Old powders at a yard sale

[jeepyj]

Here's a photo of some powders that I picked up on my way to camp most about half are still sealed. I consider it to be a good find. Jeepyj
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[Bzcraig]

It looks like a great find, what did it cost ya?

[super6]

And the powder gods smile opon jeepyi ...

[runfiverun]

I just emptied a can of the Hercules red-dot, and still have part of a can of 231 like shown.
they both work great.

[Joe504]

Here is a good place for this discussion. How safe do you think It is to use someone else's opened powder? What if they moved powder into a different can?

[DLCTEX]

I haven't found anything reloading related at garage sales in too long. A few years ago I got a pound of green dot and a bag of shot for $25.

[oldred]

And you are willing to bet that what the can says is what is actually in there? You know that no one didn't mix any of these powders accidentally? While a sealed can, if it can be verified that the seal actually has never been opened, should be safe enough to use buying opened cans of powder can be worse than buying unknown reloads!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Here is a good place for this discussion. How safe do you think It is to use someone else's opened powder? What if they moved powder into a different can?

Actually there is a current discussion of exactly what you are asking ...in a more appropriate sub-forum.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?243007-buying-opened-older-used-powders&highlight=

I will offer here, what I offered in the linked thread.

One tip I will offer anyone who is buying partially used/opened containers of powder. Besides the smell test...Pour out a tablespoon sized sample of the powder onto a paper plate or such, make sure the granules are uniform (to hopefully detect if it's more than one powder mixed together) and compare it to a new canister of the same powder, if that's impossible, post a photo here, someone will probably be able to help.

[oldred]

I would NEVER even consider using a can of powder that someone else had opened! I only know of this from "second hand accounts" but there was one particular incident here a couple of years ago where a local guy bought some powder at a gun show, fortunately he inspected it for signs of deterioration before using it and noticed different types of kernels indicating someone had mixed it with a different powder! Hey, it happens, someone will accidentally empty a measure into the wrong can (I did that once with H4198 and H4895 due to the very similar containers) but I noticed what had happened just as the powder fell into the container, I used it for fertilizer! Some folks would simply think "aw that little bit won't hurt anything, I will just mix it well" and one fellow seriously suggested just that when I told him what I had done, others might try to sell it at a gun show or wherever. IMO yardsale powder is not a good deal at any price and is usable only for fertilizer!


I did however buy some UNOPENED cans of Black Powder at a yardsale a couple of years ago but BP obviously could be inspected for contamination with other powders even if the can had been opened, BP is a whole 'nother animal compared to high pressure smokeless propellants!

[Pb2au]

I would call that a jackpot.
Nicely done.

[firefly1957]

I have got one can of mixed powders at a garage sale it was a AL-5 can full to the top with many types of powder . It was with a Mec 400 12 gauge press that cost $10 the powder made a heck of a fireball when lit.

[oldred]

I would call that a jackpot.
Nicely done.

Jackpot as in GAMBLE???? It's definitely a roll of the dice with yardsale powders and considering the potential results if a person rolls and loses, even if the odds are better, it would seem to be more like Russian Roulette!

[lefty o]

the unopened cans are a good find. the open ones are fertalizer, but the cans would look good on the shelf.

[WILCO]

Here is a good place for this discussion. How safe do you think It is to use someone else's opened powder? What if they moved powder into a different can?

On occasion, I've used an open can of powder that was given to me by a known source. Outside of that, I pass.
Any sealed can of powder is always safe enough for me. Standard "Old Powder" rules apply.

[CastingFool]

I have used opened powder before, but it was from a known source. Have turned down some, too, since they were from unknown sources.

[Col4570]

We had an incident at the range where a rifle disintegrated and actualy brazed the Brass Shell to the Chamber.The scrap was sent to the Birmingham Proof house with a sample of the powder used.When they tested the powder it ruined their High pressure testing rig.On investigation it was evident that two differing powders had been mixed one was Bullseye Pistol Powder the other a Rifle Powder.The differing colours of the two powders could be clearly seen.The detonation was unbelievably massive.The shooter escaped injury.

[oldred]

The shooter escaped injury.


Which unfortunately is not always the case!

[Hamish]

Here we go again,,,,,,,

As said, if any question, take good pics and post it and it should be identifiable with very little problem by the more knowledgable here. If not, then, treat it as the fastest powder on the chart,,,,

About three grains in the .38, .357, or .45 and cautiously proceed from there.

Or, two grains in a small capacity rifle case (.223 specifically works well) with cast. Again cautiously work up.

EDIT: I should have included the caveat that I personally would be reticent to attempt load work up with more than one powder type apparent.

[oldred]

treat it as the fastest powder on the chart,,,,


That suggestion goes right out the window if the powders have been mixed! As a previous post pointed out even a small amount of Bullseye mixed with some rifle powders could make the pressures go off the scale! The potential for disaster is simply not worth the few dollars saved, lost firearms, fingers or even a person's life could easily be the result of someone else's mistake. Besides trying to identify a powder on a computer monitor over the internet would in itself be a risky proposition.

