Straight Wall Cartridge for Ohio Deer

[Gorby83]

Hey all,
I am a new guy here, and just posted an introduction in the test area (I think that is the right area to put it).

Anyway, as my title suggested I am looking for a rifle to take advantage of the newly passed straight wall hunting cartridge law in ohio. I have narrowed it down to three choices and was wondering if I could get some input as to which you would choose and why. They are .357mag, .44mag, and .375win. I would most likely be working up loads for all of them, and I do not have any equipment to cast my own, so I would be starting with commercially available cast bullets.

Thanks,
Chris

[quilbilly]

Missed a couple. 357 Maximum and 444 which are also a favorites around here. Probably the most available on the market in stores or gun shows are the 44 and 444. Any of the ones mentioned above will work just fine on deer but if you have ambitions of larger or tougher game, the 444 is worth a longer look plus the cast 429 boolit is very forgiving for the caster just getting started.

[45coltnut]

Hi Chris and welcome. I'll forewarn you, casting boolits is a very addictive hobby :)

I'm assuming you plan on using any of the three cartridges in a rifle? With that, the below is simply my opinion and only mine. Also, I will admit that I have only taken one Western KY deer with any of the three you have listed (44 mag).

For big Ohio deer, I would stay with either the 44mag or 375win. Now, I say this tongue and cheek as I plan to take a deer next year with a .357 pistol. But, it will not be my primary gun and the conditions will need to be right or else I'll pass or use my rifle.

The 44 and 375 are very different to me. I would consider the 44mag to be a 100yd or closer cartridge. And, with the large assortment of readily available jacketed and cast bullets available this could be a very good choice. And, the 375 with a good peep sight or even scope will provide much more distances which I can see beneficial in the flat land of OH. The 375 is a fine cartridge. The only issue I could foresee you possibly having (being new to it) is the bore size. I think you should be OK with most guns as the bores should be .378 or under (I think). Therefore, finding bullets shouldn't be hard. I personally like the 38 (375) caliber rifle. I love my 38-55! And, you can always load up some heavy 300 grainers if you'd like.

So, my choice would be the .375win. Again, this is just my opinion and I hope it helps.

[Gorby83]

Other than TC, is the .357max available in rifle form? Also, I may have been hasty in excluding the .444, I just don't want to get too much recoil out of what will end up being a lightweight cartridge.

[Gorby83]

And yes, it will be a rifle. I should have stated that in my original post.

[runfiverun]

if your having it made.
the 375 super mag would be about as good as it gets out to 150 yds.
you just trim back 375 win brass and go from there.

the 357 max is easily made by reaming out a 357 mag rifles chamber.
the 44 is bigger than the 35, and the 45 is bigger than the 44.
pick one go with it and have fun they will all do the job [except maybe the 357 [dunno].................shrug

[Gorby83]

I might be missing something, but won't the added length of the .357max cause feeding issues in anything but a single shot?

[jhalcott]

You CAN get lever rifles in 357mag, 44 mag, 444 and 45-70. NONE of these are considered "long range" caliber today. I'd probably go for the 44 mag. Not as brutal recoil as the bigger rounds but quite accurate to about 125 or even 150 yards in the right hands. Components are every where, LOTS of empties can be found on the range for free. Many casters are selling good bullets for a decent price.

[country gent]

DO some research in reloading manuals and on the internet. Ohio deer arnt armor plated. A soft lead rifle bullet placed right will more than do the job. 357 mag would be minimum in my mind. When I was hunting I stand hunted and waited for the deer to come to me picking placement and range. Also allowed me to take it where hopefull the front end loader on the tractor could get to it LOL. Look at several cartridges 357 in the upper versions. 44 mag and 444 marlin are available and can be found, 375 winchester or a really neat older round the 38-55. Also 45s as in 45 colt 45-70, 45-90 aot of cartridge there but can be loaded down to 45-70 performance pretty easy. The allowed 50s are pretty recoil intensive and more than needed. One Im working on didnt make the list 40-65 win. Most of the cast bullets available from shops are hard cast and will give little expansion. Buffalo Arms co. sells bullets cast from 20-1 lead tin lubed with spgAs long as leading isnt an issue these should offer some expansion and work reliably. A 38-55 or 375 win with a 250-300 grn bullet 20-1 at around 1200-1250 should be very effective on deer sized game while not being excessive recoil. What tupes of rifles are you considering? Lever pump, single shot, break open or falling block. WHat sights are you wanting to use, scope, buckhorn style, peep/appeture, front blade appeture/globe? Hit gun shows and handle some see what feels right and fits while 30-30 isnt legal a 94 or marlin in 30-30 will be very close to one in 375 or 38-55 or even 45-70. Sharps, high walls, rolling blocks and alot of the single shots can be heavy wieght wise for hunting. But the added wieght also deadens recoil impulses. Handle and if possible try some diffrent ones.

