Old school sporting rifles

[DeanWinchester]

Didn't know where to really put this.

If anyone has the time and inclination, I'd like to see some examples or hear of some builds from yesteryear. Modern custom rifles are nice and all but lack something. A rebarreled Mauser in a walnut stock is forever nice but kinda like a 350 small block. How many have we seen?

There was a guy at the range a few months ago with a BEAUTIFUL mannlicher rifle. Butter knife handle, double set trigger, split bridge receiver with a rear peep the was spring loaded and flopped out of the way every time you cycled the bolt and snapped back afterwards. Never seen that before!
The stock was incredible.

You just don't see this stuff any more.....and I want one! Just don't know what exactly. Definitely know I want a 358 Winchester though. I was on my head to build one a few months ago and even tracked down everything to build a savage but got to looking at it, yawned out of boredom and gave up. Sold the rifle and never ordered the barrel.

Is it just me or is there a serious lack of creativity these days?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I agree about the craftsmanship of the older rifles. Early last year a friend brought over a "safe Queen" of a 6.5 Mannlicher Schanaur that he had gotten in a bulk buy of an estate many years back. We determined it was a war bring back. It was beautifully done from an early 1900`s miltary Mannlicher of probable Greek (?) usage. He died last Summer and his widow did something with his gun collection. I`ve not seen the Mannlicher since despite my requests to buy it in memory of my friend.Robert

[salpal48]

Most people Today are not interested in Custom Built Rifle. I have had rifles built all my life and they are sometime a work of art
I have enclosed 3 of mine for your inspection
The first Photo is a Griffin and Howe in 35 Newton made by griffin and howe . with a custom. Mr. Hal Hartly maple stock. Circa 1925 stock 1950
Photo #2 Westly Richard cal 425 wr take down circa 1927 -1930
photo #3 Griffin &h cal 35 newton, circa 1926 . I just had the stock refinished. 1/2 oct 1/2 round barrel with rib
All of the Above I purchased from the Mr. Phil Sharp estate years ago.

[DeanWinchester]

See, that's the problem for me. I don't KNOW these names but really would like to. I've heard of Westley Richards but not Griffin & Howe. I know, shame on me.

All beautiful by the way but the Westley Richards take down is the cats meow!!




Today all we know is plastic is fantastic and tacticool. I'm a hypocrite of sorts, I carry a Glock everyday. I do that because, and you will HAVE to agree, as I waller around on the ground changing tires, ruining my clothes, it's NOT possible for me to do anything to make my Glock any uglier.
I'd trade a kidney for a nice m1907 Roth Steyr but I'd NEVER carry it daily. Lol!

[DeanWinchester]

I remember looking at old gun rags my grandfather had when I was a child. I loved to see those things. There was one I'd always make believe my little Marlin was when I was hunting. I should go google it before I look a fool but I think it was a Winslow Crown Grade something or another.

[gnoahhh]

If you want to educate yourself about the fascinating world of pre-War custom gun making, get yourself copies of "Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century" by Michael Petrov, volumes I and II. They were written by a guy who spent his adult life researching the subject, collecting the guns, and writing about them. Unfortunately Michael died three months ago and there probably won't be anymore volumes. The guy who is handling the dispersal of Michael's estate is selling the remaining copies of the books on eBay. (Do a word search for the title.) Great bedside reading, and an inspiration to those of us who enjoy studying, collecting, and re-creating that genre of rifles.

[Outpost75]

Winchester Model 54 .30 Gov't '06 with factory installed Lyman 48 long-slide peep sight, circa 1934.

105464

[FrankG]

Heres one of many I have done. Its an FN 98 action , Wilson barrel in 375-06 AI .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/375-06001.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/375-06001.jpg.html)

Not a real good pic , but this is how I sweep the bolts.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/375-06002.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/375-06002.jpg.html)

[DeanWinchester]

I absolutely love the way the cheek part is cut on those style stocks. NOONE does that anymore.

