The good 'ole .38 special! Universal boolit load?

[kawasakifreak77]

So I dug my old K38 out of dad's safe the other day. I had traded it to him for a W. German P220 but want to get reacquainted with what was for several years, my only handgun now that I'm casting my first boolits!

For the sake of discussion, there's three things I do with my firearms. Target practice mostly. Sometimes I get to wander through the woods & am lucky enough to see a bunny rabbit, if I do my part I get to cook it. Lastly is self defense. Thankfully I've never had to use a firearm for this purpose & don't look for a fight but I want to be ready if the need arises.

I'm making Lyman 358429s from basically anything that will melt, haha! Lead pipe, WW, range scrap, etc. As of now, its my only mould.

I read several threads suggesting 5gr Unique for powder & that should be around 900 fps. For the .38, I feel thats pretty respectable.

I've shot them in my 686, at much higher velocities & man do they make pretty holes in paper! So the target shooting part is covered.

I'm wondering if the suggested load would be too much for bunnies or similar game? I managed to bag a bunny once with the 'ole K38 back when I had my farm & practiced with it almost daily. I can't remember what load I shot it with but I popped him right in the head, so no meat damage. I'm not that good anymore so I wonder how much meat would be lost in a body shot if hit with the 358429. I know its more than enough power.

Lastly, if you had a cylinder full of these Keith boolits coming out at 900 fps, would you feel well prepared for defense? I'm not talking about war here, more like a nightstand proposition.

Personally I don't want to be on the wrong end of anything that goes bang. I feel the suggested load would get the job done with aplomb at short range if one's life was in danger.

Thoughts?

[kawasakifreak77]

Oh. I've already loaded 20 rounds with 5gr unique & the Lyman 358429 to test for accuracy & velocity. I also loaded up 20 of what I believe to be Lee tumble lube SWCs over the same charge. I don't have this mould, got the boolits in a trade. They weigh 162gr with a short, fat nose & have six little grooves, plain base. Nice looking little boolit. I'm excited to see how it preforms! They are larger in diameter than my 358429s though, measuring every bit of .360" I had a bear of a time getting these seated. Several got tossed in the lead box, apparently I need a larger expander die.

Will advise.

[Char-Gar]

The 38 Special is probably my favorite handgun round and I feel confident in it's ability to do anything I want a handgun to do. I am not talking deer or larger here as I don't hunt those things. For a bedside gun, brush gun, companion piece it is all I need.

I have used just about any and every style bullet out there and my two favorites are the 150-160 grain RN such as Lyman 358311 or any good solid base wadcutter. I have been shooting both these bullets powered by 3.5/Bulleye for over 25 years now. If anything with flesh, blood, bone and nerves might be the target, the RN is out and the WC is in.

Ed Harris makes a good case that the double ended wadcutter is the best of the breed, but I have not proven that for myself yet, but I am not really working hard at that task. I seen no purpose to try and prove him wrong or right, when he is most likely correct to about a 99.99% certainty. Currently I am using a Hensley and Gibbs flat nose wadcutter and it seems to work just fine for me. I like flat!

For me the above is the universal load for the 38 Special. Again that is 3.5/Bulleye under the 150 - 160 grain bullet of your choice. The 38 Special round and the firearms chambered for it have been around for a very long time. Billions of rounds have been loaded for it by factories around the world and guys like us in their garages. There are no more secrets to be revealed or mysteries to be solved. Just load with time proved combinations and shoot. That is all their is to it.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on the 3.5 load of Bullseye under any 150 - 160 gr cast bullet. That is also my "standard" .38 SPL load with the 358477 or the TL358-158-SWC. I have also used it with several other designs including the 358429s.

Have to say my favorite and most deadly bunny load is a soft WC over 2.7 or 3 gr of Bullseye. A body heat lung shot anchors them well. I gave up on the 358429 for use on edible small game if a headshot was not used. The long sloping nose on that one seemed to slip through squirrels and rabbits w/o anchoring them and after too many made to and down their holes I went back to the WCs. On the other hand the 358477 or the 358356 cast soft (40-1) and loaded over 5.5 gr Unique (at SAAMI +p psi) is very good in game (two or 4 legged) larger than squirrels and bunny rabbits.

Before I get a rash of post about me condemning the 358429 understand that I am not. It is a good bullet. Just doesn't anchor bunny rabbits good enough compared to the WC is all.

Larry Gibson

[Love Life]

My universal load is 5 gr of Unique under the 358429. I also use 5 gr of Unique under the Lee 358-125-RF and the Lyman 358477.

