spots or uneven frosting of the boolits. The nose does look long, but I won't be able to load and test any till next weekend.

[muffinman]

I have shot both the plain base and gc out of my guidegun, no problems.

[BABore]

Both designs were tested and shot in Marlins 4-5 months before the Lee molds were out. Work fine.

[threett1]

Cast some with mine yesterday. Got mine in a convoluted kind of way. A friend was in on the GB and sold his Marlin before the mold arrived. So seeing an opportunity I missed out on, I made a deal with him to buy it from him when it came in. Glad I did. Dropped some nice ones for me. Now if I can get my Guide Gun back from my buddy....

[threett1]

OK, question. I am basically using this mold as a 5 banger because my handles don't have enough "turning radius" to drop the inside cavity cleanly. The boolit keeps getting hung up dropping out. What say ye? Do a little hillbilly machining on the handles? They are Lees.

[dubber123]

OK, question. I am basically using this mold as a 5 banger because my handles don't have enough "turning radius" to drop the inside cavity cleanly. The boolit keeps getting hung up dropping out. What say ye? Do a little hillbilly machining on the handles? They are Lees.

I had the same problem with a GB .475 mould, and figured this mould would be as bad or worse. I will soon find out! I think I wll do as you suggest, and do a little handle grinding to let them open further. Pointing the .475 mould straight down when dropping them worked OK for getting #6 out.

[dubber123]

My moulds came today, and I tried 2 of them out. # 6 is a bit of a pain, but pointing the mould down when dropping gives it enough room to escape, (usually). The 2 I tried dropped boolits easily after a little deburring.

[Forester]

Any actual loads or groups with this mold yet? Mine is in the mail (purchased an extra so it went out late) and I am chomping at the bit to give it a try.

[dubber123]

Any actual loads or groups with this mold yet? Mine is in the mail (purchased an extra so it went out late) and I am chomping at the bit to give it a try.

I hope to try some this weekend, if I get off the computer and load some!. Both of my moulds are giving mne some funky measurements I'm still trying to work out. The plain base is big enough within reason, but the gas check mould is casting kinda small. I re-cast my whole first batch, and they are no bigger. I may have to lap this one a bit.

[WKAYE]

I cast some out my GC mould today and they're measuring .459 on the top 2 bands and .460 on the driver. That's with WW alloy. A little smaller than I had hoped for.

[Forester]

I cast some out my GC mould today and they're measuring .459 on the top 2 bands and .460 on the driver. That's with WW alloy. A little smaller than I had hoped for.

.459" with straight WW alloy? That does not bode well for me, with 2% tin added. Though WW alloy would make things simpler. That might still be large enough for my 1895 though...Can't wait to find out.

[dubber123]

Tried my bothers mould out tonight, a GC version, with straight WW's, about 5" of wire solder, (for the tin), it cast at .461+". His pot was on max. This is a good bit bigger than mine was casting, so I may have to play with the temp some more.

[WKAYE]

.459" with straight WW alloy? That does not bode well for me, with 2% tin added. Though WW alloy would make things simpler. That might still be large enough for my 1895 though...Can't wait to find out.

Forester,
Sorry about the confusion. My WW alloy has 2% tin babbitt and 2% mag shot added. About 5 years ago I borrowed a bottom pour smelter from a friend that held over 300lbs. I ran 10 batches then blended those together. :Fire:

[Forester]

I gave the mold a very quick try this afternoon but did not have much luck getting good boolits. I think it needs a little de-burring around the cavities to let it vent better. What results I did get were ladle casting and holding the ladle right against the hole to gain some extra pressure.

The few good boolits I did get measured .461-.462 on the drive bands. This was with WW alloy and 2% tin added. I will do some work on the mold tomorrow morning and maybe give it another go if I have time.