[salpal48]

Nice sharp pistol grip and very good sweep on the bolt. Great cartridge also
Sal

[Char-Gar]

If you want to educate yourself about the fascinating world of pre-War custom gun making, get yourself copies of "Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century" by Michael Petrov, volumes I and II. They were written by a guy who spent his adult life researching the subject, collecting the guns, and writing about them. Unfortunately Michael died three months ago and there probably won't be anymore volumes. The guy who is handling the dispersal of Michael's estate is selling the remaining copies of the books on eBay. (Do a word search for the title.) Great bedside reading, and an inspiration to those of us who enjoy studying, collecting, and re-creating that genre of rifles.

An AMen to that, I just bought both of them two weeks ago. They are a treasure trove of information and picture of great rifles and rifle makers of the 20th Century.

[Char-Gar]

I have always loved the pre-war sporters, but never had the money to buy them. A few years back I started to build clones of the ones I like most. Here is my clone Springfield NRA Sporter and Bob Owen styled Mauser. These are very good pics, but they are the best I have right now.

[Char-Gar]

See, that's the problem for me. I don't KNOW these names but really would like to. I've heard of Westley Richards but not Griffin & Howe. I know, shame on me.

All beautiful by the way but the Westley Richards take down is the cats meow!!




Today all we know is plastic is fantastic and tacticool. I'm a hypocrite of sorts, I carry a Glock everyday. I do that because, and you will HAVE to agree, as I waller around on the ground changing tires, ruining my clothes, it's NOT possible for me to do anything to make my Glock any uglier.
I'd trade a kidney for a nice m1907 Roth Steyr but I'd NEVER carry it daily. Lol!

Griffin and Howe is still in business and they have a web site. They also have a good selection of used rifles for sale, many of them high end custom. Take a look. The great British firm of Holland and Holland also have a web site that is fun to tour and drool over the fine "bespoke" rifles.

[C. Latch]

I, too, remember seeing the 'crown grade' Winslow in the old Gun Trader's Guides when I was a kid.

(dirty secret: 98 mauser actions bore me to tears. I love the stockwork, though) I never dreamed I'd afford a Winslow, but the Parker-Hale 1200 always looked nice. My grandpa also had an Interarms mauser of some sort that was very nice.....can't remember the model name. He also had a whitworth mauser in .308 with an english straight stock. Beautiful wood, but, again....all on Mauser actions. Meh.

I do have one 98, it was customized in the 50's, I think, with a svelte straight stock and I think the barrel was by Brooks (?) in Arizona. Or somewhere else out west. It was a 1-14" .257 Roberts. Too slow of a twist for what I wanted to do with it. Dad had a friend who offered to rebarrel it with a Douglas 25-06 barrel, and we just lost interest in it after that. If you like that sort of thing, though, yes, it's very pretty.

[salpal48]

You really can't go wrong with the classics. No plastic , No mags, Just wood and Metal The way it was suppose to be . The first Custom Gun I had made was a commercial Mauser Barreled By PO Ackley . Stocked Paul Jager in 35 whelen.
I enclosed a photo

[Frank46]

Dean, the sight you described probably was a model 36 lyman. Usually they will fit the mannlicher schoenaur rifles, the 1888 commission rifles and maybe the carcano's. Be prepared for sticker shock as they can be expensive. Frank

[shredder]

Most people Today are not interested in Custom Built Rifle. I have had rifles built all my life and they are sometime a work of art
I have enclosed 3 of mine for your inspection
The first Photo is a Griffin and Howe in 35 Newton made by griffin and howe . with a custom. Mr. Hal Hartly maple stock. Circa 1925 stock 1950
Photo #2 Westly Richard cal 425 wr take down circa 1927 -1930
photo #3 Griffin &h cal 35 newton, circa 1926 . I just had the stock refinished. 1/2 oct 1/2 round barrel with rib
All of the Above I purchased from the Mr. Phil Sharp estate years ago.