[Gorby83]

I have seen some pretty interesting data on the hotter .357mag loads, but the farm where I hunt goes from heavy cover to wide open pasture/hayfield in a few different places, which is why I would really like to be able to reach the 200yd mark. That would probably be the range limit I would be comfortable shooting to. With that in mind, I should probably remove the .357mag and .44mag. Most likely the platform would be a lever gun, although in the .357/.44mag the Ruger M77/357 and M77/44 would be high on my list as well. Sights would consist of a receiver mounted rear sight like the Williams or Skinner combined with a square post front sight. Mounting a 1-4x scope or possibly a scout scope would also be a consideration/eventuality.

[JSH]

As mentioned above deer are not armor plated. I have a couple of marlin lever guns 357 and 44. Have taken deer with both using cast. Both take on a bit more than in a wheel gun. I actually like the 357 loaded with 180's more than the 44.
Last year same load out of my gp100 did in a one at about 80 yards. I hunted with a revolver a lot in the late 80's and it was fun to get back after it again.
Jeff

[micky_blue]

Where are you at? I have a Marlin 375 with ammo and dies for sale. I am also in Columbus if you are close by.

[Gorby83]

Down by Chillicothe, could you inbox me the info on your rifle and pics?

[Cornbread]

Is 45-70 not an option for you? I have used mine(lever action Marlin pre-remlin) to take a number of very heavy Montana bucks with open sights. A 250gr or 300gr bullet it will easily take deer out to 200 yards or more, especially if you put a good peep or scope on it. If you want to elk, bear or moose hunt out to 200 yards with your rifle eventually I'd stick with 45-70, or 444.

Personally I love the 45-70 for how versatile it is load and bullet selection wise for reloading I can go from a 250gr bullet to a 400gr bullet if I want but I also don't have a 444 or a 375 so I can't give you much info on them other than those two were on my list of potential calibers when I bought mine. I went with the 45-70 purely for versatility because I reload and shoot a lot, I want a lot of options for maximum fun. If this is purely a deer rifle out to 200 yards I think you would be fine with any of the three: 45-70, 444, or 375 if you want to stick with fairly easy to find calibers.

If you want to get into the odd calibers like 45-90, 38-55, 40-65 etc. then you are opening a whole other ball of wax and I can't give you any help there as I have never owned any of those.

[quilbilly]

I have two loads for my 444 and they have nearly the same point of aim at 100 yards. One uses 5744 with a 240 gr SWC plain base at 1250 fps and the other is the 310 gr. RNFP with the gas check with 4198 at 1900 fps for elk. The lighter load with the plain base boolit will work fine on deer out to 100 yards, has light recoil, and is just plain fun to shoot. The 310 heavier loads still isn't bad for recoil and has leveled our larger bodied Roosevelt elk for me on several occasions either in that rifle or in a sabot with my muzzleloader depending on the season I choose. The 444 is nice because you have such a wide variety of boolits you can cast.

[9.3X62AL]

Given the circumstances you describe, the 45-70 seems like "best of breed" for your purposes. Those last 50 yards of the 200 yard danger space you are selecting are going to complicate your question greatly--you will need to boost velocity significantly to flatten trajectory for that distance, which will increase recoil impulse. No free lunch. 100-150 yards with "standard weight" bullets at 1880s velocities isn't difficult, but from 150-200 yards such bullets begun at 1250-1300 FPS REALLY nose-dive on you.

[Dan Cash]

Down by Chillicothe, could you inbox me the info on your rifle and pics?

