C No 4 Mk 1*

[Larry Gibson]

Never owned a SMLE or any other "Enfield" rifle before. Shot lots of them though. My basic .303 Brit has been a Ross M10. Have been keeping an eye on what looked like a decent Longbranch C No 4 Mk 1* at a LGS for more than a year now. Looked decent under the cosmoline anyway. Was in there a week or so ago and the store guy who I BS with all the time asked if I wanted to buy a gun. I made a low ball offer and he talked to the store owner who said "deal"! Well there I was stuck but said he'd have to patch the bore for me before I said yes......he agreed. My oh my what a beautiful 5 groove bore that looked new!

Well, long story short I got it home last night and have been cleaning it most of the day off and on. Looks good to me. It has a walnut stock in very good condition with a few dings and the butt is marked up like it saw a lot of drill "on parade" as they say. Blue finish shows hardly any wear. The bore is perfect with excellent rifling back to a very sharp leade. A .303 pin just slides into the bore and 3 slugs all came out .312. Trigger pull is about 5 lbs but breaks pretty clean so I'll use it as is for a while. I made a bit for the front sight lock screw so I can adjust the windage if need be. I have 4 stripper clips and they all loaded both some Mk 7, some Winchester commercial and some cast reloads into the mag as good as any Enfield I've tried stripper loading in. The serial number is in the high 92Lxxxx range so I figure it was made in '51 or '52? The inside of the mag was also hardly scraped up so it appears not many rounds were ever loaded into it. The bolt face also is very clean showing little sign of firing.

Still thought I paid too much until I looked up what some used C No 4 Mk 1*s are selling for on the internet......yikes! Anyways I've some very good South African milsurp Mk 7 ammo and some 314299s already loaded. Might get out in the morning to test them.

Well I now have 2 Canadian .303s..........

Larry Gibson

105732105733105734105735105737

[Outpost75]

Nice rifle!

[Throwback]

Nice looking rifle Larry. It is getting harder and harder to find these in military dress anymore.

[JeffinNZ]

Sweet. Try 14gr of 2400 unders 314299.

[Fishman]

Very nice. You know, it seems like any more, enfields I see are overpriced and ratty to boot. Good find and I look forward to a range report.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I've had a few of those rifles over the years and they were all pretty good shooters! I have a friend from Cambridge, England that had one that was out right amazing! If you read about the Operation Market Garden in WWII the Brits used those rifles to good effect at Arnham even though they lost the town to the SS!

[EDG]

Larry
Are you familiar with US made brass having .450 heads and the Lee-Enfield chambers being .460. In addition, with some brands of US brass the shoulder is .06 or more short of the shoulder in the chamber. In addition the action is rear locking so your case life or lack there of may shock you. Then again you may already know more about this than I do.

[Larry Gibson]

EDG

Thanks for the reminder. I was aware of the chamber dimensional potential problems with a lot of Enfields. Just measured the SA milsurp cases I have and it measures .455 - .456 just in front of the rim. Both the Wiinchester and R-P cases I have measure .4505 quite consistently just in front of the rim. Looks like I'll be making a chamber cast in the morning to get the chamber dimensions. Didn't get out today to shoot it. The C No 4 Mk 1*s rear locking lugs lock up very tight and evenly on this rifle. I am pleasantly pleased with the quality and condition of this rifle. Got lucky:smile:

In the picture the left round is the SA milsurp, the right round is a Winchester factory and the center round is a once fired R-P case (fired in the Ross M10). The once fired cases from the Ross would not chamber in the C No 4 Mk 1*. I adjusted the FL die so I can just feel the C No 4 Mk 1*s bolt close on a sized case so those Ross once fired cases are now headspacing on the shoulder of the C No 4 Mk 1*s chamber instead of the case rim. I will be NSing with a shortened "06 Redding bushing die using a bushing size to give .002 neck tension on the .314 sized cast bullets. Thus I expect case life to be reasonably good considering only cast loads will be used other than an initial test of the SA Mk 7 milsurp. I have 250 of the once fired R-P cases (fired in the Ross M10) so they will also be sized to the headspace of the C No 4 Mk 1*. I have another 100 new R-P cases and will probably put cellophane tape around the case head to keep them centered in the chamber the 1st time. I will be tracking times fired so will have a handle on case life. I'm using the SA cases converted to Boxer SR primers in the Ross so both rifles will have dedicated cases.