The Lyman 358429 over 5 gr of Unique plows through the bunnies with minimal damage. However; most of the ones I have shot have expired rather quickly.

I feed them to my model 28:

[Scout800a]

We have really like 2.9 grains of clays under that boolit in lots of different 357/38's.

[FergusonTO35]

I love any 150-160 grain slug over 5.8 grains Accurate #5 and a Remington primer. Clocks 870 fps out of my 4" S&W 10-5.

[bedbugbilly]

I have a number of molds for my 38s - Lees 358-150-1R, Lee TL358-158-SWC, an Ideal 160 gr WC and a Ideal 160 gr RN - pretty much identical to the 160 gr RN that I also cast out of an original Winchester mold. I also use Bulls Eye with all of them. I load lighter loads as I just "plink" - usually 3.0 gr under the 150 and 160 gr lead bullets.

A while back, when I started loading for 9mm, I picked up a Lee 356-120-TC mold. It drops them at .358. For the 9mm, I size them to .357 but for my 38s, I load them "as cast". At first, I didn't have any great expectations out of this bullet in my 38s. I played around and finally ended up loading them over 3.2 grains of BE and they shoot very well. I was very pleasantly surprised. I have 7 revolvers that I can shoot 38s out of - 2", 4", 5", 5 1/2", and 6" barrel lengths.

My favorite "go to" revolver is my 1952 S & W M & P with the 5" barrel. It just plain shoots great. I don't hunt anymore but I did a lot of it over the years. If I was going bunny hunting, I'd probably use the 356-120-TC over 3.2 gr of BE as I think that I could probably have good luck with it at "bunny hunting distances". If you ever get a chance, you might try that particular bullet out.

When I purchased my Lee TL358-158-SWC - I wasn't too sure how I'd like the tumble lubed groove design. I have found that its a nice slug out of my 38s. They drop from my mold at right around .358 so I shoot 'em as cast. I lube all of my cast bullets - TL or conventional lube groove - by tumble lubing in a lox and paste wax. As I said, I load on the lighter side and keep 'em slow - have never had a leading problem.

To me, the 38 spl. is just a really neat and fun cartridge - so many bullet designs and loads to play with.

[lylejb]

My most used 38 load is the Lee 358-158-rf with 3.5 tightgroup........ mostly because I have that in a 6 cavity mold, and I haven't found a can of bullseye in 2+ years.

Really, the 38 is a very flexible round. LOTS of options that will work. About 3-3.5gr of any of the fast powders (bullseye, red dot, 700x, tightgroup, American select, green dot, AA#2, W231, and more) with a 158gr or so boolit will get you on target.

Your 5.0 unique load will be fine. Please be aware, that's a slight +P load. Alliant shows 4.7gr with a 158 swc as standard pressure load, and 5.2 gr as max for +P.

Nothing wrong with that in the K38, just plan on going with the 357 if / when you want more.

[kawasakifreak77]

Thanks for all the tips & loads guys. Those are some gorgeous wheel guns too! My first real gun was a 70s model 10. Shot the snot out of that poor thing including some local bowling pin competitions. .38 special is also the first cartridge I reloaded for so we've got some history. My K38 is rough. I mean ROUGH. But its honestly the best shooting handgun I've ever picked up. I'm excited!

How fast are these 3.5gr bullseye loads? That works out to 2000 rounds / pound of powder!

I have three manuals with unique data but only up to 158gr. One stops at 4.2gr (new Hornady) the next one stops at 4.8 (old Hornady) & the last one stops at 5.5 (old Alliant) the Alliant is the only one with pressure readings though & its about as old as the Unique I'm burning, haha!

After looking up several threads about the 358429, I feel safe with the 5.0 load. My powder dropper doesn't seem to like Unique so I measured out each one.

I also loaded up 20 more with store bought 158 SWC. I've got some Remington 158 LRN ammo to compare also so the K38 is gonna get one heck of a workout this weekend!

[TXGunNut]

Have fun with that old .38, OP. It's indeed "special" as few cartridges in it's class are as accurate in a properly loaded wheelgun. I shot PPC for years and have seen truly amazing groups shot with the lowly .38. I've also gone lots of places for lots of years with one in my pocket or on my belt and felt perfectly safe. Can't comment on it's suitability for hunting but it seems you and a few others have that covered.
Hope you enjoy your 38 this weekend, may have to drag one out myself. :-)

[dubber123]

I would expect that 3.5 grs. of Bullseye load with a 158 gr. boolit to clock about 850 fps. from what I am guessing is a 6" barrel on your K38. I shoot a lot of 3.5 Grs. of Green Dot, which is slightly slower than Bullseye, and it runs about 850 from my 6" guns. I would normally be using Bullseye, but have a bunch of Green Dot currently.

