"The World Wars" is a hoot

[376Steyr]

History Channel is running a 6 hour mini-series, trying to condense WW1 and WW2 into a bunch of short clips of the lives of the world leaders. It is more docu-drama than documentary, with lots of historical mistakes of the events and lots of short cuts using stock footage. I really liked the clip from "The Wild Bunch" used to symbolize the Mexico Expedition of 1916. The mistakes in the firearms are entertaining too. Ones I spotted:
British troops using 1903 Springfields in 1914
Americans using Lee-Enfields
SMLEs being reloaded with magazines instead of stripper clips
Lots of flipped pictures with the troops suddenly shooting left handed military rifles
Chrome plated parade rifles in the trenches
Anybody else watching this and laughing?

[jcwit]

History Channel is running a 6 hour mini-series, trying to condense WW1 and WW2 into a bunch of short clips of the lives of the world leaders. It is more docu-drama than documentary, with lots of historical mistakes of the events and lots of short cuts using stock footage. I really liked the clip from "The Wild Bunch" used to symbolize the Mexico Expedition of 1916. The mistakes in the firearms are entertaining too. Ones I spotted:
British troops using 1903 Springfields in 1914
Americans using Lee-Enfields
SMLEs being reloaded with magazines instead of stripper clips
Lots of flipped pictures with the troops suddenly shooting left handed military rifles
Chrome plated parade rifles in the trenches
Anybody else watching this and laughing?

YA! It's tv AKA entertainment!

Overall the History standpoint and the why things went the way they did is pretty spot on.

No reason to laugh over the largest loss of life in the history of the world.

[Thin Man]

Yes, it is condensed. Even with that I am getting a refresher in history (errors excepted) and the flow from event to event with cause and result are really easy to follow. There are a lot of parallels with what we are seeing in the world now, just hope we don't have a repeat of past conflict history.

Thin Man

[jcwit]

There are a lot of parallels with what we are seeing in the world now, just hope we don't have a repeat of past conflict history.

Thin Man

I sure pray we do not as a repeat and the use of nerve gas and nuclear weapons would make the causalities of WWI & WW2 seem insignificant.

[Freightman]

I sure pray we do not as a repeat and the use of nerve gas and nuclear weapons would make the causalities of WWI & WW2 seem insignificant.
Amen! a new WW would be the end of civilization as we know it. A civil war would pale the causalities of the last, there has to be a better way.

[rockrat]

Saw a few of the goofs on rifles, and the mag loading and thought ??????. Oh well, its TV

[captbligh]

Stephen Hunter had a great quote on "Midway USA Gun Stories" that said WWI was the stupidest waste of lives caused by a couple of cousins who got in an argument who just happened to be kings.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Sometimes the soldiers were shooting bolt action 22s and I saw one German soldier shooting a rifle with either a Krag or Springfield bolt. I am referring to the knob on the end of the bolt. As far as the facts go I think they did a pretty good job. They did portray Stalin as a strongman when in realty he was a paranoid wuss. When the other soviet leaders came to see him after the German attack they found a simpering mass of jelly unable to make any sensible decisions. He owed Russia's survival to Generals like Zukoff. After the war He gave Zukoff a medal then shipped him to the boonies. He would have killed him but he thought he might need him in case he had to fight the Americans.

[NWPilgrim]

Just saw George Patton shooting at Mexican bandits with a SMLE. Must have been a reverse lend lease deal to help us fight Pancho Villa. Yesterday saw a squad of Germans in WWII all with SMLEs. British studio must be short on small arms.

[Postalpaul]

Man that's disappointing I was looking forward to it
It's on the DVR

[popper]

Actually, historically it's pretty good. They missed the part about Ferdinand trying to really help the people, why the Turks joined with the Axis. Pretty good about the effect of weaponry, solutions to trench warfare (they didn't learn in WWII). Portrayed Chamberlain & others very well, don't know how accurate the 'gassing' of Hitler was. Didn't talk much about Wilson decimating the US military. I just saw the first part but I expect the treatment of Monty & DeGaulle will be better than they deserve. It also shows most politicians are lousy leaders.

[montana_charlie]

That first installment had Patton as the main mover in development of the tank.
I was pretty certain that Churchill was one of the early experimenters with that concept.
As a matter of fact, I was sure that Churchill's bunch chose 'tank' as the name so that nobody would know what they were working on.

In the TV production, no connection between Churchill and tanks was mentioned, at all.

[jcwit]

Once again it's TV also known as entertainment.

Has anyone EVER watched a movie, or TV show that was entirely correct in everything?

[Hogtamer]

A few years ago I read a book "Back to the Front" by Stephen O'Shea about WWI. The guy literally walked the old trenches from belgium to Switzerland and recounts the horrific carnage in a profound way. The guy is pretty much a pacifist but of the 1000s of books I've read about warfare throughout history this is perhaps the most moving. I've read it several times since. Warning, find your dictionary if you trust my recommendation.

