Started friend reloading - Forster CO-AX or Dillon 550b?

[Alvin]

So I started my friend reloading, and he's been practicing with me for about 6 months now. I started him off with a basic single stage press with everything he needed to reload safely. For the first couple of months he would come over and watch me reload as i explained what I was doing. It progressed to him helping me out with various steps of the reloading process, and eventually to him reloading by himself with me supervising. He's at the point now where he is profient at reloading, and ready to make an investment into some gear.

The main question is the press, and a single stage vs progressive. I know a lot of people prefer the single stage, even when they are experts because of the time needed for each round. He's not going to be making thousands of rounds, but because his weapons are limited in calibers I almost want to have him lean to the Dillon 550b vs the CO-AX. Has anyone been in this situation recently, or give me some general pros and cons? He is in the Marine Corps, and he is a very studious learner and pays attention even when I explain the same thing for the 100th time. Thanks in advance for the help.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

How many rounds per month does he plan on loading? How much free time does he have? Is he looking for precision ammunition? My opinion is the following: Buy one of each and you are set. You can volume load for pistol or rifle plinking ammo on the 550 and you can also load precision rifle loads on the co-ax. I would buy a 550 and a cheaper single stage...Lee will suffice.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Only one? Co-Ax or any single stage press!

[country gent]

The single stage press is the way to go starting out, The coax is a great press but there are some things the top handle limits being able to do ( push thru sizers are one) . A rock chucker or even a lee press works great and will allow almost any tooling to be used. My coax has been rebuilt once and I am very happy with it there are just some drawbacks to it with certain tooling. A dillon 550 is a great machine and produces ammo faster but unless hes been using yours will be a new learning curve for him.

[brtelec]

This is really comparing apples and oranges. I love my Co-Ax, but it is only used for precision rifle. My Rock Chucker does most of the heavy lifting and the progessives handle the volume.

[Alvin]

He has a few hours a day he can reload if he needs to plus the weekend. When he started out, he came over a few times a week to learn. In terms of how many rounds he'll be reloading a month, that I couldn't answer. My feeling is that he may start reloading for friends when he gets more experience.

He already has a RCBS single stage reloader that I gave to him, he's looking to upgrade to something nicer. He doesn't plan on doing any swagging, so I'm thinking that the Dillon 550b is the best choice given he already has the RCBS single stage? He just wants a nice reloader that he can use for hopefully as long as he reloads, I don't see him getting into the top of the line Dillon presses. Given that both hold their resale value well, I think I'll recommend he purchases the 550b since has a RCBS single sage that he can use for a while.

[wcp4570]

It would be no contest for me and the choice would be Dillon. I have a RCBS Rock Chucker, reloader special with piggy back, a Dillon 650 and a 1050 on loan for 223. The 650 is hands down the most used machine. Dillion's warrany is top notch on everything except the 1050 and that is because the 1050 is considered a commercial loader that can be motor driven.

wcp

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well..I owned a Co-Ax for over 20 yrs. (my first press) and if your friend has a RCBS single stage already, he's not going to reload any more better ammo with a Co-Ax! All presses "float" the case. Dies are really more important to accurate reloading than the press! Don't believe it? Go to a benchrest match and see what those guys put their money in!

[Dan Cash]

Each type press has it mission. I have 2 550s, 2 Co-Axs and a Redding T7 on the bench with an ancient Herter's "C" press inverted for push through sizing and a Rock Chucker stowed away in a cubby hole. The T7 is dedicated to BP .45-70 match ammo, the Co-Ax presses do small lot (fewer than 100) rifle rounds or experimental pistol loads, the Dillon's do the rest. You don't say what kind of shooting your friend does, or I missed it but I agree with some of the other folks here, get the Dillon ( recommend the 550) and a cheaper single stage press for small batches.

[Garyshome]

My first press is a Dillon RL 550B. Everything else is kind of sub par.

[FISH4BUGS]

I started with my Dillon many years ago. My customer number is a shade over #1600. The press has been repaired many times at no charge with parts from Dillon. Their warranty is simply the best.
I shoot machine guns so it is not unusual to load 5,000 at a whack. You can load quality if you take your time and quantity if you hustle.
I'd go with the Dillon.