Holy moly!!! I am just recovering from the shock of seeing 3 of Phil Sharpe's rifles posted here. Now that is some old school custom rifle craft. My kind of rifles if only I could afford those ones!

[Reg]

If you really like this style of rifle or just appreciate excellent workmanship, I would refer you to the ASSRA site. Look under For Sale or Trade and look for the thread , Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century by Michael Petrov.
Joe Debrzynski, a family friend , is selling both of Mr. Petrov's book, Vol 1 and 2.
There are a few books out there that show this style of rifle but in these two volumes most of the known information is collected both on the rifles and the makers. Must haves in my book and the price is more than right.

[gnoahhh]

My dad and I met Phil Sharpe. Pop's buddy lived kind of next door to Phil and we wandered over one day to say hello. I was very small and don't remember much of it- probably right soon before his death. I remember being in the shooting house looking out the flip-open window at the targets downrange, and the godawful noise when a rifle was fired therein. When Sharpe died (suicide, cancer, or both- accounts differ) and the estate was disbursed my dad's friend got a lot of odds and ends- mostly ammo. I still have two boxes of Palma Match ammo, some Frankford Arsenal 1927 Match ammo, and some FA-70 primers that came from Sharpe's stuff. (God help me, but I shot away a bunch of other Sharpe stuff back in the 60's.) Sharpe had a local reputation as a ladies man, which got him in a little trouble with some jealous husbands! Quite the character, to say the least.

His two seminal works (the rifle book and the handloading book) are something I constantly refer to, to this day. I think the handloading book is more of an original work than the rifle book. Much of the info in the rifle book was plagiarized from advertising copy, press releases and catalogs pertaining to the factory rifles of the day. That's not to detract from the research value of the book though.

All in all a colorful character who made a very significant contribution to the shooting sports.

[Bent Ramrod]

This isn't a custom gun, but in terms of numbers produced it might as well be. A Newton rifle from just prior to WWI.

105589

Newton was pretty opinionated about what the rifle of the future should be. Bolt action, high intensity cartridge, multiple locking lugs and scope mounting pads on the receiver. Also set triggers and take down feature. The rifle feels marvelously light, in an era when 9 lbs. was about average and nobody had ever heard of a "mountain rifle."

[skeettx]

Early 1950s Rem 721 in 30-06 and Texas Fork-Horn
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/deer52.jpg

[salpal48]

Newton Made very aggressive cartridges. . The ones I have are the same very light and Heavy recoil. My 30 and 35 are in that Heavy areas. i have a 276 newton on A Mauser By G&H. I believe it's the only One made. Very Very fast.
The 256 and the 22 newton are easy compared to them.
Newton was far ahead of his time.

[Reg]

My dad and I met Phil Sharpe. Pop's buddy lived kind of next door to Phil and we wandered over one day to say hello. I was very small and don't remember much of it- probably right soon before his death. I remember being in the shooting house looking out the flip-open window at the targets downrange, and the godawful noise when a rifle was fired therein. When Sharpe died (suicide, cancer, or both- accounts differ) and the estate was disbursed my dad's friend got a lot of odds and ends- mostly ammo. I still have two boxes of Palma Match ammo, some Frankford Arsenal 1927 Match ammo, and some FA-70 primers that came from Sharpe's stuff. (God help me, but I shot away a bunch of other Sharpe stuff back in the 60's.) Sharpe had a local reputation as a ladies man, which got him in a little trouble with some jealous husbands! Quite the character, to say the least.

His two seminal works (the rifle book and the handloading book) are something I constantly refer to, to this day. I think the handloading book is more of an original work than the rifle book. Much of the info in the rifle book was plagiarized from advertising copy, press releases and catalogs pertaining to the factory rifles of the day. That's not to detract from the research value of the book though.

All in all a colorful character who made a very significant contribution to the shooting sports.

Could you elaborate a bit more on Sharpe ? I had seen it mentioned that he had died young under rather different circumstances but could find out nothing more. Any other stories, etc .
A lot of the guys from not that long ago made quite a name for themselves at least from what was left in print but but it's their personal life's that really made interesting reading. Many are the stories that are told about John Amber.