[pipehand]

Mine is casting right at the specified .462" and 415grains cast of a mix of ww and range scrap. I'm casting at 700 degrees, and the mould is filling out well when bottom poured with about an inch or less space to the spout. If you're not getting fillout, check your temp. I'm trying to keep up the pace by using a plastic spray bottle and misting the sprue to get it to set up quicker without letting the mould blocks cool off too much.
I thought that the nose looked a bit long, and when seated to the very edge of the crimp groove, it does exceed the 2.55" max length oft quoted for the 336/1895 action of the Marlin. I didn't mention it to my Guide Gun, which is unknowingly feeding the "overlength" rounds without a hangup.
Between yesterday and this morning, I've put about eighty of those bullets downrange. Rather than remelt some of the less than perfect bullets, I sized and loobed them (If we can have homemade boolits, them my homemade ersatz fwfwl can be loob) and loaded them over 9 grains of trailboss. Haven't tried them at over 25 yards, but they were a hoot to shoot. The boolits that passed inspection for total fillout 9and no snotty noses) were loaded over 32grains of IMR 4198, with two .461" beer carton card wads protecting the base of the boolit. I haven't "benched" that load yet, but shooting off supported elbows it shot in less than two inches at 100 for 5 shot groups, and to the same poa as the same load with the lyman 457463 that I had been using.
Ive got 300 boolits sized and loobed this morning, and will be loading them up this week for shootin when I get back home again. (may have to work next weekend.)

[dubber123]

I only got to try one group today with the plain base version. I am still working at getting a little more diameter out of the GC version. The load was 30.0 grs. of H-4198, (very mild), and air cooled WW's, (14 bhn). Off a crappy rest, with some bleary eye balls, 5 shots went in 1.10" at 50 yards, from the iron sighted Marlin 1895 Cowboy. I am betting I can cut this nearly in half on a good day. I shot another 8 rounds off hand at a 6" swinger. I think Boomer may have hit a home run with this one. I like it!

[Lloyd Smale]

I havent shot it yet but casted some yesterday. the mold seemed to cast well. Like a typical lee its a ballancing act between to hot and to cold. But all the lees are especially when a 6 cavity block is cut with a big bullet. One thing nice was it was also my first try with bullshop spruce plate lube and it sure did help in one dept. when it got to hot and smeared the lead just wipes off and it probably will prevent me from gauling alot of lee molds in the future. Tell you what guys. I dont know if it will shoot but its got to be about the best looking 4570 bullet ive seen. I cant imagine that it wont fly like a bird!

[Forester]

I had some time to give the mold a better try this afternoon and got significantly better results. I guess I should have figured it would be like any other Lee 6 gang and like to be cast hot. When I cranked up the temperature the good boolits started coming pretty easy.

I still had a high reject rate (+/-%30) but I was pretty hard on them when inspecting. After a visual check of every boolit I weight sorted the keepers in 1gr incriments to see what I would come up with. Heres a list:

Weight Number
395gr 8
396gr 30
397gr 53
398gr 51
399gr 14
400gr 1

Not too bad for a boolit this weight I don't think. 1gr is just a quarter percent of the total.

Weight sorting this way may or may not make much difference, but I am happier knowing that I am not making load decisions based on a group with boolits having 5gr of weight difference.


I will find out how they shoot as soon as I can, but Loyd is right, this sure is a good looking 45-70 boolit!

[muffinman]

Ok boys, I shot a few groups off the bench today with the gc version. I started at 45 grains of IMR 3031 and worked up to 50 grains. Three shot groups started at 5 inches, went down to 1 1/2 inches with 48 grains opened up a little at 49 and dropped to .830 with 49.5 grains. 50 grains showed no sign of high pressure but they started to open up again to 2 1/2 inches. I was shooting my Gs and have not chronoed this load yet. Hope this helps. Mark

[dubber123]

Tried 32 grains of H-4198 with the plain base version of this mould in the Marlin Cowboy. .890" at 50 yards with the iron sights. Cast from water dropped WW's, sized .461". I will have to try a little softer boolit.

[Lloyd Smale]

did you chronograph that load dubber?
Tried 32 grains of H-4198 with the plain base version of this mould in the Marlin Cowboy. .890" at 50 yards with the iron sights. Cast from water dropped WW's, sized .461". I will have to try a little softer boolit.

[dubber123]

did you chronograph that load dubber?

Lloyd, no I didn't. I am looking for 1,600 fps. for a minimum load, and I am betting that 32 grain load falls a little short, maybe 1,550fps. According to my manual, it's probably only making about 18,000 PSI, mild even for a Trapdoor.

