Anyone else notice this

[country gent]

Today I shot a shillouette match ( was a shorter course) And noticed the same thing as the last match and think I am seeing a trend here. I am currently shooting a CPA 40-65 with 16 twist douglas barrel 30" long. Rifle has a MVA malcomn scope on 17" mount spacing. I am shooting a "Nasa" style bullet 400 grns that drops from my 20-1 at 405 grns. The mold is an old west mold by Bernie Rowels. Load is Starline cases primer pocket uniformed and deburred. a foil disc under a rem large rifle primer. 57 grns 3f goex poured low thru a small hole d RCBS funnel. Napa rubber fiber wad 1/16" thk. compressed .465 from case mouth. Above bullet lubed with SPG. ( this bullet has one wide groove and carries alot of lube). I size around the bullet with a Meacham bushing die of .428 dia and bullet is just a snug fit in the case, it can be turned by med hand pressure. I get vo lead rings and only minimal lead fouling fouling is soft and stays fairly light. I give 2 heavy breaths thru a blow tube between shots. WHat Im experiencing is that this combination seems to shot better as distance increases. Today we started at 400 yds on the rams and My zero was good First shot was a solid center hi, Hit 9 rams number 8 being my only miss and was on call. We next shot the turkeys from 300 yds again my zero was good, First shot nicely centered and on call Hit 7 turkeys solid shots 4,5, and 9 were the misses but again on call. The pigs were shot at 300 yds again zero solid after the turkeys and first shot solid hit 9 hits total shot 4 was the only miss, Chickens at 200 yds was rough only 4 hits from the sticks. Shots 1,4,5, and 9 were the hits there and 100 yd chickens off hand was humbling only 1 hit. I clean between stages a light bruching wioth ballistol water and 3 patches 3rd patch is just a very light offcolor grey. Im suspecting this load/bullet is shooting much better at long range than at closer ranges. It is a long bullet ( 1.400 measured with mitouo calipers.) alot of nose and .490 long bearing surface. It is a bore rider and fit my bore lightly snug.
I have the lyman 400 grn snover(?) mold here also and wonder if I need to be using that for 100 and 200 yds. The offhand was mostly me but the 200 yd chickens off of the sticks are kind of hard to explain away. Any and all input thoughts ideas experience is welcomed.

[EDG]

Did the earlier match start at 400 yards?

[country gent]

The previous match started at 100 and worked back but what I seen there and documented in my notes was the same thing grouping seemed better at longer ranges. I dont think this nasa bullet is going fully to "sleep" inside 200 yds. Its just been my observation with this longish bullet. ( I also saw this with long vlds shooting high power and long range). Im just curious if others have noticed anything similar to it

[petroid]

Are you adjusting the sight in between stages? Surely you are as I can't imagine not having to or at least adjusting point of aim. Have you shot groups at the different ranges? I've never heard of a load being more accurate at 400 yards than at 200.

[country gent]

Yes I adjust sights to each ranges setting then fine tune for conditions with my spotter. Sunday was a really great day in that I put the 400 yd zero of 26 point on the scope and first shot was a center hit next three touched the splatter on the swinger. 300 yds I put the lowered the scope down past and came up to 300 yd zero of 19 points again a nice centered hit and next 2 toucjed the platter. 200 yds i dropped scope down past zero and came up to it 12 points for a solid hit. All rounds were close around but only connected 5 times. At 100 it was offhand and couldnt say one way or another there. I always make adjustments on the scope going up if a minute down is needed I go down 5 mins and come up 4 so play is always in the same direction. I also clean between stages. SUnday was a great day and Im happy with the score and results, just curious in what I'm seeing as a pattern forming. My spotters rifle is showing a need to hold slightly higher after round number 5-6 in the string.

