sharps

[Turboman]

Allright guys lets here it,Im looking for another sharps 1874 model,Yeah I KNOW shilohhhhhhhhhhhh is one of the best,But ive shot and handled alot of PEDERSOLIS also and they are holding their own against the shilohs and c sharps down here for our fun matches,So what say u?Whats the pros and cons of both shiloh and pedersoli?Ive got a taylor&company and she shoots extremley well out to 300 yards which is the farthest ive shot her so far,But were gona be pushing them alot farther out and im looking to get one of the others.
thanks jeff

[montana_charlie]

Yeah I KNOW shilohhhhhhhhhhhh is one of the best,But ive shot and handled alot of PEDERSOLIS also and they are holding their own against the shilohs and c sharps down here for our fun matches,
Your use of the term 'down here' makes me think you might be in Australia.
If so, you know more than I about what it takes to get a Shiloh shipped in...but my impression is that it's pretty astonishing.

Bad Ass Wallace is an Aussie who seems to be content with his battery of Pedersolis, and I bet they will stand up in serious matches, just as well as they do in the fun ones.

I have only handled one Shiloh rifle, and didn't know enough about Sharps guns (then) to look at it with a critical eye. I might change my tune if I ever pick up another one, but for now I am satisfied with my Pedersoli...in all respects.
CM

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Like any rifle, you only get out what you put in. I tried for perfection for a number of years and things went better once I started to get the little extras that will turn a good rifle into a brilliant one.

I was fortunate enough to buy a Victory "PGT" mould for my 45/90 Pedersoli and shot it in Creedmoor 2006 with very good results out to 1000 yards.

I recently came across a Pedersoli Long Range for $AU1200 with all the gear, mould, sights, shells & dies. The owner said it was cheep because he couldn't get better than 8 inch groups. He had only ever used the Lyman mould 457673 a 400gn design suitable for lever guns.

I guess to summarise, buy a rifle of good quality, a mould to fit the rifle and load your cartridges with benchrest precision. Then go out and shoot the outfit until it feels like it belongs in your arms!

Pedersoli PGT mould - 540gn (in !:30 mix
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/PGTmold-1.jpg

[freedom475]

Both Pedersoli's 74 sharps that I have owned have been great. A 45-120 Quigley-this gun could shoot less than 1MOA at 100yrds. The other, a 45-70 Billy Dixson has gone on more hunting trips and been packed more miles,and taken more big game than any of my other guns... Pretty hard on my old dishwasher at 800yrds. too.

[Turboman]

Thanks for the comebacks guys,Down here means florida,Im looking at the pedersolis hard,The seem very well made,And their accuracy from what ive seen seem second to none.:-D Not ot mention the price is almost half a shiloh.:mrgreen:

[montana_charlie]

Turbo,
I see your avatar is a 'milder' version of the one used by Bad Ass Wallace.
Maybe we should call you Little Bad Ass, or Wee Wally.

I see you really are 'down here', and not 'down under'...

BAW,
I, too, shoot the PGT bullet. The ones I am using (right now) were cast in one of the loaner moulds that went around to introduce the design. My .45/90 chamber is not (strictly speaking) made for that bullet as it was deepened by a gunsmith from the original Pedersoli .45/70 depth.
But I can get excellent groups with the PGT, so it should work well in any brand of Sharps.

The venting channels on the loaner were quite different from the picture you posted, and the block size was a bit smaller. But it was the easiest casting iron mould I have ever used.
I did acquire a mould like yours...possibly the last one to leave the Victory shop...and expect it to make bullets that are as good as the ones I am shooting.

If anybody else wants a mould for the PGT bullet, Paul Jones has added the design to his list of standard moulds. As near as I can tell from the picture, it is an unmodified copy of the original specification.

CM

[KCSO]

So far I have had opportunity to use and shoot and repair C Sharps, Armi Sport, Pedratti, Pedersoli and original Sharps rifles both Bridgport and Meecham conversions, and two 50-70 carbines with mint bores. So I will offer my 2 cents worth.