This test was with hard boolits, I will load some more at 33 grains and see what it does. I need to try softer boolits too. I will get you some chronograph #'s.

[Dr. A]

I've used alot of the 32gr. of H4198 and had problems with consistancy. Wild velocity fluctuation. I've had much better luck with old 2400. I used 25gr. on a 420gr. bullet for 1500 plus. Don't know about this boolit yet. Got a bunch casted up.

[dubber123]

I've used alot of the 32gr. of H4198 and had problems with consistancy. Wild velocity fluctuation. I've had much better luck with old 2400. I used 25gr. on a 420gr. bullet for 1500 plus. Don't know about this boolit yet. Got a bunch casted up.

The velocity fluctuations wouldn't surprise me, as I really doubt the pressure is much above 18,000PSI. Not too many powders seem to be happy at this pressure level, and I wouldn't expect this one to be much different.

I will work up 1 grain at a time, and I am betting it gets better. If the velocity exceeds my target goal before the powder starts getting consistant, I'll have to switch propellants.

[dubber123]

did you chronograph that load dubber?

Lloyd, chronographed 33 grains of H-4198 with the GB plain base. Only 1,408 fps. As usual, if it feels mild, it probably is. This is a bunch slower than the book, but seems to shoot well.

[pipehand]

Dubber- chronoed the 32 grain load out of my Guide- with two beer carton .461 "gas checks" protecting the plain base. It's running right at 1285fps+/- 15fps.
Two weeks ago I tried some penetration experiments using one gallon jugs. Ten did not stop the bullet, and it penetrated in a straight line.
Today, I repeated the test. the first 4 jugs exploded. The next 9 remained on the stand- some split,all leaking. The fourteenth jug was knocked off the stand,with a small cut in it. The bullet was recovered on the ground. The bullet was not "mushroomed" but had changed from LFN to WLN profile. The loob was gone from the rear groove, but the front groove looked like it had just come out of the sizer.
I took pictures with my cell phone at each step, but its going to take a while for me to figure out how to get them from phone to forum. I'm using a Motorola Razor, and if anyone can walk me through the steps, I'd much appreciate it.
BTW, I'm casting these of a mix of ww and recovered range scrap (with a high percentage of commercial cast bullets) of an unknown BnH , and air cooled.
I'm amazed, as they completely penetrated NINE FEET of water. Shoulda tried them on Mythbusters and put a hole in the bottom of the pool!:-D

[dubber123]

It's funny you just posted, I think I remember you writing about the beer carton wads. I was just looking around for something other than a case to use as a cutter to make some of my own. I would have liked to see a video of your tests, they were fun I'm sure.

I know the 1,400 fps. I have is a great plenty, but I had 1,600 in mind. Not flat out, but warm. I might make it with the plain base, and then again....

[pipehand]

Dubber- I got my press mounted wad maker from Buffalo Arms, but it looks exactly like some I've seen labeled as being made by a fellow named Fred Cornell. I think he was mentioned in one or more of Paul Matthews' books, and might be a mould maker as well. Whoever made it, it's a good piece of gear!
The heavier(higher velocity) loads are in my future with the Marlin, but for now, I just wanted an accurate load that didn't stomp me so bad while I practice with the gun. I can't imagine needing higher velocity for anything but "time to target" issues.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the info on the card cutter. I'll probably just use a sharpened case to see if it helps me at all, but if it does, I will get the correct tool for the job.

I shot some a few weeks ago at the range, some pb's at 1,300ish, and some GC versions at around 1,800 fps. It was remarkable how much the extra speed was noticeable at the 200 meter targets. With just a plastic buttplate, 400+ gr. boolits at 1,800 fps. aren't ideal for the bench.

[hicard]

I just posted a new thread. Got a 5 shot group photo posted in the thread titled 464420. Ya, should of called it 462420. Dang fingers. 28 grs of IMR 4198 produced a pleasant and consistent 1150 fps and this this group with a low power scoute scope on my 1895 GS.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/hicard1/100_1160.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb221/hicard1/000_0009.jpg