[gmsharps]

If you want to educate yourself about the fascinating world of pre-War custom gun making, get yourself copies of "Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century" by Michael Petrov, volumes I and II. They were written by a guy who spent his adult life researching the subject, collecting the guns, and writing about them. Unfortunately Michael died three months ago and there probably won't be anymore volumes. The guy who is handling the dispersal of Michael's estate is selling the remaining copies of the books on eBay. (Do a word search for the title.) Great bedside reading, and an inspiration to those of us who enjoy studying, collecting, and re-creating that genre of rifles.

These two books are a good insight into the older gunsmiths.

gmsharps

[gnoahhh]

"Chicken Pickle" (My dad's nick name for Mr. Hensdill) said that as far as he knew, Phil Sharpe was suffering from cancer and didn't have a good prognosis. Whether that got him, or the heart attack for which he was admitted to the hospital that last time, or he "helped things along himself" is lost to the sands of time. You know how rumors and misinformation flourished in quaint rural settings 'back in the day'. I have nothing to go on other than that, and to dwell on salacious rumors about his personal life that can't be confirmed 50+ years later is not a fitting tribute for any man. He was somewhere in his late 50's- 57, 58?- when he died.

One other impression I came away with that day (mind you I was only 6 years old) was his loud voice coming from such a small man. I realize now he was probably rather deaf from a lifetime of shooting without ear protection and yelled so as to hear himself.

[johnson1942]

saw a custom made gun from the 40/s. was a 06. maple stock hand carved, and lots of ingraveing on the barrel. perfect shape, looked like it never been shoot. was up in a collection in rolla north dak. also saw one in rapid city s.dak. a while back. made by a local outfit. a used .270 with gold inlays in the barrel. 6000 bucks and it was used some but in good shape. i think the old type stock blanks are still out their. buy a good action and build one your self.

[DeanWinchester]

Heres a few I really like, stolen from the web:

Danzig factory rifle
http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures2009/mau_0663-01.JPG


Paul Jaeger built Polish Mauser
http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures2009/mau_0731-01.JPG


And here's a .35 Whelen built on a Springfeild that is GORGEOUS! Check out the display case made for it.
http://www.hallowellco.com/american_custom_gunmakers_guild%2018.htm

[Reg]

"Chicken Pickle" (My dad's nick name for Mr. Hensdill) said that as far as he knew, Phil Sharpe was suffering from cancer and didn't have a good prognosis. Whether that got him, or the heart attack for which he was admitted to the hospital that last time, or he "helped things along himself" is lost to the sands of time. You know how rumors and misinformation flourished in quaint rural settings 'back in the day'. I have nothing to go on other than that, and to dwell on salacious rumors about his personal life that can't be confirmed 50+ years later is not a fitting tribute for any man. He was somewhere in his late 50's- 57, 58?- when he died.

One other impression I came away with that day (mind you I was only 6 years old) was his loud voice coming from such a small man. I realize now he was probably rather deaf from a lifetime of shooting without ear protection and yelled so as to hear himself.


Please do not be offended, it was not any rumor or gossip of any possible extra curricular activities where my interest was but rather the small stories, " talking loudly to hear himself ". It gives a better picture of the man. Short stature, etc.
I think many of the older shooters had this problem. I started shooting a .357 back in 63 or so. Hearing protection was just starting to be taken seriously then. Wish I could get rid of this constant ringing in my ears. Hearing aids just make it louder !!
As far as "taking care of business " goes,it is a reality and must be respected. Had a friend go through that a couple of years ago. The first thing that goes through ones mind is OMG Why !!
If you will really think about it after the fact there are just reasons and like I said-- they must be respected.
Do appreciate the little odd bits of info, if any more come to mind please put them in. If you appreciate the older writers like I do then you can understand how it just brings the man a little closer. There is a ton of information out there about Elmer Keith, so much in fact one almost thinks he is still pounding away on the typewriter but writers like Sharpe-- not much.
Reg

[RustyReel]

Dean, Nice rifles you have posted. Probably way outside my price range. Check out these old school sporting rifles. Affordable and will scratch that 358 Winchester itch you have....

