Ballisticast or star???

[pastor]

Need some informed opinions, i am very close to buying a lubesizer, I have looked and read what i could find on all the brands, RCBS, Lyman, Star and Ballisticast. I realize that for the amount of shooting I do the Star or Ballisticast is probably overkill but I tend to try my best to buy tools only once and i usually try to buy what i think is the "best" one.

Right now i use Lee push-thru sizers and tumble lube, I only cast and load Two different 45ACP bullets and one 9mm

I had pretty much decided to go with a Star and then did a little more research on the Ballisticast, to me they seem similar and if you get all the bells and whistles the price is about the same.

thanks..............Pastor

[VHoward]

They are both good machines. If you are doing everything right, the star will never fail you and you have a good company backing up the machine. If you insist on getting a bigger hammer to size down an oversized bullet further than 4 thousanths of an inch, then the Ballisticast machine is for you. Ballisticast is a newish company that has gone through some upheaval. They appear to be straightening themselve out, but you you won't know if they are still going to be around when parts are needed.

[ssnow]

Hi Pastor,

The answer to the question Ballisti-Cast or Star is a resounding YES!!! Buy one of them :)

They both work in a similar fashion, and that method is much faster than the RCBS/Lyman/Saeco method.

I prefer the Ballisti-Cast. I think it's a little easier to set-up punch and die wise, and I much prefer its longer handle with more leverage.

If you think you may want to automate it in the future as some of the members here have done, then the Star has the advantage of having a bullet feeder readily available. The feed wheel on the Ballisti-Cast must be manually rotated, it does not automatically rotate with a pull of the handle. I don't consider this an issue for manual operation, but it is one more item you will have to deal with if you decide to try your hand at automation.

I'm not worried about them going out of business, as they seem to be working their way through their issues. I have purchased their commercial caster and sizer.........so for me that ship has sailed. I mention this only to show that I have put my money where my mouth is :) If the ship were to sink, I'll just have to deal with it when that time comes.

Ballisti-Cast or Star......Yes, get one :) Either way you will be getting a great machine, and the ability to lube and size as fast and easy as these machine will do, changes your whole perspective on casting. It becomes something you can accomplish quickly, instead of taking so long to get your bullets sized. They are game changing pieces of equipment.

[AbitNutz]

Big difference in price...if price is not an issue. I would have bought Ballisticast.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've owned both, used the Star a good bit. But comparing both on the bench, when I had to sell one, it was the Star. I believe long term, I can automatic or semi-automate the Ballisti-Cast easier than the star, though I may have to ditch the manual feed wheel.

One negative on the Star is they glue the temperature sensors into the block of the sizer rather than use a remove-able method. If you order a Mark VI, I suggest you specify you do not want them to mount the heater and that you'll mount it yourself so you can use a different method to retain the sensors and heating element other than glue/epoxy.

[angus6]

or better yet don't order their heater and for 1/2 the price build a much better pid controled unit

[pastor]

thanks for the opinions guys, i am leaning twards the Ballisticast

[Littleton Shot Maker]

off subject a t little....I have been waiting for a replacement melting pot to go on top of my M.E. automated monster for 1 year 4+ months....they keep taking orders and sending out complete machines but where are the parts for the guys that have old units trying to keep them running?

So I called Ballisticast last night--Bill Sand is the newest owner now for last 2 years- very knowledgeable - very patient- answered all my questions- even went into future design ideas and talked about ways to improve the stuff we need to make- modify--

WOW that is 180 the other way from the past experiences I'v had with the 'other guys' .I may see if their pot will work on top of my caster other wise caster will be sold minus pot, since spare can't be had from OEM co.
then I will buy the Ballistcast caster with those funds and never go back...

