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brasshog
05-24-2014, 03:33 PM
I recently downgraded (j/k) from my 1911 due to health reasons and deep concealment needs to a new Glock 29 10mm pistol. The Glock has lightened my load by 26oz's, is double stacked (don't want to reload in tight dark confined spaces), concealable, and is the most power for a sub compact. My carry needs at work are quiet different from the norm and penetration is possibly of the most importance in my ammo selection. My current threat assessment predicts that most shots will be close (muzzle) to very close (under 20 feet) in a confined (bedroom/kitchen) to very confined (attic/crawlspace) in which I may be standing to near prone for shooting. Muzzle blast will be immense in most cases due to total darkness in a confined space. I may need to shoot through several 2x4's that are lightered (hardened with age), metal clips on wood, or plastered walls that are as much as three feet apart. This being my first Glock and first 10mm I have found a shortage of information on barrier testing but conclude that Underwood heavy cast boolits may fill the niche that I'm in. Does anyone have any advice or experience that they could share with me on heavy for caliber factory rounds that penetrate barriers and bad guys well in 10mm ? Once I have found a suitable carry load I will then need to match it for practice drills. Below I have listed some situations that either myself or others in my profession have been in within the last year for a general idea. Thank you.

1)-Me- Found a 10'x20'x3' dungeon for children in an attic that was hidden well. The door had locks on it but was unlocked and fortunately contained no bodies (owner died a year prior). It was a full blown kids room with no access or egress except the lockable door. I can only imagine a different bad outcome if the owner had been living and I became trapped in the attic. Police notified. Penetration for attic trusses may be needed

2)-Me-Found people living inside the walls of a home. They even had a bed mattress in a "U" shape for sleeping. Penetration may be needed for plaster. Police notified.

3)-Me-People move into a home overnight. I walked into a room occupied by squatters. Police arrested them.

4)-Other-Eight homeless people living under an old ladies house. They had dug chairs into the dirt and cut the HVAC trunk line for a/c. Police arrested.

5)-Me-Walked into a fella's kitchen with him. I noticed that he locked the door as we entered from outside. Tried his best to get me to drink the kool-aid (literally) while he told me that the text messages were flowing out of the monitor of his computer into his brain and the emails were passing through his body hence his unstable mental condition. I backed up to the door, unlocked it, and made it obvious that I wanted to go outside (not a basement lol). I promptly left Note: never enough power when confronted by a lunatic

6)-Me-Pulled up to a job at dark. Was told by the resident that the guy that parked there before me was shot to death (less than 24hrs). There was a mass stabbing minutes after I left.

7)-Me-Last month I walked in on a break in that resulted in a meth lab being set up. The break in had happened minutes prior to me arriving (per evidence). They ran out the back door. Police notified but I waited for over 1 1/2 hours for deputies that never arrived. I was there for over four hours working that day and still no cops.

8)-Other- Realtor and buyer (both females) were cornered inside a home with a large black male (armed with a knife) demanding money. They gave him some, he became enraged (not enough money), and left.

9) I became trapped on a roof while crack heads (10-15 ppl) gathered around my van and began screaming at me. They wanted to burn the trailer down like the neighbors home that had mysteriously burnt to the ground the day before. Apparently my client owned several homes on that block including theirs. My shotgun was in my van that day and of no use. Police notified. I promptly left after their arrival.

Although I always carry, a firearm was not used or shown in any of these situations. I avoid conflicts if possible. A ccw has saved my butt six times so far in twenty plus years and I've only had to fire it once in self defense (a deputy was taking fire---he happened to be standing next to me lol). Thanks for taking the time to read this.

JSnover
05-24-2014, 07:34 PM
Since you mentioned the likelihood of shooting through obstructions, I think I might just go with FMJ,since expansion of any bullet would be questionable after smashing through a board or two.
For defensive use, I like the heaviest bullets I can get, no matter what type.

Bonz
05-24-2014, 07:38 PM
+1 on FMJ & the heaviest projectile that the gun can handle

35remington
05-24-2014, 08:50 PM
Hard cast will be superior to FMJ in penetration, as the FMJ bullet has a swaged core of considerably softer lead than heat treated wheelweights. FMJ bullets at 10mm speeds expand and deform in hard objects and have been known to deform on bone in humans. Load a 180 to 200 grain bullet to as fast as accuracy permits and call it good. Any differences with an even heavier bullet are really not an improvement.

Too much potential velocity is lost when heavy bullets are used, and this inhibits penetration. A reasonable balance is called for, and too heavy is a drawback.

brasshog
05-24-2014, 09:42 PM
I was thinking of these. http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmAuto220GrainHardCastFlatNoseBoxof50.aspx

Jupiter7
05-25-2014, 02:17 AM
I'm all for power, but my opinion is your over thinking your ammo choice. Personally, for factory loaded ammo, I'd look into any JHP that meets FBI standards through auto windshield glass. Loadings designed for LE duty are abundant and proven in 9mm, .357sig and .40s&w. No reason 10mm won't produce same results or better. Hopefully you're carrying a spare mag, it could be loaded with a different round if options are desired on a case by case basis.

