454 Cassull brass cut to 45 Colt oal

[Huntsman]

So here I have a gem of a lever gun, Winchester 94 Legacy in 45 Colt.
I'm trying to load some good solid animal thumping 300gr gas checked casts for it but I'm finding the Win brass and some Starline just ain't holding up. The brass seems to be swelling above the rim. Just wondering if I trim some 454 brass down if this will help any.

[osteodoc08]

Can you define what you mean by swelling? Perhaps the chambers are generous?

Trimming 454 brass is unlikely to solve your problem if a chamber issue.

[gandydancer]

Winchester 94 Legacy in 45 Colt. ?? made by chappa arms? who?

[EDG]

Trim down 2 or 3 and then weigh the cases. If there is more brass in the head they will be heavier.
You would want cases at least 3 to 5 grains heavier

[Huntsman]

Winchester 94 Legacy in 45 Colt. ?? made by chappa arms? who?

Nope, American made Winchester model 1894 Legacy.
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/IMG_00000625_zps2255e113.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/IMG_00000625_zps2255e113.jpg.html)

[Kansas Ed]

45 Colt brass generally won't fit into Freedom Arms 454 chambers without resizing with 454 dies first. IE: 454 brass is slightly smaller at the base. So your problem will likely be worse.

Ed

[rbertalotto]

I have a number of 454 rifles and revolvers. 45LC brass fits all of them perfectly. Including my Freddom Arms revolvers. I've never seen a 454 that wouldn't accept 45LC.

I cut down and load the snot out of 454 brass for use in various 45LC rifles. Small primer of 454 allows more brass in the head and thicker brass will load higher pressures. There are lots or articles about this on the internet.

Remember, most Lever Action rifles available in 45LC are also available in 44Mag which allows MUCH higher pressure than the 45LC.

But as always.....be safe out there!

[Tatume]

It sounds like the loads are too hot. Changing brass won't fix that.

[6pt-sika]

Do your rifle a favor and buy a 45-70 if you want a 45 cal thumper !

[gandydancer]

I have a number of 454 rifles and revolvers. 45LC brass fits all of them perfectly. Including my Freddom Arms revolvers. I've never seen a 454 that wouldn't accept 45LC.

I cut down and load the snot out of 454 brass for use in various 45LC rifles. Small primer of 454 allows more brass in the head and thicker brass will load higher pressures. There are lots or articles about this on the internet.

Remember, most Lever Action rifles available in 45LC are also available in 44Mag which allows MUCH higher pressure than the 45LC.

But as always.....be safe out there!

Diddo. what he"rbertalotto " said on the LC brass. I have been shooting 45 colt loads in my 454 Casull "Ka-Sul" sense 1986 because 454 brass was hard to come by at the time. with no trouble. :smile:

[Huntsman]

Well it is safe to trim the 454 brass as it just so happens that I got onto a conversation with a dealer of Rossi lever guns at a gunshow yesterday. He in fact does exactly what I was asking. He's had great success in using trimmed 454 Cass Starline brass in his Mares Leg for hunting loads. He have me some data and specs and I have some brass on the way. He has a Puma 454 lever that he hunts with but says the 45 Colt Mares leg is funner. He shoots 45 Colt from his Puma as well. As for the swelling, I might have had hot 'ish loads. I'm trying to work up some hunting loads with Hogdon Longshot powder and the 300gr GC cast boolits. I made up some more as well as some with 255gr casts. Thanks all for your comments.

[Bullshop Junior]

So here I have a gem of a lever gun, Winchester 94 Legacy in 45 Colt.
I'm trying to load some good solid animal thumping 300gr gas checked casts for it but I'm finding the Win brass and some Starline just ain't holding up. The brass seems to be swelling above the rim. Just wondering if I trim some 454 brass down if this will help any.

I have a fair pile of trimmed back 454 brass. I could maybe send you a few to try.

[Huntsman]

R
I have a fair pile of trimmed back 454 brass. I could maybe send you a few to try.
Bullshop,
As much as that sounds like a fantastic idea they would still have to go through customs at the border. Thanks for the offer though. Cheers

[Bullshop Junior]

We cant mail brass to canada?

[starmac]

Nope....... can't even mail a scope. Our laws not theirs.

[Bullshop Junior]

That's dumb. We used to mail lube and stuff there lol

[DougGuy]

Sounds like the Winnie has generous chamber dimensions. No amount of thicker brass will remedy that situation since the hunting loads would bulge the 454 brass as well, I'd just load for it in Starline brass and live with it.

[Huntsman]

Sounds like the Winnie has generous chamber dimensions. No amount of thicker brass will remedy that situation since the hunting loads would bulge the 454 brass as well, I'd just load for it in Starline brass and live with it.

Is this sorta thing common? I took some fired brass and covered surface with a black marker, chambered it and extract, eject. There was little contact on casing.
So then, I guess I'll scrap the 454 brass idea and lower my charges.
Cheers

[Bullshop Junior]

In 45 colt, over size chambers are fairly common.

[Huntsman]

Alrighty then. I though it was weird that the brass didn't expand or swell like when fired from my Vaquero.

[RobS]

Don't size the entire case just the neck or portion of the brass where the boolit will be seated (case tension on the boolit). Of course if you are shooting these in another firearm they may not chamber. This will keep the brass from being worked so much.

[DougGuy]

Alrighty then. I though it was weird that the brass didn't expand or swell like when fired from my Vaquero.

My Vaquero is pretty tight, it doesn't bulge cases. The .45 caliber convertible I had that was made in the 1980s had .456" throats and it bulged cases horribly.

It all comes down to the chamber reamer they used when they finished the chamber. SAAMI specs for the .45 Colt were taken from drawings of the original 1873 gun and cartridge, afaik. Those were black powder metallic cartridges that fired a hollow base soft lead round nose boolit that used gas pressure from firing to cause the bollit skirt to obturate in the bore, sealing it. It worked pretty well, for back then, and there was plenty of room to prevent black powder buildup from stopping the gun from working.

But... SAAMI has not updated or changed their specs for the caliber, which calls for a chamber diameter of .4862" at the area where the cases bulge, and .480" at the same area for the cartridge diameter. Your chamber may well be in excess of .488" in that area. Hardly worth rebarreling to save brass, but if it causes cases to split and is a safety concern, it may be worth thinking about. Have you contacted Winchester?

[CastingFool]

Do a chamber cast, and measure it. That should confirm what you need to know. Anyone knows if you can do a pound cast on a lever gun?

[Tackleberry41]

I shoot cut down 454 in my 45 colt with no problems. Couldn't get 45 colt brass without just buying loaded ammo. But 454 was pretty easy to get, lots of work trimming a bunch down. Feel safe loading them pretty hot. I know the chamber isnt going to be an issue, as chambers had to be cut in new barrels.