MORE Homemade BP Chrono Data

[Eagle66]

This is a follow up to my “Homemade BP Chrono Data” thread.

For the purpose of these tests, I refer to fffg (3fg) as powder that is either factory labeled as such or that has passed through a 40 mesh screen and did not pass a 70 mesh screen, or -40+70. ffffg (4fg) passes a 70 screen, but not a 100, or -70+100.

In that thread, among other things, I found that when I screened Goex 3fg out of the can, it turned out to be an 81/19 mix of 3fg & 4fg (-40+70 & -70+100). So of course I had to test for these variables. I also had to test my powder somewhat the same.

I made two Goex samples; one straight out of the can, and one that I screened -40+70. I made 2 samples of my black willow powder; one as I make it, screened -40+70(like the screened Goex), and one that I made up by blending my 3fg and 4fg in an 81/19 ratio (like the Goex out of the can). I prepared 3 charges of each by weighing out 70.0 gr on my beam-type powder scale. I used a powder dribbler to make sure the charges were identical. Each charge went into a separate labeled vial. To make sure all the powder went into the barrel, I used a powder funnel stuck into the muzzle.

The rifle was a Cabelas Traditional Flintlock Hawken Rifle in .54 cal. Pan prime was my own 4fg, same batch. The balls were .530, 221gr (± 1 gr) all from the same casting run, patched with .010 ticking, greased with Crisco. (Same ticking as before)

The test was shot over a ProChrom CEI-3800 digital chrono. There was a light breeze toward the firing line that day (5-23-14). And now, the important part:

My powder screened -40+70 (my usual).
1036 fps
1054 fps
1028fps

My powder; 81/19 blend of 3fg & 4fg
1036 fps
1020 fps
1018fps

Goex screened -40+70
1303 fps
1304 fps
1260fps

Goex out of the can
1268 fps
1277 fps
1265 fps

What does it all mean? Well, my conclusion from this small test is that the presence of fines probably doesn’t have much to do with how powerful a powder is. :veryconfu

The second is that my powder is 15-20% slower than Goex. :groner: But, I can work some more on that.

The third is that testing is as good an excuse as any for spending time at the range feeding boolits to the berm. :Fire:

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I find this very interesting. Your powder shows good consitency. To me that would mean alot.
I have not tested Goex recently out of a muzzle loader but I do not understand the extreme velocity differences with the "screened" goex powder you recorded. Or possibly that one low reading was one of those gremlins that pop up.
Last crono I ran with Goex was in the 50-95 with 3F. Extreme spread was 6 fps. My powder was made about 14 years ago by todays date if memory serves.
But you have a good starting point to to work with your powder. You could try more rod pressure with your powder. I do not know how much pressure you are exerting. I have an old postal scale I use under the butt when fine tuning a load . Sometimes just a bit more rod pressure changes things to the better. Not always true but consitent pressure is another factor that always pays.
Mike in Peru

[missionary5155]

Hello again
While in the shower the thought also popped up about your patch tightness.. again a tighter patch will inprove initial combustion. But if you are at the "tight" ramming pressure your already there.
Mike in Peru till June

[Texantothecore]

If I remember correctly Cal50 is compressing to to 1550 rather than 1250 or so and is getting fps readings that are right with Swiss 3fg. So you might try that.

I am surprised at the consistency of your homemade powder. The extreme spread is much smaller than I would have expected.

Looks like some good gunpowder there Pilgrim.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

If your powder provides a 15% slower velocity, slower than you want, simply increase the charge as if working up a load. GOEX has been known for years as a powder not really consistent. Those of us that shot a lot of it over time gave long known that, so to counter the problem we buy larger amounts of the same lot and test again if a different lot has to be used in the future.

BvT

[Tatume]

You're doing good work here, and I'm enjoying your reports. Your conclusion that screening doesn't make a difference in velocities might change if your sample size was greater, because the difference could actually be statistically significant. That one screened GOEX datum (1260) dominates the test. If you take it out and replace it with the average of the other two (1302), all of a sudden the 33 fps difference becomes statistically significant.