The C Sharps i shot was the best of the bunch for fit and finish, but it didn't outshoot the Pedersoli that I shot at that time. Armi Sport guns are reliable but need tuning and the Taylor/EMF Pedratti guns are wall hangers without a LOT of work. My current Pedersoli will shoot into 1 1/2" at 100 yards if I do my part and it will put all its bullets into a 10" bull at 300 yards with room to spare. I love the workmanship of the High end guns but just can't justify them for my shooting. The BEST all round shooting Sharps replica I ever shot was a Pedersoli with a Badger barrel.

Now I am prepared for what this will bring but I will throw it out and let it splat. A good friend was a Sharps collector for many years and he started buying them when they weren't that popular. I got to shoot most of his guns and have handled them many times. I have shot matches with an original 50-70 carbine with a mint barrel and i just finised working up paper patch loads for a Meecham bufflao rifle. I have had them all apart and have made small parts for them when necessary. That said...

The original Sharps rifle was a factory made gun of no special workmanship and the Meecham's were sporterized military rifles. The Original Sharps rifles had a poor fring pin system and a weak extractor prone to let a shell slip by. I have never understood why the Sharps became the premier buffalo gun when there were rolling blocks available. Although Sharps factory quality was ahead of say, Savage rifles today it was no where near the quality of a C Sharps and the Pedersoli guns are for the most part every bit as good and maybe better than an original Sharps.

There I've said it I feel better, and am ready for the pillory.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

KC

Your comments are well founded and very true. I love all things old and have had the occasion to inspect just 2 originals, to concur with your findings.

I cannot get out of my mind however, how in hell did they build them in 1874 without the CNC machinery and investment casting technology that modern manufacturers have at their disposal. Any not only Sharps but RB's, Win 1885's, Martini's etc.

In many photo's and illustrations that I can find, it just knocks me as to how they did it! :confused::confused:

[KCSO]

The first stock cutting pantographs were designed in, I believe the early 1800's for Springfield Armoury and they worked just like they do now. They also had what they have overseas now, a lot of hand workers. I don't rate myself more than a country boy gunsmith, but last week i cut and finished a fore stock for a Steven's 44 in a 1/2 a day. i have hand planes and scrapers made to cut and fit octogon barrel channels and specialty planes and scrapers for the other stock shaping work the same as were used as early as 1720. I'll give yo a good example... I did a lot of Siler lock inlets so I made a set of templates. #1 did the basic outline #2 was the lock with tumbler attached #3 was with the bridal and mainspring ect. By using the templates in order and cuttng to the marked depths i could in 1 hour rough in a Siler lock without ever picking up the actual lock. Same in the factories in the 1800's one worker would cut rough inlets on butt stocks all day long for years and they got good and fat at the work. They had a tool for each job. I had a book by Alvin Linden showing him cutting a stock blank for a 1903 from a hunk of wood to a rough stock with a hatchet! Now he was GOOD!

All that aside there is something about a Sharps that just says business, I have right now a Sharps copy, a Highwall and a Stevens 44 and if I pick up one to fondle and imagine with it is the Sharps every time. Maybe it is that big ungainly side hammer sticking out there that does it?

[longhorn]

Turboman-
I have a Shiloh--a huge firearms investment for me. I shot BPCR for a couple of years before I ordered the Shiloh, shot plenty Pedersolis and C.Sharps and Shilohs belonging to others. No question that the Pedersoli and the C.Sharps will shoot right alongside the Shiloh; you just have to decide what pride of ownership and exemplary workmanship are worth to _you_. All my dealings with the Shiloh folks have been pleasant/helpful/wonderful customer service.

[405]

....after the last free-for-all broke out here a while back about the pressure figures for Italian Sharps. Anyway, have a lot of friends that shoot the Armi Sport and Pedersolis without problem. They also shoot very very well and win matches!

A few months ago I saw one of the older (pre Montana) Shiloh 74s in 45-70 at a gunshow. The asking price was 1500. It was in excellent condition including the bore- the fit and finish was excellent but the wood was plain jane grain and the finish was not high gloss and not buffed. I don't believe it sold. OK none of my business but I did show it to a couple of friends who were kinda interested in getting a Sharps- no they didn't buy it. The kicker is that at the same time I know of a few of the new Armi Sport and Pedersolis were sold for prices ranging from 1200 to about 1700 depending on model. There is just no figurin' such things. "Perdy" and spanking new sometimes works I guess.