[Alvarez Kelly]

If your friend needs quantities of ammo, the Dillon 550 would be an obvious choice over the Co-ax.

I have owned and used Dillon RL300s, RL450s, RL550s, XL650s, Square Deals, and a Super 1050. I still have two RL550s on my reloading bench. In my opinion, the RL550 is the best all around press value Dillon makes. You, or your friend, can't go wrong with the RL550.

Wish you and your friend good luck.

[Bonz]

I started with a single stage, upgraded to a Lyman Tmag turret and finally a Hornady LNL progressive. Wish I would have went straight for the progressive; it can load one bullet a time just like a single stage or 5 bullets at a time like a progressive. I load .223, .44mag & .500mag one bullet at a time and everything else 5 at a time :-)

[Paul Tummers]

He has a few hours a day he can reload if he needs to plus the weekend. When he started out, he came over a few times a week to learn. In terms of how many rounds he'll be reloading a month, that I couldn't answer. My feeling is that he may start reloading for friends when he gets more experience.

He already has a RCBS single stage reloader that I gave to him, he's looking to upgrade to something nicer. He doesn't plan on doing any swagging, so I'm thinking that the Dillon 550b is the best choice given he already has the RCBS single stage? He just wants a nice reloader that he can use for hopefully as long as he reloads, I don't see him getting into the top of the line Dillon presses. Given that both hold their resale value well, I think I'll recommend he purchases the 550b since has a RCBS single sage that he can use for a while.
I vote for the single stage press regardless of the amounts of rounds he intends to load. Loading for other people? Tell him to think this over a couple of times and then again some more times before he starts doing this; He will be held responsible when something goes wrong and if not he will be morally responsible which can even be a lot more painful!

[imashooter2]

I love my 550 and SDB, but I would never have a progressive as my only press. I'd start him with a Rockchucker.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I love my 550 and SDB, but I would never have a progressive as my only press. I'd start him with a Rockchucker.

OP has said his friend already has a Rockchucker.

[joesig]

My feeling is that he may start reloading for friends when he gets more experience.



If this is the case, he needs to get a good lawyer first! Even if the FFL isn't required, still not a good idea plus the muzzle with mud, you still know who will be blamed.

Teach his friends, great. He has the RCBS, he is set there. Let his friends borrow it to make their own, the RCBS works again.

For personal volume use, Dillon or some like the Hornady. Will he be buying it himself? What would HE like in a press, etc?

[Alvin]

Wow, thanks for all the input and reasoning for each type of press. Since his ammo is mostly for plinking, I really do think the Dillon is the right choice. When I mean he will load for friends, it's similar to what I've done for people in the past I go shooting with. With the prices skyrocketing for basic ammo at even places like Walmart, he would probably just load 1k rounds of whatever they are going to shoot and have them pay for the components and he would shoot from that batch for free.

The only type of competition shooting I could see him doing is some of the military contests with the M1A and similar rifles which he can do with the RCBS I have him. With all of this great information, I think I'll have to save some money and buy a CO-AX now. :)

[trails4u]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the good ole Lee Classic turret press. I still use mine...A LOT, for both pistol and rifle plinking, and can simply remove the advance to use it as a single-stage. Hence, I also sometimes use the same press for my more precise hunting loads. It won't compare to the Dillon, obviously, but if he's on a budget like mine...it's a good compromise. If I'm really dialed in, throwing a good-metering ball powder, and on a mission....I can crank several hundred an hour in pistol, and probably a couple hundred an hour for .223 blasting stuff. Not bad for $100 or so investment....IMO.

[David2011]

. . . he would probably just load 1k rounds of whatever they are going to shoot and have them pay for the components and he would shoot from that batch for free.


It's not worth the risk and the costs. Two Federal licenses are required to do it legally. The BATFE license is $40 for 4 years IIRC. The State Department license is over $2200/year and liability for a newbie loader would be outrageous of anyone would even cover him. Doing it on the side for the wrong person could mean Federal prison and loss of the freedom to own firearms.