Gorby, Here is the answer to your dreams. The .375 is a better round than most folks recognise and will kill anything you want to kill in this hemisphere. Jump on the offer though, I have no emotional or monetary interesste in this offer.
Dan.

[DeanWinchester]

Here ya go! 2 days left on this auction for an 1874 Sharps in 50-140. It's a straight wall and will have no issues at what ever ranges you choose to shoot at. Plenty for deer, moose, elk, elephant, brontosaurus, Mothra, .....probably need a follow up shot for Godzilla. LOL!!!


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=418594610

[Digital Dan]

Gorby,

With exception of the .357 Mag any of the cartridges mentioned above will kill just fine out to 200 yards if you can put the bullet where it belongs. Maybe even the .357 but I would be reluctant to recommend that one. The Maximum, yes, just not the standard mag cartridge.

Hitting the target at 200 yards or points in between with any straight wall cartridge is a matter of knowing your gun and load, having the right bullet and being able to read wind. No exceptions.

As mentioned above, a soft lead bullet will do the trick at modest velocity. They will also shoot accurately is properly loaded, evidence being the BPCR circuit where 1000 yard matches are fairly common and well shot with the likes of the .45-70. As far as terminal performance, I've been shooting a .44 mag for quite a few years, MV near 1600 fps with a .300 grain pure lead paper patched bullet. It is an MOA combo and I'd not hesitate to shoot a deer or hog out to 200 yards because I know the drops at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards. Got enough brain cells still working to interpolate intermediate ranges. Because it behaves like it has a BC of .240 I also know the drift.

Have also done a bit of work with a Marlin 1895 CB in .45-70 with 510 grain paper patch (~1800 fps) and would have complete confidence in that gun to ranges beyond 200 yards with its tang sight. For what it's worth and as I perceive it, the Marlin (~8 pounds) has less recoil than the .44 (~6 pounds). Probably fit has more to do with that than the ballistic numbers.

My suggestion is that you concern yourself less with the cartridge and more with the quality of the gun, loads and your abilities. 200 yards ain't all that far.

[Gorby83]

Here ya go! 2 days left on this auction for an 1874 Sharps in 50-140. It's a straight wall and will have no issues at what ever ranges you choose to shoot at. Plenty for deer, moose, elk, elephant, brontosaurus, Mothra, .....probably need a follow up shot for Godzilla. LOL!!!


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=418594610

.50-140... What is the OAL on that??

[Gorby83]

The .375 is a better round than most folks recognise and will kill anything you want to kill in this hemisphere.
Dan.

This is what I have been thinking... I looked into the .444 and .45-70, but at least with the .444, recoil looked to be at least 1.5x the .375...

[Gorby83]

My suggestion is that you concern yourself less with the cartridge and more with the quality of the gun, loads and your abilities. 200 yards ain't all that far.

I agree with you, I am probably just driving myself insane looking for "the ultimate" cartridge.... I have made my mind up though that I will not be going any larger than .375

[kenyerian]

Three of my friends have recently bought Ruger Bolt Actions in 44 mag and are very happy with them. I'm leaning that way myself although Ive always wanted a 45-70.

[DougGuy]

I would x out the .357 mag from that list. There are a handful of cartridges that already have it beat. I think out of the ones you listed, the .375 will be the most practical for the maximum ranges you hunt at. For the shorter ranges, hard to be a heavily loaded .44 magnum.

[9.3X62AL]

Truth to tell, I'm in a similar mode to Gorby with my rebored Win 94 in 38-55. I've run a couple hundred plain-base Lee 250 grainers through it from 1200-1350 FPS, and I've been happy with the groups at 50 and 100 yards. I would very happily hunt deer with these loads up to those ranges; they put a pretty good THUMP on iron targets, even at those modest velocities. Next phase will involve gas-checked 250 grain-class bullets by Lyman and RCBS, to see how they fly at 1700-1800 FPS.......how they group.......and how ballistics holds up at 200 yards. At 1300 FPS, the Lees add about 3.5"-4.0" of drop at 150 yards from the 100 yard POA/POI setting on the rifle's open irons.