As far as customer service at Shiloh... I've only dealt with them indirectly and was treated well. But, I didn't start the conversation by saying, "my bud's got a Pedersoli and his gun cost way less and out shoots all the Shilohs at the club.... why should I pay that much for yer shooter?" Ditto, in dealing with the C Sharps folks- always been treated well and given straight answers to straight questions.

Anyway, a thought popped into my head while reading all the back and forth about Shiloh or C Sharps versus the Italian variety. Is there anything to be said for favoring an American made product over a foreign one even if more expensive?:-?

[BruceB]

My one-and-only Sharps 1874 is an early Shiloh, made in New York and serial-numbered 34xx. My wife gave it to me for Christmas back around 1980 or '81. It was chambered for the .50-2.5", even though the barrel marking was .50-3.25". In those early days, the .50s were made with a "paper-patch" throat, essentially a VERY long leade. It was impossible to touch the rifling origin with any conventional cast bullet I ever tried. Accuracy was iffy at best because of this factor.

Finally, just a few years back, I spoke directly to Kirk Bryan, owner of Shiloh. My rifle dated from almost DECADES before his ownership of the company, but he immediately made me an offer: "Send us your rifle, and we'll re-barrel it in any caliber we chamber, in any weight or length we offer, for HALF PRICE." I did just that, and in very short order had a brand-new barrel installed for about $280. I submit that one could not ask for more!

I am a devoted fan of the Shiloh rifles. Although I've seen some Pedersolis in the recent past which look very decent, I'd still save a bit longer in order to buy a Shiloh. One thing nobody has mentioned is that a Shiloh can be a PURE custom rifle, with a list of options and calibers as long as a maiden's arm. Not so the imported rifles. A C. Sharps rifle can also be a custom job, but there are enough unsavory hints floating around about that outfit to make me steer clear of them,.

[HEAD0001]

I really like mine alot. By far the most "FUN" rifle I have. I shot two does with it this year. I would like to say they were long distance shots-but if I said that I would be lying. Both shots were about 50 yards.

I enjoy everything about the rifle. From casting the bullets, to reloading, to shooting. Wherever I go to shoot it everybody wants to try it. Tom.:castmine:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/HEAD0001/IMG_0311.jpg

[EDK]

I have had excellent service at Shiloh Sharps

I bought a 50 X 2.5 Long Range Express in Oct 2003 and it was delivered in Feb 05---the stock failed their final inspection in Dec 04 and they started over to make it perfect...Extra fancy wood, pewter tip, forearm bedded. That was over $700 worth of options that they "ate" because if it isn't perfect, it doesn't go out the door.

On one of my annual visits to Big Timber to go to the Quigley shoot, I over paid one dollar in cash for a belt buckle and Heather Bryan about broke her neck running out to my car to give the dollar to me.

Same trip, they had a 45/70 twin to LEAH (Lucinda, Ellen and Heather; names sound familiar?) in the sale rack. It needed a pewter forend tip and sights. I volunteered that I would be coming back that way from Boise in two weeks and was told that if it wasn't ready when I came back, I'd get free shipping to my FFL. I screwed up and passed on the gun...and it sold in less than 2 hours afterwards. Finding what you want in the sale rack and no wait was like hitting the lottery...and I threw the ticket away!

The guys on the shiloh forums are pretty biased...sometimes unkind about other makes...but Shiloh service on every occasion has been great.

The only reason I don't have another on order is I bought a bunch of Original Size Vaqueros and they need action work desperately PLUS a shooter at Quigley makes damascus knives and I owe him a chunk of money on the spear point bowie he is making me. It's too cold to sleep with the horse.... and he snores worse than I do!

:cbpour: :redneck:

[montana_charlie]

One thing nobody has mentioned is that a Shiloh can be a PURE custom rifle, with a list of options and calibers as long as a maiden's arm. Not so the imported rifles.
Thanks for relating your 'barrel swap' experience, Bruce. That was an excellent outcome...and mirrors the kind of customer service that usually seems to prevail there.
But, I have to disagree with your 'pure custom' tag.

When I first became interested in having a Sharps, I was unaware that anybody other than Shiloh made them. So I joined that forum, began reading, and have been (daily) for two years, now.

Along with the forum sections reserved for discussing all manner of information, I religiously watch the 'Support' section...where people talk to 'the management' about problems, seek clarification, and ask 'production' questions.
There have been many requests for, or questions about, features that you would fully expect to be available from a custom shop. Any feature that isn't found in the standard list of options will regularly be turned down when the question finally gets answered.