[GARD72977]

I have to say Ballisti-cast. Don't have experience but I am waiting on mine to come on the big brown truck!!! casting is keeping me broke. In the past two weeks I have bought 2 molds a BC sizer fully loaded and a PID for the master caster.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Gard- Bill has a ton of experience in manufacturing things and making them happen fast- That alone was enough for me-

Too many years I have asked for stuff to be changed- fixed- made better> on the Bullets masters only to get the stink eye- They are good machines - when you can keep them running- we burnt out elements- solenoids-tore up motors on the sizer and caster wore out the carrier arms-- every time something happened it was always "customer error" not bad design or soft cheap metals ... I had a new mold (less than 500 bullets on it) break "break apart" at the bevel - soooo that's my .05 worth-

Bill is working "with us" to build what WE need- not what some one wants us to buy and wait for-- I am more willing to part with my money when the Company that makes the stuff listens to their customers.

Rant over- sorry- still upset I can't get stuff when I need it for me or our Customers too , from some one we have known and done a ton of business with for 25+ years

[dromia]

Couldn't recommend Ballisti Cast, they are still having problems.

Their customer care is non existent, they make promises and don't deliver.

Not a trustworthy company in my book, still awaiting replies to my emails.

[6bg6ga]

Some of the answers here are backed with experience and some are from the word on the street. I have owned both the Mark VI and I own one magma and one star. Some have made comment suggesting there would be problems getting parts for the Ballisti-cast and these people do not own and I believe have not owned a Mark VI therefore it just becomes a Star vers a Ballisti-cast arguement.

Lets look at the machines ... The Mark VI is more robust, features a better handle for improved leverage, can size oversized bullets without the fear of breaking the machine. Yes, there is a member here that has posted that he can size a bullet of a different caliber down without breaking the machine and good for him. The only thing that will need replaced on the Mark VI is going to be the bronze bearing the ram runs thru and this is going to take years and years before one need worry about it. The good news is its replaceable and easy to simply press in a new bearing.

My story is I purchased a new Magma(same as the Star) a couple of years ago. The Ballisti-cast came out on a group buy and I bought one. Another Ballisti-cast group buy came out for the Mark IV and Mark X and I sold mine to a member here to finance a Mark IV bullet caster......bad mistake by the way. In the termoil with ownership with the Ballisti-cast people(father and son) I purchased a Star and went thru it.

Dispite comments from moderators and others Ballisti-cast is on track again and I would not hesitate to purchase one again especially if they offered a group buy.

[6bg6ga]

I've owned both, used the Star a good bit. But comparing both on the bench, when I had to sell one, it was the Star. I believe long term, I can automatic or semi-automate the Ballisti-Cast easier than the star, though I may have to ditch the manual feed wheel.

One negative on the Star is they glue the temperature sensors into the block of the sizer rather than use a remove-able method. If you order a Mark VI, I suggest you specify you do not want them to mount the heater and that you'll mount it yourself so you can use a different method to retain the sensors and heating element other than glue/epoxy.

I would like to point out the sensors will probably never have a problem and therefore won't need replaced unless you happen to drop something on them and break them. Its a small point and yes we would like to have a sensor that is possibly screwed in as they are available.

I would suspect that the Mark VI will work fine attached to an aluminum plate with the heat sensor installed in the plate like most do their Stars. A basic Mark VI with the handle upgrade, bullet wheel, mount and feed wheel would satisfy most here and add your own heater to the mix and it makes a heck of a good machine.

[dromia]

Just for the record being a moderator has nothing to do with my post.

I am posting as a very dissatisfied ballisticast customer.

When a company takes money in exchange for a product and then doesn't deliver on that product and refuses to respond to requests for a refund then there is something fundamentally wrong with that companies trading ethics.

Caveat emptor with Ballisti cast from my experience.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

dromia: are you currently having issues with Ballisti?? or is this from the past? You paid for something and they never delivered??
I will have to speak with Bill- I want to be 100% certain about my next major purchase- and want to be able to stand by a good product with good support from said outfit.

I am getting the same reports with Magma- people order- >>>wait>>>wait>>>nothing shows up - weeks go by- then- months--- customer goes to cancel and BAM there is his product ready to ship...maybe
My customer can't get them to talk to him to even take an order- "they" ( my customer ) needed ( still needs) 4 large melting pots (1st order) and will need no less than 4-6 more soon after - we got one- took 9-11 months calling ever other couple weeks- that is not a small order or some BS customer - these people are real - Large Shot gun ammo producers that want to make shot - large scale in house.