[petroid]

I don't know how a load can be more accurate at longer range than shorter. Any chance the scope is not holding zero? I spent a whole day and shot a lot of rounds trying to zero a scope that wouldn't hold a zero. Maybe some of your shots are knocking it slightly out of alignment and then back to zero. Intermittent problems are the most difficult ones to diagnose.

[country gent]

With certain bullets loads twists combinations it does happen. VLD bullets in the required fast twist barrels will show this pretty quick. Why Im thinking with this long nosed bullet it may be occuring. My 8 twist 243 with 115 grn berger vlds would show this. Shorter bullets in it werent an issue. 9 rams from 400 yds called number 8 as a miss over the top before scorer spotter called it. 9 pigs at 300 yds again miss was called and on call. 7 turkeys from 300 no sight change and misses were on call. at 200 from the cross sticks I hit 4 chickens the 4 hits werent sear as good a group jusdging splatters on the swinging target. The fiorst 3 stages splatters were pretty much touching or ontop of each other. I dont think it is a scope issue as each range correction was right and shots didnt "float around" during the strings. I did check the mounts and screws are tight external adjustments on the scope so not much to go wrong there. I have dealt with bad sights and scopes over the years and I need to walk a box with this one yet.

[freebullet]

A couple muzzle loaders I had years ago did some weird stuff like that. The one wouldn't group inside 100 yards. At 150-200 it was great. Tried a couple different bullet designs/ sabots and found a combo that performed better overall, but not as well in the 150-200 range. Some combos are stellar at specific ranges.

Did a ladder test with a 270win. Two different shooters taking turns firing 15 different loads. It left one massive hole in the target, instead of independent ladder groups. Never could replicate or figure out why that happened.

[John Boy]

Im suspecting this load/bullet is shooting much better at long range than at closer rangesWould agree - the NASA is not 'going to sleep' at the shorter distance.
Buy the Saeco 370 & 640 double cavity mold - use the 370 for the Chickens
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/175064/saeco-2-cavity-magnum-bullet-mold-640-40-caliber-408-410-diameter-370-grain-semi-point

[country gent]

Sunday Im going to try the lyman 400 grn snover/postell over 52 grns 2f at 200 and 100 yds. I have that mold and some cast up Ill shoot both bullets side by side and see. For 300+ I really like the NASA bullet its really performing there. I may give the Lyman a try across the coarse and see what it does. Side by side same day should tell alot. Im working on the brass from last sunday now will anneal it tomorrow clean and prime. Have a measure tube for the B&M measure set for 52 grns ready to go.

[MikeT]

It is possible that the problem at 200 yards is the bullet being unstable due to the transonic transition. Going from above to below the speed of sound.
This issue can be a problem under certain conditions and then again under other climatic conditions, not show up.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[petroid]

It is possible that the problem at 200 yards is the bullet being unstable due to the transonic transition. Going from above to below the speed of sound.
This issue can be a problem under certain conditions and then again under other climatic conditions, not show up.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

If that is the cae, MikeT, would the problem not also exist at longer ranges? Assuming of course, that the load and boolit are the same.

[Jeff Houck]

With certain bullets loads twists combinations it does happen. VLD bullets in the required fast twist barrels will show this pretty quick. Why Im thinking with this long nosed bullet it may be occuring. My 8 twist 243 with 115 grn berger vlds would show this. Shorter bullets in it werent an issue. 9 rams from 400 yds called number 8 as a miss over the top before scorer spotter called it. 9 pigs at 300 yds again miss was called and on call. 7 turkeys from 300 no sight change and misses were on call. at 200 from the cross sticks I hit 4 chickens the 4 hits werent sear as good a group jusdging splatters on the swinging target. The fiorst 3 stages splatters were pretty much touching or ontop of each other. I dont think it is a scope issue as each range correction was right and shots didnt "float around" during the strings. I did check the mounts and screws are tight external adjustments on the scope so not much to go wrong there. I have dealt with bad sights and scopes over the years and I need to walk a box with this one yet.

