9mm two-fold question.

[hiram]

I am a new 9mm loader.

The firearm is a colt pocket nine.

I have used Fiochhi and Win with no problems. I pulled a Fiochhi bullet and it is .355. I just got the Lee 356-120 TC mold. The bullets are a little oversize and I sized some to .357. The dummy shell does not chamber. So the bullet is oversize. The 1st question is should I get a .354 or .355 die? If the .355 is too large, than I'm into the cost of another die. (I think I know what the first answer will be)

The 2nd question is, when I seat the bullet in the case to match factory OAL, the lube groove is exposed. Do you seat the bullet for a shorter OAL and cover the lube groove, or expose it?

Thanks.

[Pb2au]

Well, I honestly have never monkeyed around with 9mm, but I have a couple of thoughts.
1) Check to make sure you are taper crimping enough. That is a common booby trap in 45 acp.
2) I'd suggest slugging the barrel to get an idea where you need to be.

As for the OAL, that is a good point. Not knowing the mechanics of your pistol, get the barrel out and start with the OAL long and plunk it into the chamber. When the crimp is bang on, and the OAL is correct, it should just plop into the chamber. I guess what I'm saying is, you will have to do some testing to find the right answer.

[Recluse]

OAL I get with that same boolit is 1.045" and it feeds in every 9mm I have. I also size the boolits to .357" and they chamber (at 1.045" OAL) in all the guns.

I'd try seating the boolit deeper and then see how it chambers before investing in additional sizing dies.

:coffee:

[bangerjim]

That is exactly why they say 9's are the hardest to load. I messed with mine for over 3 months off and on until I got the length, seating, crimp/no crimp, load right.

I size for 356.

I have a S&W and it is very VERY finicky! You will probably have to mess around with different trials and (many) errors until you get it right. I gave up on the OAL specs and found the length that worked for my specific gun. I use virtually NO crimp. I even now have one of the new "no lube groove molds" that drops perfect boolits for it.

It shot factory FMJ's right out of the case 1st time......PERFECT! Cast.......not so much!

I PC all my slugs.

Shoots (sort of) OK now. But......I do NOT like 9mm. I prefer 38 SPL, 357mag, or 45 LC. And I have had virtually no problems with 40 S&W cart loading either.

I am thinking of getting rid of it and all my 9mm loading stuff and over 2000 rounds of brass.


Good luck on getting things "fingered" out!!!!!!


banger

[tazman]

I also size that boolit to .357 and it feeds and shoots accurately in every 9mm I have tried it in. My 9mm will accept boolits sized to .358 if I have the crimp done properly.
I have found that I need to seat the boolit then do the taper crimp as a fourth operation. When I started doing this, all my feeding problems disappeared.
I am not at home right now so cannot tell you what my OAL for that boolit is, but I remember it seemed short. The case mouth was right at the edge of the cone on the boolit nose when seated properly.

[MtGun44]

.357 with a good TC will probably chamber. .355 will probably lead like a maniac
and/or tumble as it leaves the barrel.

Bill

[bedbugbilly]

I cast the same bullet and size to .357 - my OAL is 1.05. They feed and fire great in my Ruger SR9. As mentioned - before anything else, I'd be looking at your taper crimp and bullet seating depth. You really need to pull your barrel and do a "plunk" test and that should tell you. Possibly coat the cartridge lightly with something - (graphite?) - put in the barrel and see where the hang-up is at - where the interference is at. I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the .357 diameter but rather the crimp or the seating depth. Every pistol is different. Before messing with new sizers, etc. below the .357 - check out these other things first. If you haven't measured your bore - you probably need to slug it and see what it is. Too small of a diameter and you'll be scraping lead out of the bore until the cows come home. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[hiram]

I figured slugging the bore would be step 1

[sigep1764]

Both my CZ and my new Kahr have short chambers. I seat the Lee 356 120tc at 1.033 and size to 358. Just a small crimp to remove the bell on the case. The 9mm head spaces in the case mouth, so load some dummy round, remove the barrel and drop the rounds in. They should be able to turn freely in the chamber if you have the oal right.

[dverna]

If you slug the barrel and decide to buy a new die, get one .001" larger. You can always open it up if it does not work.

