Undersize Lee mold (.490)

[dikman]

A couple of months ago I bought a Lee 2-cavity .490 round ball mold. I've cast a couple of hundred balls and they came out fine. Today I decided, out of curiosity, to check them with a micrometer.

They vary in size from .478 to .484, and are out-of-round! I could not find one that was .490. I then checked balls cast from my other Lee molds - .440, .445, .451 and .457. All are within +/- .003 of the stated size.

Most peculiar. I've emailed Lee and am curious to see what they have to say (particularly as I'm in Australia, where it will cost more than the mold is worth to ship it back to them!).

[swamp]

I have had very good results with Lee customer service. It will be interesting to see what happens, since you are down under. I would guess they would just send a replacement mould.
swamp

[dikman]

This is the reply I received from Lee -
"I would recommend increasing temperature and smoking the mold. If that does not work, return to place of purchase for credit or replacement."

I'm not sure how that is going to fix the issue :confused:

As for returning it, I bought it from Track of the Wolf, and while I'm quite sure that they would happily replace it the shipping cost both ways makes it out of the question!

It would seem that support by Lee of their product for overseas customers, is, unfortunately, different. Guess I'm stuck with a dud mold, and I'm now a bit concerned about the .495 that is on the way.

A few minutes ago I received the following after replying to their email -
"We treat foreign and domestic claims the same. The product either needs to be return to place of purchase or returned to the factory for repair or replacement."

This seems to be at odds with members who have had faulty items replaced ex-factory, merely by complaining to them. Oh well, at least I know what to expect if I have problems with Lee products in future.

[a.squibload]

Might be a good candidate for "Leementing" (or "Lee-menting"), search for both.
Basically hog it out with valve compound or polishing paste, etc.
Drill a cast ball/boolit, screw in a bolt (pointy screws might screw through the boolit
and hurt the mold), smear the paste on it, rotate in the mold with a screwdriver,
drill, etc. Slow is OK.
I've done a couple of Lees and a steel RCBS mold, pretty easy and good results.
Might even make the out-of-round ones rounder.

Can't order diameter from Lee, just general cartridge info. I figure you get the mold
and adjust it to your needs. Just glad I never got one that was too big, it's hard to
make 'em smaller. Like cutting a board longer...

[dikman]

Like cutting a board longer...

[smilie=l:

I'll give the idea of modding it some thought. The greatest danger that I can see is accidentally widening the sprue hole.

What this really means, though, is that the idea that Lee will simply send you out a replacement for a broken/damaged/faulty item no longer applies - you must return the item first. The customer service that apparently once existed is no more (it has changed).

Lee obviously don't mind me having a mold with a manufacturing defect, which is fine as now I'll be able to use it as a shining example of Lee quality control :smile:.

[Wayne Smith]

When you LeeMent a mold you do not doit through the sprue hole. Open the sprue plate and drill a start hole in the middle of the boolit. Start a screw in this and apply clover or other grinding paste to the boolit. Close the mold over the boolit and turn it until it turns cleanly. Clean out the mold and cast another. Measure it. If it is not big enough do the same with this boolit, continuing until you have the measurements you want.

[dmize]

With all due respect....LeeMenting or whatever to a NEW mold is B.S. in the highest order.
I have 13 Lee molds that throw perfect bullets.
However I have/had 3 molds that didn't... 2 325 grain 475's that the best throws 471 and 2 of the much praised 44-310's,1 that threw 426's and the one that Midway replaced it with that drops 428's......
I am officially done with Lee molds.

[a.squibload]

Agree, BUT that's why they run about 20 bucks.
I took a chance one time on a used Lyman mold for $35 (if I remember correctly), had to fix it.
Lee would probably have a lot more customers if they would pay more attention to quality,
even if that meant a little higher purchase price.

[Wayne Smith]

Since he's in Australia he doesn't have many choices other than to modify what he has.

[dikman]

Yeah, you got that right, Wayne. That's why most BP shooters buy their stuff from the US.
Dmize, you may think it's BS, but if I don't try it then the only alternative is to ditch the mold. Lee couldn't care less that they have made a mold with a manufacturing fault (interestingly, on another forum a member had exactly the same problem with his .490 mold, which Lee replaced). It has demonstrated to me the level of concern that Lee has for its products (and some customers?).

Wayne, you said that you don't do it through the sprue hole? I'm a bit confused by that.

[Wayne Smith]

There is a sticky here somewhere with pictures. Pour a boolit, cut the sprue, and while the sprue plate is open drill the center of the boolit. You will have to take the boolit out of the mold to put on the grinding compound so you can install the screw while in the mold or out of it.

[mold maker]

The difference is, the mold he has is a 490 round ball. It does in effect have the sprue hole as part of the shape of the mould cavity. This as opposed to a regular based boolit.

[gwpercle]

If you can, order from Midway...they pay for the shipping both ways. At least they have for the three different items I have sent back in the past few years. I assumed I would pay for mailing it back to them but each time I got a credit on my account for more than the actual return shipping and they charged me no shipping on the exchange they sent me. Each item was different, but I ordered all of them from Midway and I returned them to Midway...not the manufacturer. Call track of the wolf...they might have a similar policy...good for business to keep customers happy. Worth a try.
Gary

[dikman]

Mold Maker has pointed out the one flaw in the process that I realised as I thought about it. A cylindrical casting will rotate around its vertical axis, but the round ball can move "off-centre", if you like. Using a hard screw thread means it's highly likely that the area around the sprue hole will become enlarged if extreme care isn't used.

But I'm still considering it.

