Lack of gun store knowledge

[Master_Mechanic]

Today I went to my local gun store and had my eye on a new smith and wesson model 17, gun looked good until I got to looking at the crown of the muzzle, it had a pretty decent dent in it, I asked the guy what happned there to which he replied the he wasn't sure and asked one of the other workers, the other worker came over took a look at the mark said "its just a manufatures defect, won't effect anything" they were still asking full retail price for the gun. I walked out,its a shame at the lack of care and knowledge in society today. Should I cut my losses or go back and try to explain the damage and see if we can come to an agreeable price?

[Czech_too]

Sounds like some serious apathy on their part. If you go back and 'try' to explain the defect you had better have some written proof as to what this defect will cause the user.

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmm . . . "manufacturers defect"???? If it was new, then why didn't the return it to S & W? Unfortunately, a lot of LGSs have "Laurel & Hardy" working there. I once went in to a LGS that I go to quite frequently for reloading supplies and I've purchased probably a half dozen firearms from. I asked one of the clerks if they had a H & R Handi Rifle chambered in .357 in stock and if not, how long would it take to get one? The clerk asked another clerk, who then came over and joined the first one . . . and he proceeded to tell me that H & R doesn't make a Handi in .357. Oh, really? I told them to go look at their catalog . . . he did a quick look and came back with the same answer. On the way out, the owner recognized me and asked if I found what I needed. I replied that I had found a number of things I "needed" but that I really wasn't in the market to pick up the two "idiots" he had in back. I explained what I was looking for . . . he apologized and I told him to forget it . . . that I was sure I could find one at one of the big box stores. Next time I went in, the two clowns no longer worked there.

Unfortunately, many are there for the "pay check". They don't realize that when a customer is dis-satisfied and ends up walking out . . . in your case . . . due to ignorance or laziness on their part . . . that their paycheck is also "walking out the door".

[hendere]

To be honest, I don't remember a time when the guys at the local shop knew what they were talking about. There have been exceptions, but not many.

[dtknowles]

While I think I know a lot about firearms and ammunition, I don't think I would be competent to work at any of the local gun shops. They mostly sell, AR's, AK's, and the latest generation of pistols and I know very little about them. One of the main reasons I don't own any of the listed firearm types is there are so many manufactures with so many models with a large range of prices, I don't have a clue if I would be happy with a purchase and I doubt I would get good advice from the shop.

Tim

[Oregon Coot]

It would be difficult to find an environment so packed with willful ignorance on so many levels as that found in your average gun store.

[30calflash]

I worked at a small store about 20 years ago. Other part time workers were clueless in general and many new firearms that had been there a while looked used. Shopworn, dents and dings common.
After their shift you would find new handguns stacked on top of each other because they didn't put them in the proper place/configuration.

[Love Life]

I don't find the guys in my local gunshops to be dumb. In fact, I believe they know much more than they let on. Good prices on guns though, and I much prefer the man behind the counter to stay quiet while I look. I'm a bonafide genius and do not want their input unless it's for a price break. It sounds rude, but it really is a very good system for me and the gun store owner. I do my due diligence so when I walk in I know what I'm looking for, price range, etc. Sho' am good!!!

[winchester85]

if i worked at a gun store, i would familiarize myself with everything in stock. when times were not busy, i would keep up on all the latest and greatest stuff, and try to become even more of a gun nerd.

[Ed K]

I'm a bonafide genius and do not want their input unless it's for a price break. That line made me chuckle!

Really though, this Cast Boolits forum is made up of physicists, chemists, engineers, toolmakers, not to mention a lot of good guys with a healthy helping of common sense and life experience together with whatever their profession may be. Why would we ever really expect store clerks who on average make no more money than a department store clerk or fast food pusher be firearms experts? I doubt most on this board would consider working for gun store clerk pay (excepting retirees, those independently wealthy, etc.) I sure could not afford to - even if it might be fun.

[flyingmonkey35]

The guys at my local shop that I buy my supplies will NOT talk to you unless you are there to buy a FIREARM. ask them where something is in there store gun related and they just point over there on the floor somewhere. and go back to jaw jack-en with the other guys.

Asked for a box of 22lr the other day, he pulls out 2 boxes of 50 like he was a King bestowing a gift upon a peasant and asks double what there worth. I told the store manger i would pay MSRP only for 22 and he just looks at me and shrugs.