I wanted to build my own Bullets master- Master caster about 10 years ago---because it was hard to get stuff back then and we kept breaking items- now they won't talk with us-
20+ weeks for the small caster??
1 1/12 year to get the big caster??
IF I was still doing commercial bullets, we'd have to close the door for lack of support to our current casting machines- and the sizer (uugh) always a pain with air bubbles- bad lube sticks--crappy heater block controls--- had to make my own lube and finally had to go to Red Rooster labs to get good stuff---Magma user since 1987! I wish there had been another choice out there back then. I feel sick looking at the thing every time I go into the shop area.

[youngmman]

I bought a Star sizer in the mid 80's from Star and the Magma Star is the clone. I tried the other sizers, Lyman, Saeco etc and sold them because they were a relative pain in the butt to use and soooooooooooooo slow. The more automated versions from Magma and Balisti-Cast are perfect for very high volume.

Balisti-Cast did have some problems, ownership change I think, but they have been resolved as far as I can see. I just took delivery of a #634 HB PB which is identical in appearance to H&G molds I have. I still need to cast with it to know for sure how good it is but they test cast them before delivery. They said there would be a two to three week turn for delivery and that is exactly what they did. Actually I like the spru plate channel better than the original H&G molds.

[dromia]

We had a group my on a mould here via ballisticast, it has been a tortuous process with the first mould being not fit for purpose, after a lot of time and input from the honcho we were promised a replacement mould, it too was not to specification and of a poor quality. This was again reported back to BC.

The moulds were paid for up front as we thought Ballisti cast was reputable company so they have our money.

I was contacted by BC on the 2nd of May asking me to contact them so they could make things right. I replied on the 5th of May saying that for me a refund was what I needed to make things right. Despite two further emails from me I have had no reply from BC.

Things can go wrong I can accept that and the quality of a company is how they sort out their mistakes. BC's attempts to "sort" out their mess has lead to making it even a worse shambles.

They have my money and I don't have a usable mould, that is not a trustworthy company in my book.

If you do a search for 7mm Thor mould in the GB section you will see this sorry tale of BC incompetence in all its shabby glory.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I am planning a trip out to their plant (BC) in about two-three weeks--- if things don't pan out with the gent trying to build our spec. melting pots - Our customer still needs 4-8 melting pots- 150#s- dual chamber, bottom pour- 220-240 volt --5000 watts-- each-

[youngmman]

I am truly sorry for your experience with them. I wish I could explain it but obviously I can't. My experience was quite the opposite so far. I'll see how the mold casts.

[ssnow]

Hi Alan,

Ballisti-Cast has had some problems, like every new company, (or rather new ownership of an old company in this case) does..........Unfortunately, some of those problems and all the associated drama has been in the public view on these pages.

History in short; Ballisti-Cast bought the old H&G line, and began producing the old H&G molds. A couple of years ago, Bill bought Ballisti-Cast. At first he was engaged with a previous project, so his son Mike was running Ballisti-Cast.

Mike did some good things, and had some great ideas and innovative products. Mike began the association with CastBoolits with a group buy offer. Unfortunately, he had some problems with production, and was unable to meet the terms of the group buy in a timely manner. Obviously, this caused much discontent and concern here on the forum. And rightly so, the members here, myself included, had made orders, paid our money, and we were concerned about product delivery.

About that time, Bill came in took over control of Ballisti-Cast. Unfortunately, this caused a rift in the family with his son, which anyone hates to see. That drama was played out on these pages as well. It also caused concern here, because with the change in management, the members did not know what to expect.

It was a very difficult time for Bill, as he did not know who had ordered what, what promises had been made, what had been shipped......there was no good record of these things, so he was really up against it trying to get everything straightened out. A tough situation for anybody. Deep water to find oneself in. The only question is, how good can you swim? :)

As it turns out, Bill can swim pretty good :) They are now producing casting and sizing machines, both the commercial and manual machines. Quality products at a good price.

I now own both, the small manual caster and sizer, and the commercial caster and sizer. Bill has delivered on all his promises to me. If Bill promises you a pot, he will deliver.