[goofyoldfart]

Gorby: The Ultimate Cartidge is----------------------5,6,7,10 or more of all the favorite rifle that this wonderful addiction will start you on the trip of collection addiction. LOL. God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy aka Godfrey :)

[daniel lawecki]

I'm a 44 mag shooter so a lever gun would do it for me. Bullet something around 225 = 240 wouldn't be afraid of 100 - 150 yard shot. It's shot placement that comes with alot of practice.

[357maximum]

It looks like Southern Michigan is about to havea similar law but we will be limited to STRAIGHTWALL ONLY and a MAXIMUM case length of 1.8 inch in 35cal or larger.

I have a nice old 44MAG Ruger Carbine (tube mag),and a Marlin 20 inch 357MAG Cowboy and I would not feel handicapped with a 180-200 yard shot with either of them with my upper end cast loads. That being said I am still toying with the idea of a 375WIN trimmed to 1.8 and run through a rebored Marlin 336, already bought the donor rifle and 50 pcs of brass in fact. :smile:

I have killed deer out to 240yards with a Full Bull 15 inch MGM 357MAX Encore and 180 grain castboolit, so if I was a smart man I would just buy a longer MGM tube in 357MAX for my Encore, but what fun would that be? With practice and intimate knowledge of the tool you are carrying a 357Mag shooting 180grain cast or a 44MAG shooting 240-250 grain cast are still going to be very effective tools for turning deer into venison. I shot a previously wounded button buck at 130 yards last year with a 357Mag 10 inch contender and it was a one shot one kill deal......learn to use the tool at hand and you might just surprise yourself with what is possible.

[quilbilly]

Years ago I worked out a table of the various calibers I owned for deer hunting modern style and used my experiences as a muzzleloader putting a couple dozen deer on the ground with 45 and 50 caliber PRB's in rifles. The table showed the minimum terminal velocities I would need for each caliber from 6mm on up to do the job with average if not well placed projectile. This is only an opinion of course but in the case of your 429 - 240 gr boolit, that would be about 900 FPS at the maximum range you intend to shoot for deer (elk a lot higher). One of the reasons I did this is that in my old age, I no longer believe in beating myself up with recoil if I don't have to. If you think your maximum range is going to be 200 yards, you only need to push that 240 gr. 429 boolit out of your rifle at just under 1400 fps. Very manageable recoil wise. Similarly, my reasoning with a 357 maximum or mag with a 160 SWC would be a minimum terminal velocity of just under 1100 fps on the conservative side since I took a few deer years ago with my 45 muzzleloader with saboted 357 CB's.

[357maximum]

QUILLBILLY....thank you for the nice common sense moment, much appreciated thought process you have displayed there. I have frequently been accused of using too light a tackle for deer, so your post above made me smile a bit of relief that there is still some hope out there. THANK YOU

[quilbilly]

Thank YOU for the kind words. You are welcome in my duck blind anytime.

[Jeffrey]

Some friends and I got into 444s for Mississippi primitive season use: CVA single shots. We have driven bullets the length of deer (from the front) broadsides are always pass throughs. The thing I like about the 444 is that you can open the throttle for long range / bigger game or download very easily for shorter range, practice, or young'uns to shoot.

[cattleskinner]

Mike, how fast is your 15 inch max handgun shooting the 180 grainers?

[357maximum]

Mike, how fast is your 15 inch max handgun shooting the 180 grainers?


MGM Full Bull 15 inch Encore (custom short throat)
Glenn Larsen C-358-180 @ 0.360 (WD'ed 50/50 coww/lead)
22.5 Gr. Vhit N-120
Rem 7.5 Sparkplug
AVG Vel= 2152 FPS
Consistent minute of GolfBall @100 with older 2X8 Leopold, consistent 3.5 inch steel plate accurate @ 250-300 yards

[jlchucker]

A 45-70 can be used in lots of places, on a wide range of game or other targets. It's proven its worth over a time period exceeding a century, and can be loaded for anything from field mice to dinosaurs (if you can find the latter to hunt LOL). There are lots of molds for lots of boolits available, and loading data the covers any kind of shooting you want to do. If I lived in a state that said I needed to use nothing but straight-walled ammo, that would be my caliber of choice. Especially if I wanted to hunt in some other state someday.