Really Pisses me off.

i only go there because its convenient and they have the powder and primers i want. other then that i do all my shopping online. and will NEVER buy a gun from them. EVER!

Beware the 1911 / Glock only clerk / all other guns are Sh$t. they got them their as well.

[WallyM3]

I just make sure I take LL with me when I am looking.

[Love Life]

I got you covered. Why, just today I wandered into my local gun shop to see into selling a gun because I really haven't played with it in about 3 years. The man behind the counter looks on Gunbroker for about 2 minutes and then lowballs me. I pulled out of my back pocket, the printed completed auctions he had just looked at. My how a little prior preparation turns the table!! I still got rid of the gun, but I got a lot more than the dude originally offered.

Which brings me to another rant. Gunstore offers on firearms. I understand the store needs to make a buck, but in my experiences spanning several states, the standard offer is 25%-40% the actual worth of the firearm. Why? That just rubs me wrong. That may work on a person who has to sell their firearms for crack money, but not me.

[WallyM3]

Knew I could count on you.

And that old 33% worked with sellers in distress before the internet sites sold guns, but the tradition seems to have outlived the logic.

[Battis]

Lack of antique gun knowledge at a LGS has worked out well for me. I bought what was being sold as a "pre-Italian" Whitney.36 percussion revolver, at a really good price. Now, I knew that the only people making "pre-Italian" Whitneys was Whitney. I got a super good deal.

[JSnover]

I got you covered. Why, just today I wandered into my local gun shop to see into selling a gun because I really haven't played with it in about 3 years. The man behind the counter looks on Gunbroker for about 2 minutes and then lowballs me.

That's what he's supposed to do: Buy low and sell high. In the end you both agreed on a reasonable price. What was the problem?

[sandman228]

The guys at my local shop that I buy my supplies will NOT talk to you unless you are there to buy a FIREARM. ask them where something is in there store gun related and they just point over there on the floor somewhere. and go back to jaw jack-en with the other guys.

Asked for a box of 22lr the other day, he pulls out 2 boxes of 50 like he was a King bestowing a gift upon a peasant and asks double what there worth. I told the store manger i would pay MSRP only for 22 and he just looks at me and shrugs.



Really Pisses me off.

i only go there because its convenient and they have the powder and primers i want. other then that i do all my shopping online. and will NEVER buy a gun from them. EVER!

Beware the 1911 / Glock only clerk / all other guns are Sh$t. they got them their as well.
that's what really pisses me off I want what I want I research before I buy and don't buy on impulse anymore .ive dealt with my share of gun shop a$$holes and gun snobs if I'm there to buy a smith or a ruger don't run it into the ground and try to sell me a glock . ive never owned a glock ive never shot a glock I handled a model 27 1 time and didn't care for it . to each there own im not trying to dump all over anything that someone else likes but there not for me . ive got 5 tickets for a gun raffle at a local club where I shoot 1st place is a glock 9mm I tell people if I win it im gonna hang it up on the target holder and shoot at it with 1 of my smith & wessons or rugers just to piss them off . im not that arrogant I wont really do it if by some chance I win i'll take the cash instead or maybe if the wife likes it i'll give it to her for her purse gun . but it gets people rowed up when I tell them that

[clownbear69]

im really glad I walked into this thread. I plan on opening my own shop in town and besides it being a minor dream its also a kind of necessity here due to outrageous prices and crappy service. So im glad im reading these stories because when I do open my shop and if any worker treated anybody this poor they would be out the door.

Nonetheless OP im surprised that when they saw it they didn't immediately send it back. When I worked at Cabela's and Academy if we saw it we would send it back (Academy had more paperwork per Corporate). If you should cut your loses, maybe but I would speak to the owner first and go from there.

[Bonz]

Been buying all my new guns online for a while now, just refused to get 'hammered' by the LGS's. The internet is a great tool to find bargains quickly. http://www.slickguns.com finds the bargain's and normally does the price comparison between multiple resellers.

[Love Life]

That's what he's supposed to do: Buy low and sell high. In the end you both agreed on a reasonable price. What was the problem?

Hold the phone!!! I thought buying low and selling high made a person into an evil...a horrible...a revolting...GOUGER GUY!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES AND HIDE THE CHILDREN!!