No matter, it still isn't important, is it? It would be interesting if you could re-run that test with a larger sample size. I understand the logistics don't favor doing it though.

Keep up the good work.

Take care, Tom

[Geraldo]

Thanks for posting chrono data. It's interesting to see how it compares to Goex, but if you're target shooting velocity doesn't matter, just the group. If you're hunting, you can increase the charge.

[dtknowles]

I don't make my own powder and I only shoot a little BP but this kind of post is what make this forum so awesome.

Tim

[Fly]

Eagle my home made shoots 100 fps faster then Goex.Infact it will match Swiss.
I,m measure by weight not volume.Boz or Bob home made powder test about the same.
Knowing Bob he will most likely read this & chime in.That way you will know I,m
not blowing smoke. (so to speak) Ha, Ha.
Fly

[HARRYMPOPE]

How much cheaper is it to make it yourself?

[Rojelio]

How much cheaper is it to make it yourself?

It cost me about $3.00 a pound to make. I make my own black willow charcoal.

Shooting over a chronograph I'm averaging over 1100 fps out of my Pietta Remington .36 cal with a 6 1/2" barrel.
I'm averaging just under 900fps in a euroarms 44 colt with a 4 1/2" barrel.

So, I'd say that's good enough.

[Fly]

Yea that's about right depending to load.We tested some on my crono at the
first roundy.I think I was getting 930-945 from my .44 Pietta
Remmy.I can't remember how much weight of powder I used, but nothing over
30 grains.This stuff can very some from day to day.But yours sounds about right.

Fly

[Rojelio]

By weight in the 44 it was 25 grains. By volume it was 35 grains. That's all that would fit in the cylinder. I was just trying to see what I could get out of it. It is more accurate with a little lighter load.

I didn't weigh the load in the 36, but, it was probably in the neighborhood of 22 or 23 gr. by weight. It held a little less powder that the 44.

[Fly]

Yea you got good powder at those speeds with 25 grains.You need to consider corning
(pressing) it.
Fly

[Rojelio]

Yea you got good powder at those speeds with 25 grains.You need to consider corning
(pressing) it.
Fly

I have corned it before but I end up getting too many fines. It was like 25% or more fines. It was a lot denser, though. Just pressing by hand in a tight ball and screening it, I get just about 2% fines. And it just ends up being a lot less work for me.

[Fly]

Yea but I just throw the fines back into the ball mill & grind it with the next batch.
I waste nothing.But corning is a little more work, for sure.

Fly

[mikeym1a]

You seem to have a very consistent powder. It is somewhat slower than the Goex, so how would you make it a bit faster? Which of the ingredients would you change? Just an academic question, not belittling your efforts.. mikey

[Rattus58]

You seem to have a very consistent powder. It is somewhat slower than the Goex, so how would you make it a bit faster? Which of the ingredients would you change? Just an academic question, not belittling your efforts.. mikeythere is only one ingredient that you can change isn't there... the charcoal... assuming the ratio's are fixed? Method might be process changed.... that could help... but I'm of the impression that it is the charcoal that matters, isn't it/

[Fly]

You must have good charcoal.Kno-3 is Kno-3 & the same with sulfur.The right wood & the cook
makes it what it is, if it is ballmilled fine enough.Not rocket science but more like cooking.

Fly

[Boz330]

You make your powder almost exactly like I do and using the same type CC. I'm at a loss why the big difference in velocity. I have never compared against Goex but have against Swiss and Kik and my powder was comparable within a few FPS when weighed. Volume wise there was a huge difference, especially in the screened powder.
I use my powder mostly in a 40-65 BPCR so case capacity is a limiting factor. There was a big difference (200fps) between screened and pressed powder. There was only 75fps less velocity from my corned powder and Swiss. Swiss powder gives me 1275fps for 65gr in that case. My homemade gives me 1200+fps for 52gr, which is a case full.
This is not scientific but I shoot 95gr of Kik in my Gibbs rifle for long range. A couple years ago I tried my HM in the Gibbs at 95gr weight on the mini creedmore target at 500yd. The shots were way over the target for Kik sight settings and the felt recoil was painful. I can shoot Kik all day without the use of a recoil pad. The vertical spread for the HM was bad enough that it wasn't worth continuing the trial, besides it hurt like hell. At 100yds the extreme spread doesn't hurt anything that much.