[bikerbeans]

Gorby,

If I had to choose from Ohio's list it would be between either the 45-70, 444M or 375W for Ohio deer. I would make my decision based on availability of components so the 45-70 would be my choice. Since I didn't have to choose just one I have all 3 in Marlin LGs. Until last Saturday I was all set on using my 45-70 this fall but my son decided it was his goto gun so I am going to use the 444s.

If you are looking for a levergun then you are more likely to get a better price on a 45-70 than any of the other cartridges. The pistol caliber LGs tend to be even more pricey than the 3 I have mentioned.

Good luck with your rifle search and with your hunting this fall.

BB

[Green Monster]

Have you thought about getting a handi rifle. It comes in most of the calibers listed above and you can swap between them pretty easily. 357-44-444-45/70 not to mention all the bottle neck cartridges and shotshells for large game and range plinking. It is a single shot rifle but all it takes is one well placed shot to do the job. Might be worth checking out. Im in the market for one just because of how flexible it can be.

[Outpost75]

I'm in West VA and not affected by this law, but have enjoyed reading the discussion. If I were in your situation I would feel very adequately armed with my scoped .44 Magnum Handi-Rifle firing 270-grain LBT Wide Flatnosed bullets at 1600 fps. The .375 Win. would also be a very good choice with similar bullet weight, shape and velocity.

Have not killed any game beyond 150 yards with mine, but have no trouble ringing the 12" steel gong at 200 meters, so it would do the job.

Fun thread! Carry on Gentlemen....

[micky_blue]

Being in Ohio, I think I am going to use a 44 mag. Since I hunt at 50 yards max, I am likely going to shoot 44 specials with a big meplat.

[nekshot]

I have no bone in this deal but IF I was a ohio resident I would get a 444. I have always had one in the closet and they might be alittle under the 45-70 with reeeal heavy boolits, when it comes to white tail and shooting proper weight and design bullets these start looking like 30-06 performance. Just my thoughts on the ohio deal.

[45 2.1]

Truth to tell, I'm in a similar mode to Gorby with my rebored Win 94 in 38-55. I've run a couple hundred plain-base Lee 250 grainers through it from 1200-1350 FPS, and I've been happy with the groups at 50 and 100 yards. I would very happily hunt deer with these loads up to those ranges; they put a pretty good THUMP on iron targets, even at those modest velocities. Next phase will involve gas-checked 250 grain-class bullets by Lyman and RCBS, to see how they fly at 1700-1800 FPS.......how they group.......and how ballistics holds up at 200 yards. At 1300 FPS, the Lees add about 3.5"-4.0" of drop at 150 yards from the 100 yard POA/POI setting on the rifle's open irons.

You'll like the results Al.... go for it.

[country gent]

9.3 i watch several on the local shillouettes leauge shoot 38-55s with 300 grn bullets Several use the lyman 335 grainer, and even at 500 yds theres no doubt when they hit the swinging ram. Both visually and from the ring of the target. I ve veen watching this for awhile it proves what the caliber is capable of in the right hands. These old black powder rounds are second to none. More drop to deal with but if you do your homework a 200 yds shot isnt that far. I wouldnt hesitate to use a 38-55 for Ohio deer. Some load work and then a feew trips to the range to find actual zeros or drop and you should be good to go. Granted these ar highwalls and big single shots vut the cartridge is the same.

[skeettx]

I think the 375 Win or the 38-55 is a winner of a deer cartridge.
It is powerful enough and they are easy to load
Mike

[357maximum]

Thanks to Indiana and Ohio paving the way, and a whole lotta work by one good guy representing a grassroots effort as well as the will of the people:




Lori's Bill On Rifle Hunting Now A Rule
Friday Jun 13, 2014 7:47pm

By: Mike Stiles

(LANSING) – Legislation that allows rifles for hunting with special cartridges in the southern Lower Peninsula of Michigan is now a new rule.

House Bill 4283, introduced by State Representative Matt Lori of Constantine, is a new rule initiated by the Natural Resources Commission. Rifles had not been permitted for hunting in the southern half of the Lower Peninsula because of safety concerns with the higher population density. Only shotguns, muzzleloaders and some pistols could be used in that area.