[10x]

Once again it's TV also known as entertainment.

Has anyone EVER watched a movie, or TV show that was entirely correct in everything?

Just living up to the Standards set on CNN......

[Lee]

As long as they get "most" all the politically comments right, I don't care if they were using taurus and rossi weapons. I've been watching. It's an interesting perspective on what was going on, and how it went down.

THEY GOT THE WHOLE CHAMBERLAIN (SPINELESS) THING RIGHT.
JMHO!

[Col4570]

There was a whole swathe of Americans who tried to stop any intervention in WW2.Some where Nazi supporters.Here in the UK we had Oswald Moseley who was a fascist rabble rouser and had followers who would have joined the Nazis.We here are gratefull to the USA for entering the war and throwing their industrial and Military might into the conflict.But for the USA and the Comonwealth we would have sunk under the Nazi Jackboot.Many Brave US Troops lost their lives during that war they will never be forgotten.

[Newtire]

History is more important than you think. My Daughter is a well paid scientist now but during her High School years, they lumped the wars together such that she asked me if Vietnam was a part of WWII. Make sure you talk to your kids and that you have your facts straight-lest history repeats itself.

[Lee]

Newtire. Correct! I didn't really care for History and Geography in HS. Sorry now I didn't pay more attention. It's true, those who don't study their History are doomed to repeat it.

And it's scary to watch some of the political machinations back then being repeated now! All to the same end.......................

And I also would gently suggest those posting this thread post their approximate age. It might be interesting to see how the perspective varies with the birth line. You know, baby-boomers, GenX, GenY, Millenials, etc??? It can give a different perspective on how you view History(or were taught it!)
Im 65.

[Don Purcell]

Newtire, I hear you. My senior year in high school we were leading up to World War II in history class and I thought, finally something I could dig my fingers into. I was sick ONE day and when I came back the next day it was over. What the... How could you possibly cover the biggest event of the 20th century in one day?

[Wayne Smith]

Agreed, I fault the tech advisers and the procurment people involved in the production. Given the challenge of reducing two world wars into six hours and showing the connections - well, I hope I could do near as well!

[dakotashooter2]

It's funny how fate works.........Hitler should have bit the dust at least twice before he ever came to power. Probably made him a little overconfident.

[ole 5 hole group]

Read Diana West's published book "American Betrayal" for a little more accurate account of soviet activity in our Government. Lot's of information out there from the files and archives of the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries after the wall fell. Only problem is no one will correct the history books to reflect that information.

[Brett Ross]

I could not take it anymore after the 2nd night. I was already struggling with the German solders’ using Enfield’s, Americans using what ever and Brits loading Enfield’s with clips. The straw that broke the camels back was Chamberlin flying to Munich in a Lancaster and the Luftwaffe bombing Russia with a 4 engine bomber, which profile looked to be a B17. My god you call your-self the history channel , if you wont take the time to get these oblivious details correct , can I trust anything you are trying to tell me.

[Col4570]

I was aged 8 When WW2 Ended.Our Dad had been sent to Africa Northern Nigeria Training Colonial Troops.I remember at home in England The rest of us cowering in cellars and air Raid Shelters.I distinctly remember when the Luftwaffe Flattening one side of Rugby Street in Derby where we lived,people where killed.The Bombs where intended for the Rolls Royce Factory where Spitfire Engines where made.When the War ended Dad came home suffering from Malaria, each year he had bouts of illness deriving from the Malaria.He died aged 46,we think from his service in Africa.At the Age of 15 I became an apprentice fitter and worked with a a lot of men who had served in the armed forces some in the German theatre of war and some in the Japanese .At 16 my dad died,I had a Mother and two sisters.Iwould throw my wages onto the sideboard to supplement the meagre income of the house.Hard times but you get through them and improve and make sure that no Megalomaniac gangsters will ever again try it on with our nation.

[Lee]

Be glad you don't have Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer, Rangel, Waters, Moonbeam, Bloomberg, etc. to cope with................ Sorry, getting political......

[jcwit]

I could not take it anymore after the 2nd night. I was already struggling with the German solders’ using Enfield’s, Americans using what ever and Brits loading Enfield’s with clips. The straw that broke the camels back was Chamberlin flying to Munich in a Lancaster and the Luftwaffe bombing Russia with a 4 engine bomber, which profile looked to be a B17. My god you call your-self the history channel , if you wont take the time to get these oblivious details correct , can I trust anything you are trying to tell me.

If they tried to show the real true aspect of war it would not be allowed on television.

[Lee]

Agreed!

[Blacksmith]

I struggled with Hitler training for WW I with a 1903 Springfield but the one that did it for me was Patton in WW I riding into battle behind the turret of a WW II Stewart.

