Sharps 1863

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

Nobade has a good thread going on Sharps paper cartridges, but I don’t want to hijack his thread. I have several questions, and so decided to start another, parallel thread. These guns have interested me for a long time, and I may be about ready to take the plunge.

First, it appears that Shiloh is no longer cataloging 1859 & 1863 Sharps rifles. Does anyone know if this is so, and if not, can you help me find them on the Shiloh Sharps web page?

What is the difference between the 1859 and 1863 models?

Pedersoli also makes these guns. I’ve seen cheers and jeers for Pedersoli. Are the Pedersoli “paper cutter” Sharps rifles of good quality?

The Pedersoli Sporting Rifle particularly interests me. What are your experiences with the various models?

I like small bore black powder riles (45 caliber) for deer hunting, but everyone seems to prefer the 54 caliber. Do you know why? Is it easier to shoot and clean, or is it just a preference for the big bullet?

I believe these are non-FFL guns. Is that correct?

What else can you tell me about this genre?

Thanks, Tom

[GARD72977]

I think the preference for a 54 is when using round balls. A 500gr 45cal bullet is a monster.

[Hickok]

You don't need an FFL to order a "paper cutter."

The original Sharps 1859 used in the Civil War was a .52 or .54 caliber. These calibers were both one in the same, because in those days, Sharps listed caliber by BORE diameter, which was nominally .52". Nowadays we list caliber by groove diameter, which in these rifles is .54". So the .52 Sharps and the .54 Sharps were really the same caliber, depending whether it was listed by bore diameter or groove diameter.

This caused confusion in the War, as requests from the field for ammo for the Sharp's were made for .54 cal Sharps, and for 52.cal Sharps.

The Sharps Rifle company stated to Federal Arsenals that the ammo for their rifles would be called .52 caliber Sharps, to avoid confusion.

A good history of this can be found in the 4 volume set of books, "From Round Ball to Rimfire."

The Pedersoli Sharps are of great quality, as I own one, a Sharps 1859 Berdan in 52/54 caliber. The one problem that can be encountered with the 1859/1863 Sharps is some gas leakage around the breech block, and hard loading due powder fowling after many rounds. This was common with original Sharps as well.

I sent my Sharps to Charlie Hahn, a Sharps guru of much talent, for his breech block work/conversion, anf my Sharp's now runs like a champ, no gas leak or fowling problems.

The later 1863 Sharps simply did away with the patch box on the stock, and a few other small things to make war time production faster.

[johnson1942]

do you have to use a paper cartridge in those rifles or can you just put the bullet in and the powder behind it? they really sound interesting especially when you mentioned they can be tuned to make them better. im really getting interested.

[Tatume]

These rifles may be used with loose powder, consumable paper cartridges, and reusable metal (often brass) cartridges. There are many ingenious methods of loading them.

[doc1876]

what they said......also the main "visual" difference between a '59, and a '63 is the '59 has a patch box.
I have seen pederosoli in the field, and the guys that have them are happy with them. Most of them are using combustible instead of paper cutting, which is what I do.
If you find an older one, many of them had a 2 stage seal, the ring on the breach which blew forward, and there is a tube in the chamber that blows back. If your gun has this, you might want to take it out to clean it real good. I have had my garret since '84, and never knew it was there, so I guess it ain't coming out!
I have found a Shiloh, and with the risk of irritating many purists, I am pulling the .54 round and installing a .45 octagon barrel, and making it into a JP Gemmer with a beautiful full figured walnut stock.
While I love Sharps, I really love the 59/63s

[doc1876]

I could not find them on Shiloh sight either. You will have to check gunbroker, there is a 59 by armi sport right now, and a nice original that has been refinished. there was a CSA version that sold for $767 on the 29th.
I recommend patience in searching for them, and a good Pedersoli or Shiloh may come up soon.