[FLHTC]

I once bought three opened 8 pounders. One of Herco, one of 2400 and the other of 296 and am i ever glad it didn't go to fertilizer

[dragon813gt]

As said, if any question, take good pics and post it and it should be identifiable with very little problem by the more knowledgable here.



No way I would ever rely on this method. You can't identify a powder by its looks. There was an example of this on The High Road recently. A member came into something like 32#s of an unkown powder. He evetually ended up confirming that it was W296 from the previous owner. From the pics posted it looked nothing like W296. The individual grains looked way to big to be that powder. A picture posted on the Internet for others to "determine" what powder it is is a recipe for disaster.

That case also points out why you can't treat an unkown powder as a fast one. Downloading W296 is very dangerous due to unreliable ignition. Most powders don't have this issue but it's still a potential problem.

[deerspy]

and how due you know if it is sealed if there is no seal, I got a 8#er of Bullseye from powder valley and it did not have a seal I was very concerned almost took it back but had some from last one I bought and did a comparsion with magnification and it look the same so I used it

[richhodg66]

"That case also points out why you can't treat an unkown powder as a fast one. Downloading W296 is very dangerous due to unreliable ignition. Most powders don't have this issue but it's still a potential problem."

About 20 years ago when I was dumber, I bought a big opened can of 296 at a garage sale in Alaska because it was cheap and did exactly this. Figuring worst case it was Bullseye in the can (which was a 296 can, by the way) I loaded a few 148 grain wadcutters with 3 grains of it, which I knew to be a safe load even with Bullseye. I then loaded it in an old beat up Ruger I have which I knew was both very strong and which I didn't have much money in and took it to the range.

I can tell you, 3 grains of 296 behind a wadcutter in a .357 is unimpressive to say the least. I could watch the bullets go downrange and bounce off the target frame. I gradually increased the loading until I was sure it really was 296 and then I used it up, maybe three pounds of it that I got for a couple of bucks.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I probably wouldn't do it again, but I never saw any problem with an underload of 296 like I hear about.

[KYCaster]

Good grief..........:groner:

The can of Unique and two cans of Bullseye in the front row still have the metal seal you have to tear off before you can open the can. I'd pay 50 bucks for the lot just to get those three cans.

The tall Alliant cans in the back row have a plastic seal under the cap that has to be torn out to open the can, so those two cans would be a bonus if those were still intact.

The OP didn't say what he paid, but I'd be willing to bet it was less than $50.

WAY TO GO BRO! :drinks:

Jerry

[oldred]

Good grief..........:groner:

The can of Unique and two cans of Bullseye in the front row still have the metal seal you have to tear off before you can open the can. I'd pay 50 bucks for the lot just to get those three cans.

The tall Alliant cans in the back row have a plastic seal under the cap that has to be torn out to open the can, so those two cans would be a bonus if those were still intact.

The OP didn't say what he paid, but I'd be willing to bet it was less than $50.

WAY TO GO BRO! :drinks:

Jerry

I think if you go back and re-read what everyone is saying you will find that no one is saying the UNOPENED cans should not be used but the OP clearly said some of them had been opened, it's ONLY THE OPENED CANS or the ones that can't be determined if they have been opened or not that everyone is warning about and that warning is valid!!!!

[Pb2au]

Like all things in life, we are free to make choices.
The OP scored a lot of powder. Kudos and congrats!
Some of it is open. If the OP is comfortable with that, and can positively identify it, awesome. If not, it can be tossed.
I understand and can agree with oldred to point. If you own some unknown, un-identified powder and do not have a way to ID it, toss it for safety sake.
I know there are some folks here that have enough experience to work out how to use unknown powder. In their cases, it is no problem. For those that can't, or do not feel comfortable doing so, it is no loss to toss it.

[oldred]

My biggest concern would be mixed powder as this would be much harder to determine, as I said earlier it happened to me but I caught it in time, since some folks might just "mix it up real good" and take a chance on it as some suggested I do with the H4198/H4895 accidental mix. Considering the possible consequences just to save a few partial cans of powder it just doesn't seem to be worth the risk however as it was pointed out by several the risk is to be judged by the user, if the worst happens then they were warned!