Bob

[Eagle66]

I've been considering one possible factor that no one has brought up. For the media in my ball mill, I use .500 ball cast from COWW. When I milled my KNO3, it came out a tiny bit gray. My milled powder is a very dark gray, not black. I have been wondering if the small amount of lead that seems to be eroding from the media would be enough to affect the burn characteristics of my powder. I'm not a chemical engineer, but maybe someone could hazard a guess?

Oh, for those who would worry about the lead in my BP smoke, I am aware of it, but don't believe it's enough to harm anyone. Besides, the snack food & beverage I consume in front of the TV with my feet up will get me long before the BP smoke.

[Fly]

I have been using cast lead balls for years.Most do.But wait?you just said something, as to when
you mill your KNO-3.Do you not mill everything together?

Fly

[Eagle66]

I do when doing the final milling, but before that, I also mill my KNO-3 & charcoal separately. The KNO-3 I get from Duda Diesel comes prilled, that is, hard white pellets. Before, I got it as stump remover, crystals. So, I mill it to airfloat before weighing & mixing with the other ingredients. Likewise with charcoal; I mill the lumps to airfloat before weighing & mixing. My sulfur comes from Duda Diesel as a fine powder already. When I make a batch, I weigh (450g KNO-3, 90g C, 60g S) then mix them and mill for 3 hours. I kind of figured that the milling would be more effective if all the ingredients were the same "texture" when the process started.

BTW, I got some Mono/Lino that I'm going to cast into .500 ball media to replace the WW balls. They should be more durable. I'm also gonna melt the used balls for boolits in the back corner of the yard. That melt might be more interesting than usual.

[Fly]

I see, well I have made powder from Duda Diesel also in the past, with no problem.

Fly

[Boz330]

I use 58cal WW balls. I throw all of my ingredients together and mill. I just grind my CC in an old meat grinder and don't worry about the small lumps. The powder is gray when done. The only difference that I can see between your process and mine is the size of the batches. Your batch size is pretty big for just 3 hours of milling. I do 200gram batches then throw them together before corning. I shoot for 4hr mill time.

Bob

[Fly]

Bob may have it the problem.I have a very large ball mill.I can do mine in 2hours.
but when I used a small Harbor Frieght mill, I had to mill at least 4 hours.One
thing I have found also is folks not using enough balls.

I fill the barrel 1/2 full of balls.If you don't mill it as fine as possible, & I mean
like baby powder, it just won't be as fast.
Hope we have helped, Fly

[OverMax]

FWIW: I've been using Haifa brand Kno-3. Its not a prill. Its nitrate crystal. Haifa brand is considered a Technical Grade potassium nitrate made for pyrotechnics use. Prilled KNO3 is not considered a Technical Grade potassium nitrate. And is known to contain binders and other impurities.

[Fly]

FWIW: I've been using Haifa brand Kno-3. Its not a prill. Its nitrate crystal. Haifa brand is considered a Technical Grade potassium nitrate made for pyrotechnics use. Prilled KNO3 is not considered a Technical Grade potassium nitrate. And is known to contain binders and other impurities.

You are right & I have used both.But they both work very well.The prilled is just kind of a pithb to grind up that's all.
Fly

[OverMax]

Fly.
Here I thought what the pyrotechnics use. (Crystal) Offered much better burn performance verses the Feed Store prill product? I'm starting to believe there's a never ending learning curve to this art of making good B/P. gee's

[Fly]

Aw people make it a lot harder than it really is.I always said it's kinda like cooking.
You get better the more you make.Eagle will have his burning his eye lashes off
soon,(wink).
Fly