30-30 Dies

[Swamprat1052]

Okay I am officially loading bottleneck cases with cast boolits and I need some info. I have an old (really old) set of RCBS dies for my 30-30. First problem, it doesnt have an expander die for lead boolits. So far I have done ok without it, the gas check on the Soup Can boolit slides in the case with no problem. But I know I should be expanding them a little.

2nd problem: The seater plug is cutting into the nose of the boolit. I took some emory cloth and wrapped it around a pair of needle nose pliers and honed out the inside of the seater plug and it helped, its a lot better now but it still leaves a visable ring. I dont think its hurting accuracy but it could be.

I know RCBS sells the Cowboy Dies for this but I really dont want to spend $50 on a set of dies unless I have too. I got into this to save money, joke huh? Do the Lee 30-30 dies do the same thing? I know I can get a universal case expander for the Lee but if the seater die is gonna cut my bullet I dont see much point in going that way. I plan to get a 150 and 170 gr. flat nose mold for it too.

What do you guys use?

Swamprat

[sundog]

Swamprat, a twist of a needle nose plier in the case mouth should give you enough flare to do the job.

Chuck the seating stem in a drill and put a piece of emory or crocus on top of the boolit. Hone that puppy down until you're satisfied. (If it were a Lee die, simply turn the seating over and use the flat end.)

Like you, I wouldn't spend that much on 'cowboy dies' either. Use those resources for something else.

[James C. Snodgrass]

I use a lot of Lee dies but I've got RCBS also and most others. I don't think the problem is only one brand, I use a universal neck expander from Lee for most everything, I do have Lyman "M" dies and haven't had good luck with them. To prevent the bullet nose damage I remove the seating stem and apply hot glue to the stem and then press the bullet to it and form the stem to the bullet . Then when you change nose profile you redo the process. Good luck& good shootin James

[beemer]

A Lyman M die will expand the neck and flare the case to except lead boolits without shaving the lead. They were about $15 the last time I checked.

My RCBS 30-30 seater does the same thing on every boolit I have. They offer alternate plugs but I don't know if there is one to solve our problem. I will probably put the plug in a drill press and put some grinding compound on the nose of a boolit and lap to fit.

It does save money, if I shot this much without reloading we would go hungry.

beemer

[1hole]

I use and love the Lyman "M" dies for expanders for all my rifle loading as well as for handgun. Used correctly, I can't imagine what problem the "M" die could cause.

I've removed the expander balls from all my dies and use the "M" as a seperate step in the process because I get less neck distortion (pulled and bent) with that expander rather than normal expander balls. The "M" expander stem pushes IN the neck, rather than OUT, and has a gentle entry angle so necks are less likely to be disturbed as much. Dragging the standard expander ball through a sized neck is almost guaranteed to move one side of the neck more than the other. A universal decapper takes my primers out.

The short "M" expander section that enlarges the neck just a tad larger than bullet diameter allows ALL bullets, lead and jacketed, to enter the neck without damaging the base of the bullet.

Damage to a bullet's base WILL affect accuracy, the slight nose ring from the bullet seater stem won't.

[mtgrs737]

Swamprat,

I have just started to load 30-30 and I got a Lee universal expanding die that was cheap (less than $10) and it works fine. A slight ring on the bullet nose probably won't hurt anything but if if bugs you try using quick set epoxy to re-shape the seater plug (use the bullet to create a custom plug, just be sure to use a release agent on the nose of the boolit). If you want to go back to the way it was just heat it and the epoxy will come off.

[nicholst55]

I bought a .311" expander plug for my RCBS .30-30 dies; solved that problem. Take your seating stem out and degrease it. Apply a dab of quick setting epoxy in the dimple; now press it onto the nose of a boolit that you have waxed. You now have a one-off custom seating screw!

[Swamprat1052]

Thanks for the tips guys. I hadnt thought about hot glue or epoxy but that should work. Sundog my resources are kinda slim, but I am tight as the bark on a elm tree anyway, its in the blood.

Beemer I didnt mean that shooting cast boolits aint cheaper, but I wonder sometimes how much money I am saving. lol. Oh well a man's gotta do something, it might as well be something he enjoys.

Swamprat

[MtGun44]

+1 on the Lee Universal Expander die. Works for all calibers, Lyman M dies
are caliber specific.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

never tried the lee expander die but i do use lyman m dies and like them

[dubber123]

I finaly got one of the Lee universal expanders, and it's pretty slick, (and cheap), and will work on everything from .22 to .45.

[EMC45]

+1 on the Lee Universal!!

[725]

+1 on using the nose of your chosen bullet to lap the seater for a perfect match. Nose deformation has much less effect on accuracy than base deformation, but still I like it to look good. To bell a case without any spent money, I have placed a primed case on a Lee depriming fixture (only to keep the live primer away from any possibility of functioning) and used a smooth cone (ie. large punch, .375 jacketed bullet, etc.) and tapped it with a hammer to just start a flare. Keeps fom shaving lead. Too heavy a hand and, of course, you get too much flare on the case mouth.

[1hole]

OK, I didn't say exactly why I prefer the M die to the Lee Universal Expander. Maybe I should.

All expanders I know of except the Lyman, and Redding's copy of it, simply flare the case mouth. That makes consistant flaring totally dependant on consistant case length, and that rarely happens, so flare varies considerably unless we trim all cases to the length of the shortest. I don't like to do that.

Most of my case failures occur due to overworking the brass and the M die does the job with minimum work on the mouth. The M die has a two-diameter expander plus a flaring cone. The first portion is normal size for the bullet and the second step is a few thousants over bullet diameter. That second step is maybe .050" long and above that step is an actual flaring cone to be used only if it's needed. That means cases can vary .050" in length without affecting the amount of mouth flare/expansion. I rarely need to flare because the second diameter works so well.

NO other expander works so well and I'm surprised that no one but Redding (for their pistol dies) have copied it.

It's worth mentioning that Lee's Factory Crimp Die is also less case length depandant than other crimpers. I use one of those for everything I crimp.