The problem is that it is insulting to me when they give their old song and dance "Well I seen one listed for $0.25 and the seller couldn't move it." when I look at all the same things before I go in and I know they are lying through their teeth. dishonesty like that to rook the susceptible is very distasteful.

Most gun stores have just become transfer stations for my guns because I can buy cheaper on-line (even with shipping and FFL added in).

[brtelec]

I worked part time and full time in gun shops for a number of years in the 80's and 90's. We tended to hire people that were enthusiasts and not just someone looking for a job. Most of us had our area of expertise, but no one was a genius. We relied on each other to cover the gamut of gun knowledge and we had a couple of nice gun shops to hang out in. As to the offers being tossed out at the dealer, well that is just called business. We used the blue book and we offered a pat .40 cents on the dollar. That is just how it is. The customer always has the right to say no. Taking a firearm to the LGS to sell is like taking a car to the dealer to sell. Terrible idea! They are not trying to insult you, they are trying to keep the lights on. Many times if the customer refused our offer on something nice we would then try to facilitate a line of communication with another customer or friend that may be looking for what they are selling.

If you think the firearms business has a monopoly on ******s behind the counter, and they do seem to have an overabundance, go into most scuba shops and see what you find. There are some great shops out there, but the firearm and scuba business seem to attract them like moths to a flame.

[Master_Mechanic]

I don't want to cut my losses, I like te gun but I will not pay full price for a damaged item. The other problem is the fact that here in canada guns aren't the easiest to come by. I may take a trip in and see if another employee there is willing to listen.

[DLCTEX]

My last new gun purchase at our lgs was a pleasant surprise. The young lady behind the counter was very knowledgeable about the M&P Shield I was buying for my wife and was most pleasant to deal with. Her being a teen ager it really surprised me how much she knew about the gun and a couple more I looked at. I will ask for her in doing any future purchase. I made it a point to tell her boss of my satisfaction.

[wallenba]

Seller does not care about his customer base. Blaming it on S&W?!! I doubt very seriously it would have made it past their quality control and out the door. He's just too cheap to take care of it.

[hendere]

I mentioned earlier that I haven't run into a ton of knowledgable folks working in the local shops, but I should probably be fair. I'm not a certified genius. I've been reloading, shooting, and collecting for about 30 years. I know a lot about some things and nothing at all about many other things. I don't expect the average retail employee to be an expert on everything and even though I don't approve, it doesn't surprise me these days for someone to try and bs me to save themselves a little extra work. This is true most anywhere, not just gun stores.

All that being said, I shoot weekly at a very large range and gun store. It's unbelievable the amount of garbage and wrong info I hear from "expert" customers almost every time I go. And the holes in everything except the targets in the range don't make me think much different. Even if you started out being knowledgable and friendly as an employee, I bet it's pretty hard to stay that way.

[fatelk]

The best shop I found for knowledgable helpful staff is a small, one-man shop near where I used to live. He knew a lot about what he sold and tried his best to take care of customers, but then again he alone is responsible for the success of his business.

A former neighbor of mine didn't like him though. We were hanging out at another neighbors garage one evening and he starts telling us how that greedy sob so-and-so at the gun shop tried to rip him off. Seems he took in his SIG pistol to try to sell, and he only offered him x$ (I forget).

I tried telling him that since that was actually at least 75% of fair retail, it was actually pretty good for a gun shop offer. The guy does have to make a living.

[dragon813gt]

They are hourly employees. And like hourly employees at any store. The best they can do is point me in the direction if I ask where an item located. I need them to hand me the firearm and go get the manager/owner so we can discuss price. May sound harsh but I do all my research before I go to the store. I don't go there to chat or make friends. I go there to exchange money for a piece of functional steel/art. If you happen to have a great store by you then more power to you. Every one by me is full of rude people, not just behind the counter, that only want to discuss what they like. Which is what makes them horrible salesman. I do feel sorry for people that are new to this hobby and are relying on the counter people for help. I've heard them steer so many people in the wrong direction over the years. But it's not my place to correct them in their place of business.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm lucky in the sense that all the shops near me are family owned and the employees are fairly knowledgeable. They all will deal fairly with you and not treat you like an idiot or try to rip you off. I can't stand the places that advertise low prices and then try to insert back door fees. One large shop in Lexington charges a $10.00 fee if you buy a gun from them online but opt to pick it up in person, even if the gun is on their rack in the show room. They've also started making people pay $20.00 annually for the privilege of being allowed to buy high demand items at regular prices, not even a discount program.