I would call Shiloh an 'a la carte' shop that has a 'smorgasbord' of options available, but which will not deviate beyond those offered. It probably helps them keep their orders segregated to prevent errors in production, but it keeps them from being a true custom shop.

A C. Sharps rifle can also be a custom job, but there are enough unsavory hints floating around about that outfit to make me steer clear of them,.
I have also perceived 'hints of dissatisfaction' about C. Sharps...but what company do you know that has pleased everybody it has dealt with?
I have no experience C. Sharps to relate, but I have often picked up tidbits about Shiloh guns that gave me pause...and every one came from reading discussions on the Shiloh website.
Those that I ran across early on (in my 'Sharps Period') actually made me take an interest in learning who else was building Sharps rifles.

In the end I chose Pedersoli, and part of that decision was based on doubts about the Big Timber guns...when compared to their cost.

They say you get what you pay for. I can accept minor imperfections in an off the shelf rifle, if I elected to pay that off the shelf price. But, if you give 'high dollar', you expect 'no faults'...and (after much reading) I was not convinced I would find that in the 'plain jane' Shiloh I could afford.

The final straw (that made me look elsewhere) was the attitude of 'the annointed' when I decided to pause in my reading, and ask some questions about the doubts I had acquired...YIKES!

CM

[BruceB]

G'day, Charlie.

You make some excellent points:

"But, I have to disagree with your 'pure custom' tag.

I would call Shiloh an 'a la carte' shop that has a 'smorgasbord' of options available, but which will not deviate beyond those offered. It probably helps them keep their orders segregated to prevent errors in production, but it keeps them from being a true custom shop."


From that point of view, you are quite correct. I reckon I've always figured that their "smorgasbod" was sufficiently extensive to allow someone to dream up pretty near anything his heart could desire in an 1874 Sharps' rifle. Certainly, the options would be ample for me. My own rifle was bought off-the-shelf from a gunshop in Edmonton, Alberta. At the time we were visiting from the far North (1980 or so), the shop had at least a dozen new Shilohs on the rack! You won't see THAT today. Apart from the "philosophy" of building the rifle with that type of chamber, it has indeed been flawless over more than 25 years of shooting.


"The final straw (that made me look elsewhere) was the attitude of 'the annointed' when I decided to pause in my reading, and ask some questions about the doubts I had acquired...YIKES!"


HA!!! Ain't that the truth?? You can sure get a reaction! Only thing I'd change in your comment is that these folks aren't so much "anointed", but rather "'experienced", and loyal to the extreme. Perhaps there's a reason for their devotion? I spend some time on the Shiloh forum myself, when the mood is right. There's a heck of a lot more to loading and shooting the BPCR than meets the eye, no?

[Turboman]

Guys thanks for all the replys,My taylor and company says armi sport taylor & company on it,So im guessing its armi sport built so to speak,Was just worried about it holding up as ive heard some from taylor & company didnt ,But mine being armi sport may hold up just fine,I KNOW IT SHOOTS EXCELLANT OUT OT 300 YARDS,:-D mY BUDDY GOT ONE FROM TAYLOR & COMPANY that said something else on the barrel; i dont remeber what and his didnt hold up very well at all,
Mine has almost 800 rounds thru it by my count and she hasnt let me down yet,
Maybe ill just keep her and buy another one to:mrgreen:
Thanks for all the help.

[montana_charlie]

Hey Turboman,
With no experience with Armi Sport (haven't even seen one) all I can do is tell you what I've heard, and that is...

Taylors handles Armi Sport, and the rifles made by Pedretti. Pedretti is also found under the IAB label.

The Pedretti guns were recently upgraded (at least outwardly) but they have never had a reputation for exquisite performance. At best, they have been called generally representative of the original design, and safe to shoot.

On the other hand, Armi Sport is said to produce some very good rifles. Unfortunately, it appears to be a toss up whether you will get one of the good ones, or a mediocre shooter that is only a few degrees better than the Pedrettis.

If yours shoots, you should probably hang onto it. If you want a second gun, and you plan to pick another Armi Sport...well, you have to wonder if your luck will hold.