I only know about loading the .303 from helping friends load for their Enfields in the past. When I got the Ross M10 some years back I researched the subject quite a bit and have been successfully loading for that rifle for some time. I do understand this is a different rifle and I've only minimal knowledge and experience with reloads, especially cast ones but I expect with help here and experience on the range the learning curve will be sharp. I'm looking forward to it:happy dance:

Larry Gibson

105865

[Larry Gibson]

Hi,
I've had a few of those rifles over the years and they were all pretty good shooters! I have a friend from Cambridge, England that had one that was out right amazing! If you read about the Operation Market Garden in WWII the Brits used those rifles to good effect at Arnham even though they lost the town to the SS!

Having been a paratrooper myself for many years and even managed training with the Canadian Para's a bit how could I not know about "Market Garden" and Arnham! The American and British Paratroops were my heroes when I was growing up.

Larry Gibson

[seagiant]

Having been a paratrooper myself for many years and even managed training with the Canadian Para's a bit how could I not know about "Market Garden" and Arnham! The American and British Paratroops were my heroes when I was growing up.

Larry Gibson

Hi Larry,
I actually worked for a guy when I was a kid that was American Airborn wounded in that operation! For some reason I seem to meet these people in my travels. His son was a Navy Fighter Pilot flying off of Aircraft Carriers,and the world goes round and round!

[EDG]

I forgot to add that PPU brass measures .454 to .455 ahead of the rim and the shoulder is closer to the case mouth. They are rumored to last much longer than US made brass but I have yet to try mine.

[PAT303]

PPU cases are the only type worth using IMHO. Pat

[ukrifleman]

.303 PPU brass is very good, HXP is better!

One to avoid is S&B, reloaded case life is very short.

ukrifleman.

[blaser.306]

From what I understand, 30/40 krag brass re formed and fire formed to the 303's chamber make a good matchas well with the rim thickness being greater on the krag ( if your rifle shows any need for head-space correction )

[seagiant]

Hi,
I was at my local gun range years ago and a guy was there shooting 30-06 Greek HXP surplus ammo. I noticed he wasn't picking up the brass. I asked if he wanted it? He said no it was Berdan primed. I picked it up after he left and it was actually Boxer primed! It is VERY nice brass and I'm now using it in my Model 1917!

[DR Owl Creek]

Larry,

Congrats! Very nice rifle!

Dave

[higgins]

The "A inside the C" stamp on the wood signifies Canadian Arsenals, I believe the contractor successor to the government-run Longbranch arsenal. Same arsenal different name. I have a C No.4 Mk1* that was sporterized by cutting the forearm just above the lower barrel band. If anyone has a spare walnut forearm with the stamp shown in Larry's photo, please PM me. I have all the other pieces I need to restore it. Mine shoots pretty good with the cutoff forearm flopping around; I'm sure it would be a very good shooter with the proper forearm installed.

There's also some Canadian military boxer-primed cases that are very good cases. I believe the headstamp is DIZ, but I could be wrong.

The date should be stamped on the receiver somewhere - maybe still under some grease?

[NVcurmudgeon]

EDG

Thanks for the reminder. I was aware of the chamber dimensional potential problems with a lot of Enfields. Just measured the SA milsurp cases I have and it measures .455 - .456 just in front of the rim. Both the Wiinchester and R-P cases I have measure .4505 quite consistently just in front of the rim. Looks like I'll be making a chamber cast in the morning to get the chamber dimensions. Didn't get out today to shoot it. The C No 4 Mk 1*s rear locking lugs lock up very tight and evenly on this rifle. I am pleasantly pleased with the quality and condition of this rifle. Got lucky:smile:

In the picture the left round is the SA milsurp, the right round is a Winchester factory and the center round is a once fired R-P case (fired in the Ross M10). The once fired cases from the Ross would not chamber in the C No 4 Mk 1*. I adjusted the FL die so I can just feel the C No 4 Mk 1*s bolt close on a sized case so those Ross once fired cases are now headspacing on the shoulder of the C No 4 Mk 1*s chamber instead of the case rim. I will be NSing with a shortened "06 Redding bushing die using a bushing size to give .002 neck tension on the .314 sized cast bullets. Thus I expect case life to be reasonably good considering only cast loads will be used other than an initial test of the SA Mk 7 milsurp. I have 250 of the once fired R-P cases (fired in the Ross M10) so they will also be sized to the headspace of the C No 4 Mk 1*. I have another 100 new R-P cases and will probably put cellophane tape around the case head to keep them centered in the chamber the 1st time. I will be tracking times fired so will have a handle on case life. I'm using the SA cases converted to Boxer SR primers in the Ross so both rifles will have dedicated cases.

