Need some Help with my S&W Model 14

[Jeff82]

I've had some custom work done on my S&W Model-14. I had a custom trigger put in, had the internals polished and lighter springs put in for single action and double action target shooting. It's super accurate, but the hammer strike is too light. It misfires about 5% of the time during single action shooting and about 30% of the time during double action shooting. I'll be talking about the problem with the gunsmith who did the work, but am wondering if the tension on the existing hammer spring can be easily adjusted, if it needs to be replaced, or if the problem resides elsewhere.

Can anyone give me some advice on improving the reliability of the action. The misfired rounds always fire, when loaded into my Model-36.

Thanks,

--Jeff

[HeavyMetal]

Switch primer brands!

Suspect you are using CCI or Remington's go to Federal Std small pistol.

Most custom gun makers specifiy Federal primers because they have a "soft" cup and ignite easier than anything else.

I've been thier and done that is how I know, LOL!

[Jeff82]

Yep, I'm using Remington's. I hope it's as simple as that.

--Jeff

[Old Caster]

If you go to Federal and it still doesn't work, take the grips off and you will see where a screw pushes on the leaf spring. Back the screw off until you can slip a fired large pistol primer that has the anvil removed in between with the flat part toward the leaf spring and the inside of the cup on the screw so it can't fall off. There is all kinds of talk that if you seat your primers correctly you won't have this problem even from CCI but they are harder than Federal no matter what they want to claim. I have had some lots of Winchester that worked in my tuned revolvers but others don't. Federal works better than any other brand every time all the time.

[9.3X62AL]

This is the second thread in as many days on this same subject. I stayed low and kept dark within the first thread, but feel the need to speak up in the context of revolver reliability.

DO NOT change or modify action springs or spring rates in S&W revolvers, ESPECIALLY if there is ANY chance the revolver will be used in defensive venues. Smoothing or polishing contact and engagement surfaces is fine, if professionally done--but spring swaps should be confined to "sport-only" handguns. My S&Ws go in harm's way--with the possibility of being pressed into service versus bad critters or bad people. Their actions are all BOX STOCK, and they all ignite CCI primers 100%.

[BruceB]

AMEN to Al's comments.

The S&W springs are "the way they are" for good reason. Messing with them is simply asking for troubles we REALLY don't need.... exactly as the OP is finding out.

It's all well and good to desire a lighter double-action, or want to lighten the pressure needed to fire in single action.... but IF we do it, there is serious risk of compromising the reliability of the gun.... and they are VERY reliable revolvers if we LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Get a GOOD 'smith to polish and smooth the innards, perhaps.....but make sure he doesn't put in lighter springs! A pound or two in trigger pressure just isn't worth the gamble in a carry or hunting gun.

My present-day S&W revolvers run at least some chance of being called-upon for defensive work, barring a .22 that's new to me, and all of them still have their original factory-weight springs.... and all will fire reliably with any primer I've tried (mostly CCI, but others have been used).

[rintinglen]

Back in the day we used to use a weight--IIRC 2 3/4 lbs-- to test hammer springs. The weight was suspended on an "L" shaped piece of wire that was placed over the hammer of the un-cocked, empty revolver and the gun slowly raised by the barrel. If the hammer did not support the weight without moving, the spring was too light. A lighter rebound spring is fine, down to maybe 12 pounds. It may slow your rate of fire, but the main spring has to meet a certain minimum level to ensure the gun goes bang. The afore mentioned spent primer fix usually works perfectly for lightened mainsprings.

[Petrol & Powder]

Normally I work on my own guns but I picked up a cheap Model 64 that was out of time and had several other minor issues. I wanted some modifications done and it was cheaper to farm out the work. I elected to send it to a gunsmith that had a very good reputation. His work was excellent but when the gun was returned it would misfire about 25% of the time. The original mainspring was still in the gun but he had re-arched it just a little too much. Overall, I was satisfied with the work and I was able to correct the spring issue by putting just a little arch back in the spring. it's 100 % reliable now.
I mention this because even if the springs are not swapped out, problems can still exist. I'm totally with Al on the need for reliability over light pull weights. A smooth but somewhat heavy trigger pull that is reliable is far more desirable than a light trigger pull that is anything less than 100%.
For the OP, a factory mainspring can be installed, a Wolff standard weight spring (not reduced weight) spring can be installed or if you know a competent S&W gunsmith, maybe the spring can be re-arched. I'm sure the spent primer cup on the strain screw may be a valid fix but I've NEVER been a fan of playing with the strain screw in any way. That fix probably came about to address the bad practice of shorting the strain screw.

[Old Caster]

You can't just lighten springs as much as you "think" you can and expect to get away with it. Each gun is an entity to itself and when I lighten the springs on a gun I have a set way of doing it however I leave the mainspring just a tad loose to find out what I can get away with. If I go too light by a tad, I just tighten the screw. Guns with target hammers can be made lighter than those without and ones with a bobbed hammer have to be a bit stronger. N frames can be lighter also. Some guns can be made way lighter and still be reliable and others can't. It is best to shoot it while tuning to find out where you stand but for a smith to do that can be difficult because he doesn't know how you will load your ammo and that would be time consuming also which means expensive.

I love to shoot competitively against people that won't lighten their revolvers.

[Petrol & Powder]

........ Some guns can be made way lighter and still be reliable and others can't. It is best to shoot it while tuning to find out where you stand but for a smith to do that can be difficult because he doesn't know how you will load your ammo and that would be time consuming also which means expensive.

I love to shoot competitively against people that won't lighten their revolvers.

I agree. To be clear, guns relied upon for self defense need to be 100% reliable. I do action work, including reduced spring weights, on guns that are used for target practice and plinking but even those are set up to be 100% reliable.
Al's caution against altering spring weights on guns that may be pressed into self defense roles is both valid and important.
My K-38 has an excellent trigger. It's probably one of last guns I would carry for self defense but even so, it is still completely reliable.

[Jeff82]

It turns out that when I removed the Tyler T-extension, the problem became apparent. The strain screw was loose.

[Petrol & Powder]

There you have it! Excellent. Tighten that puppy up and press on.

[9.3X62AL]

It turns out that when I removed the Tyler T-extension, the problem became apparent. The strain screw was loose.

I see a happy outcome on the near horizon.

[Old Caster]

Before we go any further I don't want people who read these few posts to get the idea that backing off the strain screw is in any way proper to tune a revolver. There is a lot more involved including making the trigger return spring balanced with how much weaker the main leaf spring is. I use a model 10 revolver shooting steel plates and use to use it in IDPA and it is way lighter than stock but I have never had a misfire. I doubt that I would carry it but would trust it completely to do that.

[9.3X62AL]

Well-mentioned, Old Caster. Those mainspring strain screws are known to back out a bit with extensive double-action work being applied, so I make a point of checking for full turn-in every time I clean a roller. Vibration can make things move that should stay snug.

[Old Caster]

Yes, when the screw is backed out , it might apply the right amount of pressure for what you want but the distance it applies the pressure is what matters which is why either the leaf spring has to be reduced in width and thickness or a different spring bought. I like to work with the original spring because I can make it what I want for an individual gun which can take an inordinate amount of time and is why most Smiths that work for pay buy the springs.