[hendere]

" They've also started making people pay $20.00 annually for the privilege of being allowed to buy high demand items at regular prices, not even a discount program."

Wow, that's a new one on me.

[Petrol & Powder]

Gun stores are not in business to sell guns. They are in business to make money.

Now, before everyone gets their panties in a wad.....that doesn't mean they have to be ignorant about their products or even crooked; it just means they need to make a profit to survive.

They can be fair or crooked ..... and make a profit.
They can be knowledgeable about their products, or not.......and make a profit.
They can sell a few guns at a high margin or a lot of guns at a low margin......and make a profit.

It is up to the consumer to decide how to spend his or her money.
Caveat Emptor

[mrk_86]

I love when I'm looking and the clerks answer to all my questions is "well this glock has that and this which is better" or I ask for a gun and they say never heard of it.. why I go to a small time old guys local store and usually pay more but guy remembers my name and always see knowledgeable

[Geraldo]

I worked in a shop for a few years, and let me tell you, it goes both ways. In terms of sheer numbers, idiot customers outnumber idiot salesmen 10,000:1. Customers walk in with loaded guns pointing them at you, guns that need to be "fixed" but really just need cleaned, and guns they blew up with reloads. Then there are the customers who have to tell you all about the gun they saw in the latest action movie or read about in a magazine. Customers frequently wanted to pay less for the gun than we did from the distributor.

I was straight up. If I didn't know, I'd say so. If I thought they were dangerous, I'd tell them so. If they wanted to lowball or wanted me to match a price from a box store (which was impossible for us), I'd explain the margin to them but ask if the box store would mount and bore sight the scope for free or throw in a box of ammo.

In my experience, stores (of any kind) with the most knowledgeable employees have all been privately owned, one store operations.

[Ed K]

I worked in a shop for a few years, and let me tell you, it goes both ways.

I'll vouch for that. I was in my LGS a couple of years back browsing the used inventory. A clerk came over and asked to help. I thanked him and said I would speak up when something caught my eye. Just then another person stepped up beside me and the clerk then offered to assist them. The person replied "I need a gun and I need it now." The clerk followed up with a question concerning type to which the person then replied: "I don't care." Appropriately that individual was asked to leave the store.

[paul s]

I got you covered. Why, just today I wandered into my local gun shop to see into selling a gun because I really haven't played with it in about 3 years. The man behind the counter looks on Gunbroker for about 2 minutes and then lowballs me. I pulled out of my back pocket, the printed completed auctions he had just looked at. My how a little prior preparation turns the table!! I still got rid of the gun, but I got a lot more than the dude originally offered.

Which brings me to another rant. Gunstore offers on firearms. I understand the store needs to make a buck, but in my experiences spanning several states, the standard offer is 25%-40% the actual worth of the firearm. Why? That just rubs me wrong. That may work on a person who has to sell their firearms for crack money, but not me.

cause he's the only buyer in the room and his offer is the only offer?

[paul s]

I agree, if you work in a gun shop long you will start thinking that those gun control people have a good point!

[dragon813gt]

cause he's the only buyer in the room and his offer is the only offer?

That's why you follow that person out and make a good offer in the parking lot. It's not polite to do it in the store. I tend to agree that they off way to little when it comes to purchasing a firearm. I realize they are in it to make money and it's not my place to say they are wrong. But a 75% profit seems a bit high.

[Love Life]

cause he's the only buyer in the room and his offer is the only offer?

I sho' do like using them for FFL transfers for guns I bought elsewhere.

[DeanWinchester]

It's sad here in Tn that I don't have a gunshop nearby with people working there that know more than me. That is sad because I'm pretty dang stupid. So if they're dumber than me, ohh it's a recipe for 'tard soup.

Any gunshop I go in gets a "no thank you, I'm fine" is as polite a voice as I can muster. I already done me homework before I went or I'm looking for the random jewel. Neither of which require the armchair experts.