Under the proposal, which will be on a trial basis until 2017, rifles that take .35 caliber or larger ammunition could be used in the southern zone as long as the cartridges used are straight walled with a minimum case length between 1.16 and 1.8 inches. Pistols employing similar straight walled cartridges are already allowed in the zone.

Lori says this is a victory for deer hunters in Southern Michigan and the communities that serve them during the hunting season. Lori says these communities are losing hunters to Indiana which makes small businesses, sporting goods stores and lodging accommodations miss out on economic opportunities during hunting season.

[clintsfolly]

WAHOo will not change how I hunt but give me more choices of guns. Clint

[ghh3rd]

and if you have very, very large deer, don't forget the 45-70 :shock:...

[45coltnut]

I'll second a 38-55!!

I just recently bought one and yesterday at the range I shot a three shot group at 100yds with 1.5" group using a new peep I installed. Low recoil, 1750 fps with a 255 grain lead bullet should do the job well.

[Weaponologist]

I recently bought a new Ruger 77/357 Carbine. I did some research before picking my 38/357 and the main reason for me was the ability to shot 38's.. From a Reloader's perspective there is just so many option for loading a Rifle in this cal, However, 100yards is the max on these 357 and 44 Carbines. Other cal's may give you more distance and far more knock down power.
As for me. I like the low recoil I get with 357 in a Rifle form. I'm working up loads using the Hornady FTX Boolits. Which are what's in there Leverevolution ammo.. I'm hoping as I learn more I can come up with a great Cast Boolit that will give me the accuracy and the power.. I'm still toying with lead in the 38's and need to learn more about Gas Checks before moving up to 357 in lead..

[altheating]

Weaponologist
I have been shooting the ruger 357/357 for the past 3-4 years with cast boolits only. The NOE 360-180 is all I use. For plinking and for hunting I use 8.5 grains of surplus 10b101 powder and wolf primers . About 1300 fps. I also shoot the 38's with the same boolit seated to 357 length and get about 150 fps more out of them. We are constantly hitting a 150 yard 6" gong. Very, very accurate! The 360-180 shoots equally well with or without gas checks. A friend just bought the same rifle last week, his gun shot the same load very well too. As far as the 44/77, I took a nice buck last year at 152 yards (checked with rangefinder) it punched straight threw him, he went 30 yards. That was a LBT boolit.

[Screwbolts]

Weaponologist

As altheating has written about hitting a 6" gong at 150 yards, reliable and repeatably, it was with 3 different shooters, his rifle and my bench and gongs. All shots were over my Crony, and it lived to be used another day. This was with his naked 180 gr boolitz, no checks. The only thing that I would like to ad or correct is, your choice on if add or correct, that my son, myself, and Altheating were actual shooting/hammering a 6" gong at 200 yards not 150. :-) My 150 gong is 10" and that hammering it was getting boring so we simply started shooting the 200 yd 6" gong.

My 200 yd bench is nestled in the shade of some maple, pine and ash trees on the edge of my back lawn. threw the scope on his rifle and my Burris 20X spotter scope in the afternoon we could watch the boolitz fly because of the suns position illuminating there bases. It was a great time hammering ar500 plates with every thing from Hornets plain and K'd, 222s,221s, 6mms and his Ruger thumper.

I have a lot of experiance with a 357 single shot rifle I built. I would not hessitate to drop the hammer at 200 yards with it and I only load the same boolit to 1200 out of my rifle. I also do realize that I have shoot well over 4000 rounds from my SS rifle and have taken 5 deer with it all over 100 yards away. My 84 year young father has taken 4 and assisted 2 nieces to their first harvest of deer with it. It wears an old Weaver 2.5X scope.

Please don't underestimate this caliber based on jacketed Magnum rifles.

Ken

[Drphilwv]

I had a custom mauser built in 450 Bushmaster. Now I guess I have a reason to hunt in Ohio!

[jason f]

I had a custom mauser built in 450 Bushmaster. Now I guess I have a reason to hunt in Ohio!

450 bm is a nogo. here is the list of calibers for rifles.

Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson. - See more at: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/straight-walled-cartridge-rifles-approved-hunting-white-tailed-deer-ohio#sthash.xaj1Fr7H.dpuf