When Uberti decided to get into the Sharps arena, they acquired guns from elsewhere, instead of building their own. After a short honeymoon with Armi Sport, Uberti switched to buying Pedersoli rifles...and still does.

CM

[montana_charlie]

Only thing I'd change in your comment is that these folks aren't so much "anointed", but rather "'experienced", and loyal to the extreme. Perhaps there's a reason for their devotion?
Howdy Bruce,
Allow me to amplify a bit by way of explanation, then you decide if 'devotion' outweighs 'logic'.

I'll preface this with a reminder that, at this point, I didn't know you could obtain a Sharps rifle from other sources. So, I didn't appear among the Shilohites while prosyletising about other religions.

A guy posts a question about the value of having the forearm 'custom bedded' on the Shiloh he is planning to order. The respondents say it's well worth the extra $50 because it seals the 'inside' of that piece of wood against moisture.

The author states he is unlikely to be out in the rain with such a nice gun.

Perhaps as general information for anybody reading along, somebody posts a link to a thread about 'wet forearms'.
This was a question to 'the management' which asked what to do if water managed to get under the forearm. The reply (from the actual 'manager', in this case) said that...if the forearm has been soaked, don't remove it from the rifle until it's dry. If it is taken off to dry out, it will probably warp so badly it will need replacement.

Well, Bruce, I have restocked a few rifles, some with full contact metal to wood bedding, and some with AcraGlas. I have finished a few stocks for friends, and refinished a couple of old beaters that needed it.
I think I know a little something about properly finished gun wood.

Remember, I had never seen a Sharps rifle...of any brand.
But, I DID know I would never knowingly leave water inside a gun, possibly for days, allowing the metal to begin rusting while I waited for the trapped water to evaporate.
I also would be amazed if the wood on a Weatherby, Remington, or lowly Mossberg was in danger of being ruined...should I be so stupid as to hunt in the rain.

So, I piped up with a question that was something like...
Can this be for real? Can't Shiloh seal the inletting of their wood...without needing an extra fifty bucks, for two dollars worth of glass bedding?

I asked this because I was looking at buying one of these rifles. I intended to choose as few of the 'options' as I could get away with, and really wondered if I was reading this right.

Bruce, you would have thought I just wiped my butt with the Shroud of Turin...in front of the Pope and all of his Cardinals!
The guys who ran the Spanish Inquisition could have taken some 'lessons in browbeating' from the mob that decended on me.

In particular, there was this grouchy old Marine who had five or six little 'hemorrhoid buddies'. He would stay up nights thinking of new names to call me...and post 'em in the morning. Then his little troop of 'tags' would step up and take their whacks so he would come back and rub each one with some Preparation H...telling them what good little brown nosers they were.

Of course I didn't have enough sense to just shut up and let 'em stew in their own juices. But no matter how reasonably I stated my opinion about what constitutes well-finished stock wood, my every word was sacreligious because it implied there might be something less than perfect coming out from the Shrine of Saint Quigley.

I still visit the Shiloh forum daily, and my presence is tolerated with a certain resigned civility. And, I've been around enough to see that there are a number of really good guys in there.
Old Gunny has moved on, so I no longer have to watch out for him, and I am careful to ignore the 'polyps' he left behind.

But that is the most thoroughly indoctrinated 'single subject bunch' I have ever found. And when I did find a Shiloh I wanted (six years old but never fired), and only two hours away from me, that guy turned out to be just as badly eaten up with 'the mystique'.

We had done our dealing and had it down to the point where it looked like both of us would come out happy. I was waiting for his final answer when Shiloh had a price increase...about the same time European prices started to climb.
When my answer came, he had tacked the same amount onto his price.

By then I already knew there were other sources, and I quit looking at Shiloh guns, altogether.

CM

[KCSO]

I will have to say that for me the bottom line is how much preformance i will get in return for how much money. If I can take brand a out and get 2" groups for $1000 and brand B gives me 1 1/2" groups for $4000 I dont figure it is worth it to me when al I am going to do is shoot a buffalo at under 250 yards. Maybe if i were a world class BPCR fellow i Might go for it, but probably not because if I want to upgrade al it takes me is some sweat. I can sure take off a fore arm and bees wax the inside and it won't cost me no $50.