Their mold maker is now producing excellent molds, but it has been a rocky road to get there. There have been some design issues with certain molds, some size issues also, but one by one, they are being and/or have been resolved.

Concerning the Thor group buy; This is an on going issue, not yet resolved to everyone's satisfaction, but it will be, in as much as possible. I say "in as much as possible" because some folks are very unhappy with the way it has gone, and there is nothing Bill can do that will make them "happy", but he will make them whole. They will either get the mold they want, or they will get a refund. A refund may not exactly make them happy, but it will make them whole.

This is what happened; the Thor group buy was started by the previous management. They made the molds, but they were not shipped, as that timeframe is when the management shakeup occurred. Bill sent out these molds, but they were not to spec, which of course caused discontent, and rightly so.

Bill had the new mold maker make more.........so understand......two different parties made the molds. The problem is that the second set of molds made by new maker had issues as well. Strike two and a black eye for Ballisti-Cast. The mistake Bill made, was in not personally verifying that the new molds were up to spec, and he would freely admit this if you were to ask him. Well, we don't get through life without making mistakes, but you can bet he is learning from them.

All of this has taken time, with the members here only growing more discontented all the time. During this timeframe, they have had another group buy with a different manufacturer making the mold........that being the case, some members will no longer even want a replacement....... The bottom line is that Bill would like to make them a mold, and will do so, or provide a refund.

Anyone who is dissatisfied with their mold from this group buy, call Bill. I know he wants to make it right with you.

Dromia, I spoke with Bill concerning your comments, and he is sending you a refund. Obviously, he regrets the issues that have happened with this buy, but he can't change that now. But he will send a refund.

In conclusion, Bill and Ballisti-Cast have been down a long rocky road trying to get this company up and running. They have had many issues and setbacks along the way, some that perhaps could have been avoided, others not of their making. But they have came a long way now. Most of their production issues have been resolved, and they are producing quality molds and equipment. Bill can't change a minute of the past, but he is working hard to ensure a better future for the company, and provide a great product for the customer.

Bill will deliver, he has always done so for me. He is really a good guy, and wants to do the right thing.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

thanks - this co. has been know to us since 86- since then I think 3-4 sets of owners-- stuff happens- adapt , over come.


I've owned 8 automated (ME) casters from mk2s to current version---we would run 3 to 5 at any given time- I know those machines well...had night mares about them even.

I made-make mistakes- it's public- but I have tried to fix them or refund when needed...
It's also easy to understand- from being in retails sales- sometimes even when the customer get what they wanted they still are not satisfied -- so I hold no prejudice at this time with the current Owner/ management at BC---

I know - personally the team at M.E. - they know my Dad- they know my voice over the phone as we talked almost weekly there for a long time. Dad has gone in there and even helped them with several items in the past-- we did business with them for many years >since 86-87-- "I know" the management style and owners at M.E. - after sending them business and customers for the last 20 years, even talking to some Spanish speakers for them years ago--- "I" can no longer promote or recommend them AT ALL.

MY- stuff ( melting pots ) is custom- so just for Bill to even consider it and then put it into a fast track and maybe production is a huge over all improvement from ....well ....the other guys

[ssnow]

Good. With your background, then you understand some of the difficulties Bill faced after buying a company that had been through several owners. A tough job under any circumstances. Sure there have been problems along the way. Many obstacles to overcome. Most have been resolved, but there are a few remaining issues. They too, will be resolved in time.

I hope your deal works out, it sounds like a win-win to me. I think that when you meet Bill and see his operation, you will be reassured in the man, and in his ability to deliver what you need built.

[GARD72977]

Here is my experience so far. I talked to Bill 6/3. He said that they had sizers and were shipping and he would get one ready for me. 6/4 I mailed a Postal moneyorder. 6/10 I got a email saying that the payment had been received. 6/12 got a email that the sizer had shipped.

So far the customer service has been great. I cant say that I have ever send a moneyorder and got a email for any company saying my payment has been received.

Im cleaning out a spot right now!!!!!!!!!!