[jeepyj]

Good morning all, I’m to OP of this thread and I'll say my piece. I would have been responding to some of the threads as the came in however I experienced some sort of difficulty getting on to the site for all of Sunday night and yesterday I was lucky enough to have to have been invited to a deep sea fishing trip and was unavailable until late in the night when I returned. Like many of you I've been loading for many many years. I've seen first and second hand the extreme dangers the loading and casting can cause. I wholeheartedly agree to always air to the safe side.
The particular sale I happen to come across was an older gentleman that has decided to give up on the some aspects of the hobby. The location is a stone throw from my cottage and a couple weeks ago a neighbor happen to stop and called me and said he had bullets and guns. On my way to camp I stopped in to see if there was anything interesting and picked up a Lyman 450 lube sizer for $15.00. At that time I asked if he was going to part with and other casting equipment and he mentioned as time allows he was going to start to sort out some of his loading and casting equipment and sell some each weekend at his little sale. Keep in mind this gentleman lives on a very rural road and doesn't see a lot of traffic so that's how I ended up back there this weekend. As I arrived he had just marked the powders that we've been talking about and quite a lot more. He and I chatted for quite some time about many different aspects of the hobby and I'm very comfortable with my purchase. Many of the containers are indeed still sealed (I didn't count but at least half if not 75%) and I have been loading most of these exact powers and I could compare to the same brands that I have on the shelf.
I was more intrigued with the old tin containers and thought it was a double bonus to get them full. Yes I will treat them with some suspicion but intend on using them.
Thank you, Jeepyj

[lefty o]

just remember, if you shoot unknown powders around other people, its not just your safety involved.

[oldred]

I'm very comfortable with my purchase.



That's the key to it and risk can be based on that if you feel confident you can trust the person. Since we here on the forum had no idea of the circumstances surrounding the finding of these powders the suggestion that using unopened cans of powder is risky was made in general terms, it still is a valid point in that respect but some people still want to scoff at the idea. Buying unknown powders CAN be dangerous, maybe not so risky in this case, but it obviously is a real possibility and adds an unknown and extra risk factor to a sport that is extremely unforgiving of mistakes! Blow-ups DO happen, powders DO get mixed and not everyone is attentive enough (or just lucky sometimes) to catch the error, how many times have we seen blow-ups on shooting forums where the shooter swears he did not over charge and no one can say conclusively what happened. How many newbies jumped into the game at the start of the panic and have now lost interest and want to sell the gear they bought on a whim? How careful were they? How many would do exactly what some suggested I do with the powders I accidentally mixed? The risks are real and the results can be devastating and those who scoff at these very real risks are just the types of people that we see with blown up guns asking what the dickens happened!

[alrighty]

Nice find, I also have bought and used opened containers of powder from yard sales.Less than 20 years ago I could go to the hardware store in Greenville, Ky. and buy a pound of any powder I wanted in a zip-lock bag.The owner always bought the powder in kegs and would sell it like that.
The OP sounds like he knows what is doing and is proceeding with caution so I say congratulations and enjoy.

[dragonrider]

What is the can in the middle front row? can't read the label

[jeepyj]

The can in the middle says S&W / Alcan AL 5. I forgot to show the old DuPont 4320 can with a paper label pictured below
Jeepyj

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[jeepyj]

That's the key to it and risk can be based on that if you feel confident you can trust the person. Since we here on the forum had no idea of the circumstances surrounding the finding of these powders the suggestion that using unopened cans of powder is risky was made in general terms, it still is a valid point in that respect but some people still want to scoff at the idea. Buying unknown powders CAN be dangerous, maybe not so risky in this case, but it obviously is a real possibility and adds an unknown and extra risk factor to a sport that is extremely unforgiving of mistakes! Blow-ups DO happen, powders DO get mixed and not everyone is attentive enough (or just lucky sometimes) to catch the error, how many times have we seen blow-ups on shooting forums where the shooter swears he did not over charge and no one can say conclusively what happened. How many newbies jumped into the game at the start of the panic and have now lost interest and want to sell the gear they bought on a whim? How careful were they? How many would do exactly what some suggested I do with the powders I accidentally mixed? The risks are real and the results can be devastating and those who scoff at these very real risks are just the types of people that we see with blown up guns asking what the dickens happened!
Oldred I couldn't agree more safety should be first and foremost. I believe that the older I get the more safe I play it and I probably should have mentioned it here "Just in case"
Thank you, Jeepyj

[Teddy (punchie)]

Me I try to ID all powders. Always have more then one can around. Never never assume anything with powder. If it looks like it is a mix, I try to find out what has happened, that said I have only found one mixed powder that I'm still not sure about, is it is mixed ? but just looks funny.

Reason ID powders is just something I learned early on. Then after reading about strength of actions in P.O. Book I found that any good 98 or 7.7 , 6.5 can be used to test a very light load of any thing that I even had any question on. Question can be a load of some other Reloader or powder, to data that just is not the same as an other book or manual. I. Have never used just one data source for loading, an other thing I learned early on. Some people should not reload. I have seen many things that I just shake my head at. Buy used powder can be a question?? But if you have an idea of how to ID powder, and I have seen a few that look close in size an make up, but after closer look they look different. I would have bought that powder in a heart beat. Placed in the powder box, labeled and ID by comparing the to ones I have. Any questions or ones I can not double check mark as ?? Powder don't use ID ?? And tape top. That said again I only have one that I have ID as ?? .

Be Safe, read learn and double check!!