[azrednek]

I would normally be using Bullseye, but have a bunch of Green Dot currently.

Bullseye!! Isn't that the powder that used to sit on the shelf at any retailer that sold powder?? Not counting the gunshow blood sucking ticks asking $50+ for a one pound can. Outside of the half pound I managed to siphon off from a friend's 8 lb keg. I haven't seen Bullseye in a few years.

[StratsMan]

Bullseye!! Isn't that the powder that used to sit on the shelf at any retailer that sold powder?? Not counting the gunshow blood sucking ticks asking $50+ for a one pound can. Outside of the half pound I managed to siphon off from a friend's 8 lb keg. I haven't seen Bullseye in a few years.

My powder "collection" used to be called 'hoarding'... I haven't bought Bullseye for 10 years, and still have about 10 pounds left... Now folks call my collection "smart"...

To the OP.... I agree with comments from others here: 38 SPL is easy to load for... I've used 2.7gr B'eye with anything that would fit in the case, including a 200 grain test boolit from RCBS down to a 95 grain plinker from NOE... (Jacketed bullets are too expensive to play with, so if I load those then I do stay within published guidelines.) I've used the 3.5 grain B'eye load that others have mentioned, but only up to the 160 grain range ('cuz that's currently my heaviest mold)... But the 2.7 - 3.0 grain loads will reliably push anything out the muzzle. I normally just kill paper, and I haven't found any of it that will resist the Power of the 38, so I haven't bothered to chrony the loads...

[azrednek]

I normally just kill paper, and I haven't found any of it that will resist the Power of the 38, so I haven't bothered to chrony the loads...

Don't underestimate the killing power of a 38. I rolled ("rolled" not an exaggeration) a Coyote with a factory 125 HP 38+P from a Rossi lever rifle. I'd like to brag but it was just a lucky shot at a moving target at a short distance.

[Outpost75]

If you have Unique that you want to use up, 4 grains in the .38 Special with your 146-150 grain wadcutter, gives the same velocity as the 3.5 Bullseye load.

[kawasakifreak77]

Well I took all the different loads out & boy my old K38 must be a 'slow' gun... I was only getting around 750 FPS with the 5.0 grains of Unique & Lyman 358429. I was pretty disappointed. I didn't clock the rest of the loads, I figured the difference wouldn't be that much & the 358429 is the only boolit I'm making anyways.

I just shot the rest up, walking a pop can downrange until there was so little left I couldn't move it anymore. It was daw gone 50 meters away by that point so the K38 is still crazy accurate. Leading seemed almost non existent, which was nice. Although man did I forget how smoky Unique was!

I think I'll set her back in Dad's safe & get back to working with my 686. I want more juice so it's time to get the L frame back out!

[texassako]

We have really like 2.9 grains of clays under that boolit in lots of different 357/38's.

I tried a bunch of Clays loads today with several 150-160gr styles since I have most of a pound sitting on the shelf. It shot pretty much every 158-160gr SWC and RN w/ 3.1gr in my Security Six as well as or better than my usual Bullseye or Unique loads. It did not shoot as well as Bullseye under a 35891 BBWC, but now I can save my Bullseye for the WC loads for a while.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I really like clays. Fast, clean and efficient.
I was using 2.5 grains under my 358495 and I thought I was never going to finish off the pound of powder.
2800 awesome target loads out of a pound sure is nice.
Now that it's all gone in back to bullseye.

[1874Sharps]

It is interesting to me as I look back across the decades of reloading the venerable 38 Special. In my younger years it seems like I was out to get magnum performance out of every gun I had. Nowadays I appreciate the older, slower cartridges for what they are and were designed to be. A 38Special is simply a joy to shoot and load for! It is easy to load good ammunition and I have been impressed with its wide tolerance. It just seems to be easy to load great fodder with a great variety of boolits and powders. Part of the reason for this, no doubt, is because there are many fine quality revolvers in this caliber and when shot from these guns there is no action the cartridge must feed through.

Yes, the 38 Special can be used as a defensive gun. I carry one in my pocket for that purpose (+P ammo). Some may consider the limited capacity and power of this round to be unacceptable, but I think for the large majority of scenarios it is adequate. Afterall, a person cannot reasonably guard against every extreme possibility.

For me, the standard target load is 2.3 grains of Bullseye with an RCBS Cowboy 158 grain RFN. It shoots comfortably and accurately in an alloy frame pocket revolver and full size revolver as well. For defensive ammo I use top quality commercial rounds.