[6bg6ga]

Good. With your background, then you understand some of the difficulties Bill faced after buying a company that had been through several owners. A tough job under any circumstances. Sure there have been problems along the way. Many obstacles to overcome. Most have been resolved, but there are a few remaining issues. They too, will be resolved in time.

I hope your deal works out, it sounds like a win-win to me. I think that when you meet Bill and see his operation, you will be reassured in the man, and in his ability to deliver what you need built.

ssnow has brought out some excellent points as usual. Bill has turned Ballisti-cast around. ssnow has also brought up the point that Bill is refunding a moderators money. Maybe just maybe instead of dragging a company thru the mud one should have the guts to pick up the phone and make a call. I am so tired of reading what the whinners here are saying. In short if you have a problem with a past order instead of running your mouth I suggest that you run your fingers across the keypad of your closest phone.

As upset as I am with Bill with the rift that was caused in his family I have to applaud him for getting Ballisti-cast on track again. I don't have to like a man to buy his product because I look at the engineering and craftsmanship and its there in the Ballisti-cast product.

Having owned a Mark VI its an awsome machine and the Mark IV / Mark X series of machine is a great machine. I own a Mark IV and should have purchased a Mark X.

[dromia]

Again just for information I don't call because I'm in the UK and don't want to put any more money after what I have sent already.

I was approached by ballisticast by email and I have responded by email after having told them that I would not phone them due to cost. They have my number if the wish to phone me.

I have emailed them direct three times in the past two months without reply, sharing that here with other members isn't whining it is just saying how my experience with the company has been and is.

Expecting to get what you pay for and when not getting it and sharing that isn't whining either.

I am sorry if this reflects badly on a friend of yours but that is how it is and to try and diminish the situation by ridicule isn't helpful. What would you do if you paid for something and didn't get what you had ordered and the company was refusing to acknowledge you communications?

My grief is with BC to which I have had no response. If it gets sorted out then I will have closure with the company and leave it at that, a member here has said that he has taken my case to the owner and I will be refunded. I am thankful to that member for championing my case and if it comes through I will be in his debt as me as an unknown customer obviously has no clout with BC as my communications have been ignored.

Surely having the issue resolved through a third party intervention via an open forum isn't a very good way of resolving issues and again reflects on the company.

[6bg6ga]

I guess I will have to say what is on my mind again. I have to call other countries when I have ordered product and yes it costs a few dollars but to me its the principal (sp?) of it. I deal with large corporations everyday and I have learned that email doesn't work about 90% of the time. If you could see my email account at work you would understand how easy it would be and is to loose an email.

You cannot expect to get an answer if you don't call. First you email and if you don't get results pick up the phone. The way I get results is I let them know that I am logging the call. I record the time, person I talked to, and content of the conversation. It works, it gets results, and no I may not be on their friends list but I get my business done.

You cannot blame Ballisti-cast if you refuse to pick up the phone and call them after other communications fail.

[HATCH]

I only know one FACT.

The Star design has been around for over 50 years.
There are tens of thousands of Star sizers out there.
Some made by Star Machine Works and now some made by Magma Engineering.
I could say with confidence that if Magma Engineering closed up shop tomorrow that someone else would either pick up the complete design and make them or at the very least someone would make spare parts for the ME machines (sizers and casters)

I haven't deal with BC at all nor have I used their machines, I said what I said based on what I know for a fact.
With the issues over the years here (posted publicly) with getting complete machines, molds or even spare parts from BC it should be pretty clear on what your choice should be IMHO.

[dromia]

Whatever.

Ballisti cast can do no wrong in your eyes. So no point in discussing it further with you.


I guess I will have to say what is on my mind again. I have to call other countries when I have ordered product and yes it costs a few dollars but to me its the principal (sp?) of it. I deal with large corporations everyday and I have learned that email doesn't work about 90% of the time. If you could see my email account at work you would understand how easy it would be and is to loose an email.

You cannot expect to get an answer if you don't call. First you email and if you don't get results pick up the phone. The way I get results is I let them know that I am logging the call. I record the time, person I talked to, and content of the conversation. It works, it gets results, and no I may not be on their friends list but I get my business done.

You cannot blame Ballisti-cast if you refuse to pick up the phone and call them after other communications fail.