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=30733&osCsid=eb9fbae233b5c5d315ddc16dbcb9cd84

No association with the seller, yada, yada, yada......

[salpal48]

Since many of these early sporters were on a custom basis. some people like or dislike the style. but all are tasteful in there own way. I,v posted another That I received from The Sharpe Rifles.
This is a Westphal 9.3x62 mauser on a Birds eye maple stock. Plain no checkering and Gloss finish.
This again is 1/2 octogon 1/2 round with a full top rib. . very light with a stiff recoil. The stock was refinished prior to me. But i left it as is.
Sal

[Reg]

Since many of these early sporters were on a custom basis. some people like or dislike the style. but all are tasteful in there own way. I,v posted another That I received from The Sharpe Rifles.
This is a Westphal 9.3x62 mauser on a Birds eye maple stock. Plain no checkering and Gloss finish.
This again is 1/2 octogon 1/2 round with a full top rib. . very light with a stiff recoil. The stock was refinished prior to me. But i left it as is.
Sal


That stock, at least in design, is a Herters Roll Over Cheekpiece. The gripcap design is what we we were told was a "pavement breaker " !!!
Nothing wrong with it really, just what was popular back then.

[gnoahhh]

No offense taken, Reg! By all accounts Sharpe was liked well enough in his community. Pop's friend remarked a few times how the constant sound of gunfire coming from Sharpe's place grew a little tedious after a while. Mind you, I'm dredging up memories from my childhood and remembering stories related by Mr. Hensdill, who died 40 years ago- not the stuff of accurate reporting. We lived fairly close by, but yet far enough away that Pop didn't feel like going over there much.


Mr. Hensdill did have a Shultz&Larsen 7x61 he supposedly bought in Phil's kitchen. He said he had a pile of the rifles for sale and he picked the one with the blondest stock. It was a tack driver. When Hensdill died I was a dirt poor college student and couldn't afford the rifle. I tried to talk Pop into buying it, but he was poor too from paying college tuition!

I sometimes wonder what will happen to my "Sharpe memorabilia ammo" when I'm gone. I guess it'll end up at a yard sale or in a pawn shop somewhere and it'll eventually get blasted away at milk jugs out of some one's 760 pump. (Heck, I shot up a picnic basket full of Sharpe's '06 ammo out in the cornfield with my first '03 Springfield 45 years ago, so I guess i don't have room to talk!)

[Love Life]

Beautiful rifles. I really enjoy the "Old School" rifles from yesteryear. They just have a certain class about them. Actually I enjoy any well built rifle.

[salpal48]

I very much enjoyed all the Photo's other member have posted .But all the older sporters were used as Tools for Hunting , target Or Research. many of those i Received were not as " Beautiful.". They were functional. Enclosed is another that I posted .
this is a M 1917 enfield by Winchester barrel dated 1918 . . Rechambered in 30 Newton . with a simple cut down military stock. and a lyman sight. The sticker on the stock reads " Philip B. Sharpe Research Laboratory". strictly generic and used as tool for research

[Love Life]

It has it's own beauty.

[FrankG]

Heres a 'cigarette' rifle I used to have .It was 8mm and a skinny light weight.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/Msr%20Sptr/msr001.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/Msr%20Sptr/msr001.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/Msr%20Sptr/msr002.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/Msr%20Sptr/msr002.jpg.html)

[DeanWinchester]

I like the lines on that stock.