[Jon K]

A quick observation- All those with negative input and complaints are NOT Shiloh owners, but are quick to be critical. Also seems many are quick to slam Shiloh.......WHY.......if you don't own one?
I don't see anyone slamming Meecham and other high grade BPCR guns.
Any Shiloh owners with a complaint should resolve the complaint with Shiloh, and I think that it would get resolved as Bruce got his rebarreled at what I would call reasonable. Can't beat that price. FYI I just had a Shiloh rebarreled and I don't know how long ago Bruce got his done, but price to rebarrel has not changed $560(heavy half round) In today's inflation and compared to what some BR and varmiters pay that's cheap.

I have to agree with BAW, it's what all you put into it. They all shoot, but like Ford and Chevy.............it's your choice.

So bottom line here's my $.02 "Don't Slam another guy's choice"

Jon

[HEAD0001]

A quick observation- All those with negative input and complaints are NOT Shiloh owners, but are quick to be critical. Also seems many are quick to slam Shiloh.......WHY.......if you don't own one?
I don't see anyone slamming Meecham and other high grade BPCR guns.
Any Shiloh owners with a complaint should resolve the complaint with Shiloh, and I think that it would get resolved as Bruce got his rebarreled at what I would call reasonable. Can't beat that price. FYI I just had a Shiloh rebarreled and I don't know how long ago Bruce got his done, but price to rebarrel has not changed $560(heavy half round) In today's inflation and compared to what some BR and varmiters pay that's cheap.

I have to agree with BAW, it's what all you put into it. They all shoot, but like Ford and Chevy.............it's your choice.

So bottom line here's my $.02 "Don't Slam another guy's choice"

Jon


I would never knock Shiloh. Their rifles are very nice. I wish I could have afforded one. I could not. I bought the Pedersoli because it was all I could afford. I agree with you, I would rather have the American Made Shiloh.

But please do not call the prices reasonable. The prices are not reasonable. You said $560 for a rebarrel is reasonable. I think that is very high. I am having a custom SS Krieger 28 inch special contour(and special length) barrel put on a varmint rig. And including the machining, and all smithwork the total cost
is $480. And I did not even buy the original rifle from Krieger.

I can not agree that $560 is reasonable. I think $560 is high.

I do not blame Shiloh for charging whatever they can get. It happens every day. I personally do not believe the higher prices are justifiable, but that is just my opinion. Tom.

[Gussy]

FWIW..... I have owned a Ped, C Sharps and 2 Shilohs over the years. Of the 3, the C Sharps with Badger barrel shot the best, but not by much. I still have one of the Shilohs, my hunting rifle. It is the best fit and finish of all of them and was ordered to my specs. Cost difference between the better Italian guns and US made is now very little. I will buy US. If I need service, it is fast and top notch. A used Shiloh or C Sharps is a better buy than any import is new, at the same price. The US gun will hold its value and the import will drop fast when it's used.

My suggestion?? If you can buy a used Shiloh or C Sharps for near the same money as an import, the investment is well worth it. There are many good used guns out there. I bought 2 that were at import (new cost) price. When I was done playing with them, I made a dollar or two.

[MT Gianni]

If you ever get the chance to stop in don't miss it. They are good people. I don't shoot BPC but have picked up some nice walnut from there scrap bins for knife handles for $1. I probably stop a couple ot times a year and see lic. plates from all over. Gianni

[EDK]

+1 Gianni

Stopping by at Shiloh can be enlightening. They were displaying Tom Selleck's gun from the CROSSFIRE TRAIL movie awhile back and had one of the QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER GUNS (IIRC) before that. They also had, sometime in the past, frontier photographer L.A. Huffman's Sharps and Colt SAA.

If you're a black powder shooter, they are the friendliest place that I have been at so far. I always compare going to Shiloh Sharps to "Going back home and visiting the cousins that you like and don't get to see near enough."

:castmine:

[WBH]

I have 2 Pedersoli rifles bought from Dixie Gun Works. One is a 45-90 Sharps replica and the other is a 45-70 Remington RB replica. Both rifles will shoot MOA when I do my part out to 200 yards. I have not had the opportunity to develope a load for longer ranges yet. Time will tell

I will say though, the attention paid to the ammo we load and how it is specific to our individual rifle is paramount to accuracy. The "best" rifle with mediocre ammo will fail to shoot well.