Once he becomes competent he can teach other people to load on his equipment and let them pull the handle without the complications and risks of doing it for others. Let them buy their own components and teach them for free.

David

[Petrol & Powder]

Hi,
Well..I owned a Co-Ax for over 20 yrs. (my first press) and if your friend has a RCBS single stage already, he's not going to reload any more better ammo with a Co-Ax! All presses "float" the case. Dies are really more important to accurate reloading than the press! Don't believe it? Go to a benchrest match and see what those guys put their money in!

This sums it up well. If he has a single stage RCBS press the Co-Ax is adding nothing to his capabilities. The Co-Ax is a great press but it's still a single stage press. A Dillon 550 would be my choice.

[CastingFool]

I vote for the single stage press regardless of the amounts of rounds he intends to load. Loading for other people? Tell him to think this over a couple of times and then again some more times before he starts doing this; He will be held responsible when something goes wrong and if not he will be morally responsible which can even be a lot more painful!

Not only that, but he would get in trouble with the BATF, as they consider reloading for friends as being an ammo manufacturer and require licensing.

[r1kk1]

I guess I'm the only one here that owns both plus three other single stage machines. The COAX is a very fine machine. Die swap changes are a breeze plus you can use Forster, Sinclair and Hornady lock rings although the factory wants you to use their aluminum rings. The latest version B3, the yoke is tall enough to clear tall micrometer adjusting dies. I'm using a 3rd party plate to change plates quickly without launching springs from the jaws and do have the shellholder adapter also. Inline fabrication makes several upgrades for the press and is working on a new handle for the B3 models. Forget about using a press mounted powder measure. I have the short handle and long handle and prefer the short handle. It is not a very ergonomic press but I still really like it. Access to cartridges is very good but not as good as the Ultramag and Summit which are two others I own.

The 550 is a fine machine. I have mine from the frame upgrade of the 80s. I have loaded into 100k with this machine. The only complaints I have is die spacing is very close and I can run two other lock rings of my choice and use Dillon 1" lock rings for the other two stations. I have four powder measures each with separate charge bars to cover a lot of pistol loading. I do run a JDS Quick Measure for rifle or bottleneck stuff.

Since your friend has a Rock Chucker, he can use the Hornady LNL press conversion bushing. I use this in my Ultramag and Summit. It allows for quick die changes too and can use anyone's lockrings. I've been doing some case forming with LNL bushings and so far ok.

The most ergonomic press I own is my cast steel, CH4D Champion press. Huge ram only super ceded by the Summit (according to RCBS literature, looks like a 2" post to me but I won't argue) and the front of the frame allows me to hang on while I do radical case forming. It is a joy to use but does not allow for the LNL conversion as this is a very old press with a different thread pitch for the bushing.

I've recently fell in love when I bought my Summit. I can use the LNL system or the arbor press conversion kit for my Wilson dies. I have an arbor press but I'm really liking this press. This press and the Coax are good for lefties too. Access to cartridges is wonderful and I have the short handle kit and can really feel bullet seating force.

The Ultramag is slightly Taller than the Champion and weighs just as much at 30 lbs. Access to case is wonderful and of course you can use LNL bushings in it. It works well.

Well that's it. I would say to your friend buy whatever or both. I'm very happy with all my presses. All except the Dillon are mounted on Rock Docks and two roller cabinets with two Rock Dock systems in place. I do use them in conjunction with my 550 for certain tasks.

Take care

r1kk1

[imashooter2]

OP has said his friend already has a Rockchucker.

Ah! I missed the OPs second post. Since that is the case, I'm with you on the 550 as a 2nd press upgrade.

[engineer401]

I would buy a 550 and a cheaper single stage...Lee will suffice.

I have a Lee Classic Cast and a 550B with accessories. It's always best to have a single stage in addition to the progressive. If he can only afford one press, the single stage is the most versatile.

[David2011]

He already has a RCBS single stage reloader that I gave to him, he's looking to upgrade to something nicer.