I only know about loading the .303 from helping friends load for their Enfields in the past. When I got the Ross M10 some years back I researched the subject quite a bit and have been successfully loading for that rifle for some time. I do understand this is a different rifle and I've only minimal knowledge and experience with reloads, especially cast ones but I expect with help here and experience on the range the learning curve will be sharp. I'm looking forward to it:happy dance:

Larry Gibson

105865

You are definitely on the right track with making the brass fit the chamber. Don't know why too many users blame excessive headspace instead of large chambers that make for sure chambering with issue ammunition that is made all over the world. No wonder the British and Commonwealth countries stayed with rimmed cartridges for so long. For a comparison on full length, partial, and neck sizing in long chambers see my article on the three methods on the .303 Page.

[BruceB]

One more recommendation for my friend NVC and his article on sizing for the .303. Excellent advice!

In my own "case", I have a pair of new-condition #4 rifles...... a 1955 Fazakerley and a 1943 Long Branch (plus a Ruger #1 in .303 British).

I've found that a .308 Winchester sizing die will nicely resize .303 necks WITHOUT TOUCHING any other part of the case.

Once I get my new shop set up, I intend to try sizing .303 necks in the .308 SEATING die, to see what the neck dimensions will be from that die.

Creative handloading, yes indeedy....

[W.R.Buchanan]

I been looking for one like this for some time, however I wasn't sure of the actual designation, C No4 Mk1 is the ticket.

My basic consideration was getting the latest version made and that rear sight which is peculiar (I think) to that model.

And I want to cut the stock off so it looks like an L42. I already have the 314299 mould, and that is the reason I need this gun.

It would be another short range silhouette cast boolit gun.

Larry it looks like you got a good one. :mrgreen:

Randy

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=higgins;2793544]The "A inside the C" stamp on the wood signifies Canadian Arsenals, QUOTE

That is not an "A" inside the C.

Rather, it's the Canadian version of the famous British "Broad Arrow" ownership mark. The Canadian authorities simply placed the "C" around the Arrow to indicate their ownership.

Canadian military organizations have an almost-phobic attachment to adding SOME kind of "Canadian designation" to foreign designs which they adopt.

Witness the "C#4" on this thread. Witness my "Bren C Mk 1" Witness the "CF-18" fighter, which everyone else just calls the F-18.

Witness the Canadian FAL rifles, "C1" , "C1A1", and "C2".... all of which were called the L1/L1A1 and L2 series by the rest of the Commonwealth. (In fairness, I must point out that Canada was the FIRST country to put the FAL into mass production, so perhaps in this case they had "dibs" on the naming rights.)

By the way, my 1943 Long Branch does NOT have a "C" identifier, being marked simply as "#4 Mk1* ".

Later service rifles in Canada also bear "C" numbers for identification.

[zuke]

I like the LEE collet dies for my 303 reloading, and don't forget the "O" ring trick with the brass

[dualsport]

i like the lee collet dies for my 303 reloading, and don't forget the "o" ring trick with the brass
bingo!!

[303Guy]

My No4's have pretty snug chambers. I do not have any case life issues with my Lee Enfield's although many would deem my practice to be somewhat unorthodox if not unsafe. However, it is not unsafe and does extend case life to the point of being almost indefinite. Point is, case life is not really an issue.

[higgins]

I still think the lower right photo shows the Canadian Arsenal "A inside a C" mark.

[paul edward]

I've found that a .308 Winchester sizing die will nicely resize .303 necks WITHOUT TOUCHING any other part of the case.

Many years ago, when cash was scarce, I neck sized .303 British cases in 7.65x54 Mauser dies. Also used the seating dies. Expect you could use 7.7x58 Arisaka dies. All of these calibers work well with the cast 311299.

[Engineer_Scott]

That's a nice looking Enfield! I own a 1942 No 1 Mk 4 made in Maltby, England. I found it in a Trading Post in New Hampshire back in 1993. I gave $75.00 for it. Times were hard for me at the time and I didn't have a penny to spare. I am very happy that I did. I've enjoyed shooting it over the years. It sure does a job on a coyote!