[skeettx]

One other fun gun I have is a P14 Enfield in 45-70
What fun, what fun
Mike

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/002-20_zps51190dbd.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/002-20_zps51190dbd.jpg.html)
This is one I built around a Model 71 Mauser single shot action and furniture.It is now a 45.70 Black powder rifle.The Barrel was from an old smooth bored .410 Sharps repro.Using my whitworth Rifle barrel as a guide I rifled the Barrel with 6 grooves using an own made rifling cutter on a rod that had hard lead cast in the end that turned in the Whitworth barrel.I then made a 45.70 Chamber Reamer.The Stock is from an old Austrian .22 Rifle that had long since died. The Sights are own made.The Forend Cap and Grip Cap are Rams Horn.I reamed out the Barrel to .450 using an own made Square Reamer made from a piece of square file softened filed smooth one corner sharp the other three corners slightly rounded,Welded to a rod with a Tee Handle then hardened.I made a hardwood Spill and packed it out with paper strips until the right amount of resistence then added strips as I progressed.The 35 thousandths where taken out with a 17 thou cut.After rifling I Lead Lapped the barrel using Grinding paste.

[skeettx]

WEEE WOOOO !!
Well done, awesome post, neat gun
Mike

[kootne]

I got a Husky 46 from Simpsons Ltd. that I really like. They have several still available and it seems like more dribble in every month or 2. Caliber is 9.3x57 and brass, dies, & bullets are still made. For 325-350 bucks I think they are a bargain. You can't build a rifle for that kind of money and these are commercial (albiet '96) actions, european walnut stocks, and mine only weighs 6-3/4 lbs. Most of them have been messed with in one way or another but some are not. Made I think from 1929 to 1939.
kootne

[Uncle Grinch]

Here are a couple of my old sporters.

[roverboy]

Nice rifles everybody. I've got some sporters but, nothing really nice.

[StrawHat]

Sometimes custom rifles are just slightly altered from the original factory rifle.

This started out as a Springfield Model 1922 in 22 LR. Somewhere along the way it was converted to CF and rechambered for the then new 22 Hornet cartridge. (Since the photo, I have found a complete Lyman 48C rear sight.)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Springfield%201922/SpringfieldM1922001_zpsc50a8aa3.jpg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/StrawHat/media/Springfield%201922/SpringfieldM1922001_zpsc50a8aa3.jpg.html)

Here is another converted factory rifle. This was a Winchester 1895 rifle, built in 1900, and chambered in 30 Gov't. The bore was ruined so I had a new barrel installed and the rifle reworked to handle the 405 WCF. (This was before they reintroduced the Winchester 1895.)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/ScoutRifleandRevolver003.jpg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/StrawHat/media/ScoutRifleandRevolver003.jpg.html)

Both of the rifles pictured resemble nothing more than a factory rifle but have had a lot of work put into them to produce something the owner specifically wanted.

I have a couple of revolvers like that also.

[Reg]

There are many facets as to what constitutes a custom rifle either old or new-- all to be appreciated.
Here is a Martini in .44 Mag. built up from a junk collection of parts, a Marlin take off barrel in .444 put together in a piece of cherry.
To me , what makes it stand out is the Model 70 butt plate, the shaping of the receiver, the fitting of wood and inlays. The forend is a solid piece of burl walnut that would look good in any pipe.
The barrel had to be stubbed to fit the larger extension diameter so at the junction is a piece of nickle silver very tightly fitted followed up with a wedding band.
The idea was to try to create a very old school, very English stalking rifle.
It shoots good too !!

The target shown is from a recent experiment with making 44 cases from 45 ACP

[fouronesix]

Oh my, where to begin!

Like most, I have a weakness for these type rifles whether they be single shot, lever or bolt. If forced to a decision guess I'd have to go with a bolt gun- classic sporter (98) Mauser or Win M70. Current favorites I own include: Commercial FN post WWII sporter in 270 Win, Pre-64 Win 70s in 270 and 30-06.

I recently had the opportunity to fondle and shoot a Pre-64 Win 70 in 375 HH. Nothing special about the gun other than its history- beat around the African bush by 2 generations of PHs and still going strong except having to be re-stocked years ago due to the sometimes brutal treatment these guns endure. The rifle could write a book!