Some have assumed he has a RockChucker. I don't see that you actually wrote that it was a RockChucker. Is that correct? If it's one of the smaller presses that doesn't have a removable bushing then a RockChucker would be a significant upgrade IMO for both utility and leverage. I've added the Hornady LnL bushing system to my RC and love it. I would even go for an older RC over a new one. My RCII is smooth and tight and it's not because it hasn't been used. My buddy's new RCIV is not nearly as smooth and tight as my old one.

If he has a RockChucker, then definitely go with the 550.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

post #6 states he already has an rcbs ss press, but not specifically a RC.

[Alvin]

It's not worth the risk and the costs. Two Federal licenses are required to do it legally. The BATFE license is $40 for 4 years IIRC. The State Department license is over $2200/year and liability for a newbie loader would be outrageous of anyone would even cover him. Doing it on the side for the wrong person could mean Federal prison and loss of the freedom to own firearms.

Once he becomes competent he can teach other people to load on his equipment and let them pull the handle without the complications and risks of doing it for others. Let them buy their own components and teach them for free.

David

David and others: Thank you very much for this information that I had no idea about. I knew that to load ammunition for sale the licensing and storage requirements, but did not know that loading for a friend was along the same lines. Does this also include if my in laws were to shoot ammo I reloaded, or is it only when money exchanges hands? I would like to keep my freedom as well as my firearms. Thank you to all that explained to me the dangers of him reloading for others.

[seagiant]

Hi,
When I was young and getting into pistol shooting. I decided to start reloading for my 44mag as a way to DOWN load the cartridge for more enjoyment and accuracy! At that time you could buy reloaded ammo from your LGS. I don't see that any more and don't really know why it changed, as I did not keep up with it as I have been loading my own for the past 30 years!

Just sayin, there are many advantages to reloading,but also some dangers and best to think about them. Squib loads happen now and then and if you are aware of the possibility, no problem. You know when you hear a "pop" instead of a "bang" NOT to shoot the next round! A beginner shooter, maybe not so much!:-(

[MT Chambers]

THe Co-ax is the finest, so unless you are reloading for quantity, the Co-ax would be my pick......if speed/quantity is most important then the Dillon would be good. I usually reload for best accuracy and small batches.

[MtGun44]

All new reloaders need spend some time on a single stage press "learning the trade".
After that period, the equipment choice is dictated by:

1: money budget
2: time budget
3: ammo quantity requirements

Secondary factors like mechanical aptitude come into play, too. Some folks are just
flustered by a progressive and others just take to the myriad of tiny, interrelated,
fine adjustments required like a duck to water.

There are very many ways to skin this cat.

Bill

[David2011]

David and others: Thank you very much for this information that I had no idea about. I knew that to load ammunition for sale the licensing and storage requirements, but did not know that loading for a friend was along the same lines. Does this also include if my in laws were to shoot ammo I reloaded, or is it only when money exchanges hands? I would like to keep my freedom as well as my firearms. Thank you to all that explained to me the dangers of him reloading for others.

If there is any "consideration" you would be loading commercially. Even your relatives could sue if something went wrong. Distributing ammunition among family would probably qualify as personal use but a written letter to the BATFE would be the best way to back yourself up as not distributing commercially. The amount of legalese is ridiculous but we are dealing with the most corrupt, gun hating government ever.

David

[Alvin]

Just to give everyone an update, I am in the process of purchasing a Dillon 550 for my friend until the end of the month. I've missed out on a couple of good deals lately, but a very generous member has helped me make a purchase for my friend. Long story short, he wouldn't be able to purchase it until the end of the month which we all know would be gone by then. The member is letting me purchase it with a few days to pay. I'll leave him nameless for now, but it's not to hard to figure out. A standup guy helping a Marine. Kudos to him, and all the Cast Boolits members that are like family.

[David2011]

Congrats! You'll both be happy! My 550 is over 20 years old and runs like a Timex.

David

[Cadillo]

This is really comparing apples and oranges. I love my Co-Ax, but it is only used for precision rifle. My Rock Chucker does most of the heavy lifting and the progessives handle the volume.

Great answer! Same for me. Co-Ax for Bolt guns, and Rock Chucker for other chores. All handgun ammo, and only handgun ammo on my 550B's.