Yes, it does take a long time for a long heavy for the caliber bullet to settle down. To check this out shoot paper targets at 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 yards. calculate your group in MOA. Also check the bullet print in the paper and note the elliptical smudge marks around the bullet hole. You'll see it diminish as the range increases. If you use white butcher paper you'll get the clearest bullet print.

Then please report back to us what your results were and what range it finally settled down at.

Jeff Houck

[country gent]

Jeff thats part of my problem here in Northwest Ohio, there arnt many "full" distance ranges. The one at Auglaize is behind a museum village and not an open range. The range I belong to is 50 yds 100 yds and 200 yds as far as it goes. The other is 500 but Im not a member there. Washenaw Sportsman clubs 600 yd range is closed past 200 except for scheduled events. Wish I could just drive onto Camp Perry and use the ranges there LOL.Viale is a full 1000 yds with mounds 200 300 400-500 600 800 900 and 1000.
Im going to test a diffrent bullet for 100 and 200 possibly 300 this sunday that is a shorter nose

[Lead pot]

I see this at times also. I don't go along with the idea of accuracy changing do to a bullet not going to sleep at a certain range causing a accuracy problem and come back into a group 1 or 200 yards later. There is no guidance gyro in that bullet to pull it back after wandering out.

I been organizing my computer putting the final match scores in a folder and looking at the sheets I see a definite patter that I shoot better (more hits on the iron gongs) past 700 yards than I get on the closer critters. I seem to clean the 1000 yard irons more than the 700 yd.
Maybe I bear down a lot harder on the long targets than the closer once. Don't know.

[country gent]

I realize that it could also be in my mind after 25 years of High power service rifle competition ( National level) I learned early on shooting is 90% in the mind. But Im going to test some diffrent bullets juat because I have them and the mold on hand. I do agree with you though lead pot as to psyhcological affect.

[EDG]

This is a well known phenomena. Once the bullet settles down the dispersion slows.

I have a .25-06 that has always done this. It is not imagination and it is not a guidance system on the bullet.
Once the bullet stabilizes the dispersion is much reduced.

[Doc Highwall]

What I think is happening is that your level of concentration is greater at the longer ranges because you know that it is harder to hit the more distant target, and that you do not have the same level of concentration at the closer distances because in your mind it is an easy shot.

I found out years ago that is exactly what I was doing thinking that the close up shots were so easy that I failed myself by not using my full concentration on the close distance shots. I now use my full concentration on all shots.

[martinibelgian]

Lead pot is spot-on - there just is no way accuracy can go to h*ll at a certain distance and then return further out. Once a bullet is goingthe wrong way, it won't track back on the right course. It cannot get better, but it certainly can get worse though..

[country gent]

Sunday I shot some test loads with the lyman snoover bullet 400 grn mine wieght 410 from 20-1 alloy. 100yds was very good . I fired 3 rounds of the nasa load to verify zero would be close and for fouling shots. put 9 of the 10 shots in top 3rd of the chicken target I was using. I leaked on slightly high but was right on my call. I then went to 200 yds same load as before. Cleaned varrel and put 200 yd zero on the rifle. Readjusted bench sticks and position a little. Again chicken was a big target with this load.
Load was 52 grns of 2f goex compressed (.700) to allow bullet to just seat to correct depth. Lyman 400grn snover bullet lubed with spg. Rem 91/2 large rifle primer. I did get a little leading from the bore cleaning not alot or any thing excessive.
I also fire formed 50 cases over 46 grns 2f goex after the load testing. It was kind of an eye opener in a way.rounds were accurate and only 1 min or so off zero of heavier test loads. Still got the light leading also. AT 200 uds hit the chicken 15 times out of 20 shots. At 100 did very well also.
Looking at this and what can be seen from the information gained, I may be pushing the nasa bullet a little to fast with the 57 grn load. Im going to try and drop it down to 52-53 grns and see what happens.