Hornady makes critical duty with a ballistic tip just for this purpose. I believe some of the barnes all copper loading also meet standards as do the federal HST and Winchester ranger. Finding these loadings in 10mm will be the hard part. Underwood is good stuff too.

Love Life
05-25-2014, 02:27 AM
RCBS 10mm-200-SWC loaded of a stout charge of AA#9. Puts the hurt on thick, sappy, knotty pinion pine logs.

upnorthwis
05-25-2014, 08:44 AM
Everything I've read about self defense says to use factory loads only. Reason: The other lawyer will use your "Killer home brew" against you.

44MAG#1
05-25-2014, 08:51 AM
Best thing to do is get out of your line of work since you brought up health reasons for going to a lighter gun. Must be a very detrimental heath problem to worry about a few ounces.
If you can't, for whatever reason that would be good enough to keep you in it, carry a FP FMJ or a good hard cast FP is you can get a good load.

9.3X62AL
05-25-2014, 02:39 PM
Nice group of people you deal with. Sounds like a week of cop work in Desert Hot Springs.

I think highly of the 10mm in its "full up" loadings. Under the circs you describe, my mags would be staggered with 200 grainers, JHP @ 1200 FPS in the spout followed by FMJ/JHP/FMJ/JHP throughout the 3 mags on my person and within the pistol.

Hunter
05-26-2014, 01:43 AM
My 10mm Auto ballistic test. It may help you a bit.

http://rangehot.com/10mm-auto-ballistic-test-updated/

brasshog
05-26-2014, 09:50 PM
Thanks Hunter

Plastikosmd
05-27-2014, 05:58 PM
wow!

I lead a very boring life next to yours!

brasshog
05-28-2014, 07:30 AM
Two jobs today. Wonder how many crazy people will I encounter lol. Trying out my new ccw "holster" today and breaking in the Glock. Thanks for the advice everyone.

osteodoc08
05-28-2014, 06:07 PM
Spare mags, a good knife and flashlight also need to be on the list. Practice with your ammo as the full power 10mm can be a handful out of the 29. Any good heavy weight HP would serve you well under those circumstances. Wood and plaster are easily defeated by the 10mm. Set up some testing material and see for yourself.

Mik
05-28-2014, 06:31 PM
I recently downgraded (j/k) from my 1911 due to health reasons and deep concealment needs to a new Glock 29 10mm pistol. The Glock has lightened my load by 26oz's, is double stacked (don't want to reload in tight dark confined spaces), concealable, and is the most power for a sub compact.

This sounds like the beginning of a post in the "least fun gun you have ever shot" thread.

I agree with the consensus here. Don't lose sleep over this one. I would recommend winchester ranger or speer gold dot.

brasshog
05-28-2014, 08:44 PM
I currently have some 180gr Hornady XTP stuff in her. I keep a two spare G20 mags, a flashlight, and my knife with me at all times. My "holster" is an electrician's pouch with some tools that allows fast access. It allows for a non printing discreet carry. I will be doing some test at some point on various materials before settling down on a standard carry load.

Mik
05-29-2014, 06:22 AM
I currently have some 180gr Hornady XTP stuff in her. I keep a two spare G20 mags, a flashlight, and my knife with me at all times. My "holster" is an electrician's pouch with some tools that allows fast access. It allows for a non printing discreet carry. I will be doing some test at some point on various materials before settling down on a standard carry load.

Sounds like a good load-out brass hog.

Just be sure to test those larger magazines extensively in your gun.They fit, but the gun isn't designed to be used with them.

I don't know about the 10mm glocks, but some .40 caliber sub compact glocks have a tendency to bobble when fed by full size magazines. Apparently the torque applied directly to the extended part of the magazine by the shooter's grip can cause feeding issues.

warboar_21
05-29-2014, 09:16 PM
In my 1911 10mm I have tested Buffalo Bore 180gr Gold Dot load and it has worked really well. I have shot the 175gr Winchester Silver Tip factory load and it is another one that works well. The Double Tap 200gr Hard Cast is one penetrating mutha. I have also loaded 200gr hornady xtps over max charge of Blue Dot for 1250fps and they penetrate and expand well. Pretty much any factory load other than Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Double Tap, and the Winchester Silvertips are a waste of time. The rest are loaded to slightly above 40S&W velocities.

Hunter
06-03-2014, 01:19 AM
A girl I see carries a Gen 3 G29sf and she has tried G20 magazines in hers and they worked fine but I do agree, testing that with you gun and magazines is a good idea.

FergusonTO35
06-10-2014, 04:46 PM
I hope you make a whole lotta money in whatever line of work you have. You're actually in more danger than a cop would be. Think about it: no body armor, no weapons other than a pistol, no back up, no uniform and badge intimidation factor. Also unlike a cop if you shoot somebody the investigating agency and the courts are not going to assume you are a good guy or go easy on you.