I also have a few original Rem RB's re-done by John King that shoot equally as well.

All in all, I am very pleased with the Perdersoli's. I do wish they would narrow their wrist on the RB's though. It is a tree trunk.

[Don McDowell]

Turbo your taylors sharps will shoot fine to 1000 yds and beyond. Mine does anyway.
If you're seriously thinking about "upgrading" then I'ld recommend you take a long hard look at a CSharps. For only a couple hundred more than a Pedersoli , you can have one of the best. They do have some made up and ready and even if they don't somewhere around 60 days will put the new honey in your hands. I recently took delivery of a brand new 75 model from CSA and it was just a tad over 30 days from the day I called the order till the day I picked it up at my local slobber shop
Used to be when you could get two or 3 of the Italian guns for the cost of a CSA or Shiloh, the Italians were a good buy. Now days with not much if any price difference it makes more sense to invest in one of the Montana made guns that will keep their value for years to come, rather than drop about half its value by the time you shoot the first box of ammo thru it , as in the case of the Italians.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Donny,

be very careful the Pedder chella fan club will hunt you down.[smilie=1:


KW

[Don McDowell]

:-D Kenny guess its just a chance I'll have to take.:drinks:
Wishing for warmer weather. lots of shootin to get done before I head to lance creek to get a butt whoopin on the firin line.:mrgreen:

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Dont worry to much Donny I have your back! :drinks:


Look forward to seeing you at the Creedmoor and Mile match in May.

The Lunger
Kenny Wasserburger:castmine:

[Don McDowell]

Ubecha KW we'll be there.Shorty is talking about trying the Creedmore part, and I got ol Doc the guverment mold for his trapdoor and he's got a regulation front sight hood for it. We're gettin ready.:Fire:
Hope to be fresh off of practicing at Alliance when I get to your place this time.:drinks:

[3855]

I have just read this thread with some amusement.... There are those here who badmouth Shiloh mostly because they don't own one.

For those who speak negatively on their dealings with Shiloh, take a look in the mirror for the potential problem. You are in the extreme minority.

If you can possbly afford it, forget the Italian reproductions. Yes, they shoot O.K. but you will never be satisified knowing the Shilohs are a much better finished gun that will increase in value while the Italians lose money once you walk out the door of the gun shop. If you don't believe that, go on Gunbroker or some similiar site and see how many of them are for sale and what they are going for.

In the last ten years or so, a number of us started a BPCR club and built a range. At that time, due to the wait period on getting a Shiloh, a number of folks bought Italian repros. We had 8 or 10 of them around at one time. Today almost those guns are gone. Most have upgraded to Shilohs along with a few Ballards, C.Sharps, Meachems etc.

Buy right the first time. You will ulitmately save money and be happier.

[JSnover]

In the last ten years or so, a number of us started a BPCR club and built a range. At that time, due to the wait period on getting a Shiloh, a number of folks bought Italian repros. We had 8 or 10 of them around at one time. Today almost those guns are gone. Most have upgraded to Shilohs along with a few Ballards, C.Sharps, Meachems etc.

There are two important points here that seem to get ignored every time.
First; Simple economics. If people can't get what they want from one source they'll find another, especially if the price is lower. "Buy American" is great but most people shop with their wallets, not their patriotism. Ford, Chrysler and GM learned that lesson the hard way.
Second; A lower-priced import is a good way for new shooter with limited cash to get into the game. I love American products and I dream of having an Axtell rifle someday but the $5,000 sticker causes me to look elsewhere. Nothing against Shiloh or C. Sharps, I just like the finish and options from the Riflesmith. With a budget rifle you can at least try the sport for a season or two and decide whether or not it's your thing. If it's not, don't sweat it. You haven't blown six months worth of mortgage payments on a wall-hanger. On the other hand, if you find out you like it, you've a year or two to decide what configuration your "real" Sharps will be.

[floodgate]

JSnover:

"I dream of having an Axtell rifle someday".

And even there.... A friend saved up and ordered one of the special Axtell Model 1877 replicas (quite a bit more than $5K!), and even it had to go back to them to be fixed. No, I'm NOT knocking Axtell or anyone else. It DOES happen, even with the best of them. AND, of course, they promptly made good and he really loves it!

floodgate