As for Midway, I'd be very surprised if they would cover shipping costs for faulty goods to overseas customers. I have no issue with Track, as they had no way of knowing that the mold was faulty. It's a Lee factory problem, as far as I'm concerned, and their acceptance of responsibility for their products appears to be, shall we say, somewhat limited. (Perhaps they should remove the word "precision" from their name?).

The annoying thing is that I don't need the handles or sprue plate (which probably cost more than the mold blocks), all I need are replacement mold blocks.

[dmize]

I STILL think it is B.S!!!!!!!
I am an Ford Senior Master Tech.
Customer that comes in doesm't care what mood I am in or if I am feeling bad. They pay X$ and expect the best.
If you are offering a mold that is supposed to throw a .475,.430 or something as simple as a .490 round ball it should by God drop THAT size projectile..PERIOD!!

[dikman]

If you are offering a mold that is supposed to throw a .475,.430 or something as simple as a .490 round ball it should by God drop THAT size projectile..PERIOD!!

I agree entirely, dmize. In a perfect world if it's faulty then it should be replaced - no ifs, buts or maybes. Lee will replace it, but they must know that being overseas puts me at a big disadvantage regarding the economics of me actually doing anything. My correspondence with them has shown a complete lack of concern on their part about the quality of their products, or what their customers may think of them.

Interestingly, I have bought many items from China/Hong Kong, and on the odd occasion when I've had a problem they simply send out a replacement (whatever it may be) at no cost to me, nor have they required the faulty bit be returned. My brother has found the same thing. They take customer satisfaction seriously.

Today I managed to fit a mandrel, from my Dremel stuff, into one of the balls and using some water-based automotive cutting compound carefully twisted it around (by hand) in the cavity. I could really feel the out-of-round part, as at one point in the rotation it actually forced the mold halves apart. Unfortunately, I'm going to need some far more aggressive abrasive as all this did was polish it!

[dikman]

I was having problems trying to sort out this mold and have decided it can't be done without more precise equipment than I have. While the "Leementing" process doubtless works great for fine polishing of the cavities on cylindrical boolits, trying to fix an out-of-round roundball mold, using this process, isn't working. Unless both the mold and the spinning ball being used to polish the cavity can be clamped firmly so that there is no lateral movement it won't work. All I've succeeded in doing is enlarging it fractionally (I think, won't know until I can cast a ball) while also retaining the out-of-round feature!

People on the forum have complained about "cheap" Chinese goods, with poor quality control, and held up Lee as a shining example of American products. Well sorry, but I've found better quality control in those Chinese goods. Selling slightly undersized molds is one thing (I can cope with that) but out-of-round, to the extent mine is, is indicative of very sloppy QC.

[dikman]

I recently placed an order with Titan Reloading for a heap of reloading stuff, so it seemed an opportune time to order another .490 mold as it only added a couple of $ to the overall shipping cost. (After not receiving any response from my letter to John Lee, I've come to the conclusion that a) they're very inconsistent with their customer support policy, b) they're selective in who they decide to help and c) John Lee couldn't care two hoots about his customers, unlike his father).

So, with some trepidation I cast a few balls with the new mold. After letting them cool, I started measuring. First reading was .485 - urk, not good - so I moved around the circumference, .485 - .487. A bit undersize, but at least it's not out-of-round. Tried a few more and found that some agreed with the first readings while others were up to .488. It appears that the two cavities are fractionally different. Still, under-size I can work with.

It was a relief, because I'll admit that I wasn't too confidant to start with.

[Maven]

dikman, I own RB molds from different manufacturers, e.g. Lee, Lachmiller (pre-RCBS), Lyman, RCBS, Tanner, and Thompson/Center and have rarely found one that drops the stated diameter using pure Pb @ 800 deg. F. Moreover, the .490" RB molds (2 Lymans, 1 RCBS, 2 T/C's) actually drop balls with diameters ranging from .488" to .492": All are accurate in my Lyman Great Plains Rifle (1:60 twist). The trick is adjusting the patch thickness to accommodate the ball's diameter and the bbl's. dimension.

[dikman]

Thanks Maven. I know that Lee deliberately make their RB's slightly undersize, but all my other Lee molds are very close to stated size. Guess I was lucky with them? :). As I said, under-size I can work with, it's the out-of-round bit that was unacceptable in the other mold.

[fouronesix]

dikman,
Being half way around the globe doesn't help.

I only have a few Lee molds. My go-to molds are RCBS, Lyman, Ideal and Mountain Molds. I too have a Lee RB mold that casts off-set halves. I'm sure it's that way because the alignment pins were swaged in-place incorrectly. Even living here where I could pitch a fit directly to Lee, to me it's simply not worth the effort, time or frustration for a $20 mold. Sometimes with Lee QC and their molds, instead of Lee-menting, could just say lamenting the purchase.

[dikman]

could just say lamenting the purchase.
:lol:

In one of my emails to them I was told that ALL customers, regardless of location, are treated the same.

Not quite true, in my experience.

[Longone]

Hello dikman,

I very recently purchased a .490" Lee DC RB mold and experienced the same "undersized" casting as you. Lee advised me to crank up the heat to at least 800*, I ran the pot a little over that to 830* and I must say that the balls are now fully filled out and DO measure .490" and are very round. If you have not turned up the heat I would give it a go, you may be surprised.

Good luck.

Longone

[rmark]

800F degrees is my normal temperature for casting soft lead minies and roundballs.

[melloairman]

A old timer told me about peening molds to enlarge them and it works for me .Marvin
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?254560-Boolits-R-2-Small