They couldn't dig up a few Mausers for the whole German army and when they had the right rifles the wrong soldiers were shooting them. I can forgive things like flipping the film resulting in left hand actions in the editing process but when you have the right rifles in the wrong hands someone is not doing their History homework.

[Ben]

Blacksmith

I noticed that also.
A bit sad when you're doing a historical documentary that is historically incorrect.

Ben

[jcwit]

What do you expect when history is no longer taught in schools, and after all this was produced in California.

We have a new generation that has no clue.

And some of you are amazed???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????

[Springfield]

Just for fun, while my 11 year old son and I were watching, instead of telling him which rifles were wrong, I just put a #1 Enfield on one side of his chair and a Mauser on the other. We looked them over after it was over. Made me realize I REALLY need to get an Springfield, and in the WW2 installment I have a #4 Enfield to show him but no Garand. Dang, it is really hard to get one of everything!

[jcwit]

I have one of each, plus the 2 different Italian Carcano's, the French MAS, the 2 Japanese Arisaka rifles and the Russian Mosin-Nagant.

Yes there were many errors, but, but, but?????????????????????????

[Brett Ross]

What just made me crazy was they seemed to have the correct stuff. They were just too lazy or stupid, to put the correct equipment, in the correct hands. Another issue was the use of stock footage. There is so much CORRECT stock footage available; I see no excuse not to have accurate representation of who used what equipment and when it was used. It was just sooooo sloppy. If this was on a network which did not bill it-self as the HISTORY channel I would be more forgiving, but it was not.
Tony

[Elkins45]

You guys are hyper enthusiasts so you notice every small detail. I know a gal who can't watch many historical movies because the costume department put historically incorrect shoes on the actresses.

Sometimes you have to ignore the trees so you can enjoy the forest.

[2wheelDuke]

You guys are hyper enthusiasts so you notice every small detail. I know a gal who can't watch many historical movies because the costume department put historically incorrect shoes on the actresses.

Sometimes you have to ignore the trees so you can enjoy the forest.

When I was a high school kid in literature class, they mentioned a topic called the "suspension of disbelief." It certainly applies when watching TV. The first time I really remember applying it outside of the classroom was the movie "The Matrix" when people were flying around and doing Kung-Fu. Then it turned out that they didn't do that stuff in real life, but in some computer simulation. That's a good example of where holding off on throwing up the BS flag went a long way towards enjoying the show.

[Garyshome]

I thought it was entertaining!

[LynC2]

I struggled with Hitler training for WW I with a 1903 Springfield but the one that did it for me was Patton in WW I riding into battle behind the turret of a WW II Stewart.

They couldn't dig up a few Mausers for the whole German army and when they had the right rifles the wrong soldiers were shooting them. I can forgive things like flipping the film resulting in left hand actions in the editing process but when you have the right rifles in the wrong hands someone is not doing their History homework.

I feel the same way, there were so many obvious errors that it ruined it for me and I stopped watching it.
It sure didn't help to see Patton in WW I riding into battle behind the turret of a WW II Stewart. :groner:

[jcwit]

I thought it was entertaining!

Yes, and it is TV, produced in California after all.

Ya know, in reality you can pick apart any show on tv, no matter what's it about.

BTW, check out your kids history book and see how accurate that is.

[popper]

Saw the second part, was just made to make FDR look intelligent. I guess if he is your idol you can't vilify him. You do know that he turned back a shipload of Jews and would not sign off on making Israel a country (went along with the Brits, or maybe the Brits went along with him)? Truman had NO problem supporting Israel.

[Elkins45]

BTW, check out your kids history book and see how accurate that is.

How would we even know? How do we know that what we were taught was even remotely accurate? I started elementary school in 1967 and I have no idea if the Commies had already started messing with the books back then.

There's a song for about 15 years ago with a line in it that says "all we are is what we're told, and most of that's been lies." I sometimes wonder how much of what I 'know' isn't really true it all.

[jcwit]

You sound like a very confused person.

[Elkins45]

You sound like a very confused person.

"Few people know less than those who think they know it all"

Somebody taught you the version of history you would compare your kid's textbook to: how do you really know that what you were taught is accurate? We all can be somewhat confident of our knowledge of the stuff that happened in our lifetime, but for anything that happened before we are at the mercy of the people who wrote the books we learned from.

The thread is drifting a bit here, so I will try to drive it back a little: I would rather watch a flawed program about an important subject than a perfect one about something meaningless. I know it's a false choice, but I can overlook editing mistakes by people who don't know much about guns if the overall product is otherwise sound.

[jcwit]

Are you implying I'm one who thinks they know it all?

[Elkins45]

Are you implying I'm one who thinks they know it all?

Not at all. I'm saying that it's hard to be sure that the things we 'know' from history are actually true.