I made the mistake of getting into a discussion about cast center fire rifle once at a gunshop the prides itself on reloading supplies. Never again.

[snowwolfe]

It must be frustrating for owners and employees of gun shops to answer 100's of questions every day only to see the customer walk out and most likely order the same firearm on gunbrokers and then have it delivered to his local guy who runs an FFL out of his house and only charges $10-25 per transfer. Or they listen to complaints about the price of 22 ammo or powder all day when in fact they can only get 10% of what they used to and have to charge more just to make up for losing volume. Not making excuses for them but I can see how it goes both ways.

[DeanWinchester]

I can see that too but to perpetuate some of the nonsense and then argue against (basically calling me a liar ) something....nah. There's never an excuse for that. There's no excuse for it, but i was adamantly told and argued with until I gave up, that cast boolits cannot be safely, accurately and without leading up the barrel after a few shots fired over 1500-1600 fps.
Well, all of us here are OBVIOUSLY doing it wrong ain't we?

[FergusonTO35]

I see a couple of advantages that the local guy has that most online places don't. You can examine in person before you make a decision. If you have a problem with the item the local guy will exchange it, send it back for repair, or maybe even give you a refund. You can also get to know the people at the shop and decide whether they are the kind of people you want to deal with. One time I was perusing the site of a well known dealer down in Florida. On one part of their site they announced that everybody there had just gotten back from a porn industry convention. I couldn't make that up if I tried, if they hadn't chosen to boast about it on their website I never would have known that.

[beezapilot]

My LGS has just over 5000 used guns in stock and about 700 new, they sure ain't cheap- maybe that is why they still have so many- but I'll grant the guys behind the counter a gold star-- they know quite a lot. You want to look at the Sauer Drilling, they'll tell you all about it. SOme of their stuff is so old and weird it is better than a museum visit.

[sandman228]

allot of this reminds me of a local shop in the central pa area that used to be . they had a big inventory allot of people working there and fairly decent prices it started out good I bought some guns there ,I bought reloading supplies there so on so on . then after a while it got to there heads, yes I was a fairly regular in there and bought a fair amount from them but I wasn't 1 of the people that went in weekly and threw a fist full of money around . but I did buy at least 6 or7 guns from them in a couple years some I paid, for some layaway some a couple on plastic. after a while it got to where I would go in to pay on a lay away stand there 20 min with money in my hand and sometimes have there workers walk right past me to wait on a buddy of his (and this worker was a local police officer) I grabbed my money stormed out the door other workers tried to stop me I told them forget it . or I had another incident where I wanted to look at a Taurus 24/7 pro 45 acp and the worker wouldn't even get it from this display case instead he pulls out a springfield emp yes it was a very nice gun but if I spend over 1100 on a pistol I think my wife would make me sleep with it in my pickup. there were other things too like standing at the counter with an armload of reloading supplies and lazy workers who wouldn't get off there dumpy a$$ to ring u up. well I made up my mind 1 day enough is enough I stopped shopping there and started to buy from another local shop , a bit higher priced but sells me what I want don't make me stand there like an a$$ waiting to be waited on yes hes a bit arogent but him and I get along fine he cracks wise and I tell him shut the hell up you old pr-ck he laughs, I laugh were fine . in the mean time the 1st shop I was talking about moved into a much larger bldg. then got into trouble over 1 of there employees doing illeagal acts so much so it shut them down .I made sure to shop at there going out of business sale and scooped up some powder at 70% off wich im still using some of today . they have since reopened but from what I understand most of there big spenders have moved on and are now struggeling to keep there doors open to the point there moving in with another business . so what goes around comes around. I would also like to ad im not trashing every single employee they had there were 4 or so that were very good and polite and took care of the customers the best they could but for every 1 good employee there were 2 bad ones .

[WallyM3]

I think retail, generally, has gone to he!!.

The floor personnel have reversed the roles. It used to be the store employee's job to tolerate the customer, not the other way around.

How many times I've smiled when I've wanted to bite!

[bmortell]

i once asked for a box of 30 caliber fmj projectiles, and the employee said hmmm uhhhmmm i think this is the closest thing we have, while handing me a box of hornady amax's. that was until i found out the passcode to go behind the counter. all you need to say is i have a list of stuff i need to find back there and they'l send you back faster than you can ask.