Don Verna

[bdecker9]

+1,000,000 slug the barrel.
my sr9 gave me fits until i did.
if you have a lee factory crimp die try it on the dummy round. that takes care of taper theory, and the case bulging from the bullet. however i don't crimp my cast rounds. i think that it just that your OAL is too long for the bullet profile. let us know if you figure it out.

just a thought:
since you are loading your own, if you're only loading for this gun, why not set the OAL by the chamber/barrel. there's an easy way to measure with a wood dowel, to give you max OAL for your barrel. someone else can explain that better than me, i am really tired, and the words won't come out right, right now, BUT i would seat short enough to cover the lube groove. hope this helped. decker

[petroid]

Slug the bore. Size to .001" over bore. Take case and expand it enough so that it will barely chamber. Measure the OD of the case. Seat a boolit in an unprimed, expanded case to max oal of magazine. Measure OD of case. If too large to chamber crimp until it fits. Now does it chber without hitting the boolit? If not seat deeper. Then check feeding from magazine. Then load some

[hiram]

I slugged the bore -- .354--.3545. The bullet when sized to .357 leaves a small even bulge around the case. .357 is what I have now. I will post on Want To Buy for a .355. I will probably not get it there. Lee doesn't list a .355 but Lyman does. I seated the bullet all the way into the case to where the taper of the bullet starts. No luck. I believe I am dealing with a tight chamber. Twice when I ejected dummy rounds, the case came out but the bullet was stuck in. A tap with a chopstick got it out. I can't use them to eat with but they are helpful on the bench.

[Frank V]

Hiram
I'd get the .355 sizer die, I think that'll solve your problems. I've used that dia in a couple 9s & it works fine. I use the chamber it'self as a seating depth gauge. I try the loads in the chamber I'm going to actually use them in. If they drop right in & come even with the hood I'm good to go. Bullets too large will bulge the 9mm case as you've found out.
Good luck.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

That bullet won't chamber in my M&P unless I size it to 0.356". It would chamber fine if I seat it deeper. But that will cause an increase in pressure (which may or may not cause an issue). My guess is you should get the 0.355" sizer.

[tomme boy]

If the bullet stayed in the chamber, the round is loaded too long. Shorten it up and try again. I would not size the bullet any smaller until you figure out the length of it.

[HMC710]

I must have got lucky! Lee 124 RN as cast with tumble lube and Lee dies crimped in groove feeds my Glock, Llama, and AR w/no problems

[hiram]

I have the Lee 4 die set. The shells slip right into the carbide crimp die and still don't chamber even with a crimp. The .357 bullet must be the culprit. I believe the chamber is real tight. I have a .355 and .354 on the way. I measured the carbide ring on the the crimp die and it is .385" Any measurements available form you guys?

[scattershot]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a carbide crimp die? Never seen one.

[hiram]

Maybe I misnamed it. Carbide factory crimp die

[Freeandcold]

+1 on if bullet stayed in the chamber = too long...
The max OAL is (among other things) dependent on the bullet profile. Specifically, the location of the ogive... What did the bullet look like when you tapped it out? Was it engraved by the rifling? If so, too long. Hope this helps.

[scattershot]

Maybe I misnamed it. Carbide factory crimp die

Thanks, learn something new every day around here. You mentioned that you seated the boolit to the ogive, and it still wouldn't chamber. Could be the barrel has an abrupt leade. Do you have another boolit you could try? I had a Kahr .45 once that wouldn't chamber GI ball ammo, but another boolit solved the problem.

Another question. If the boolit was seated to the ogive shoulder, what made it stick in the chamber on extraction? Are you sure you're getting all the flare out of the case mouth when you taper crimp?

Don't these problems drive ya nuts?

[hiram]

Nuts is right-- You feel you're an experienced reloader and then something new pops up. There is a very visible shoulder in the barrel that the bullet must have gotten hung up on. No rifling engraving.

[Garyshome]

Get a 9mm case gauge. I have one for every cal I reload.

[kryogen]

your OAL is just too long. I'm sure this is your issue, not bullet diameter.

slug the bore and go .001 over
should work at 357 anyway with proper OAL.

[dakotashooter2]

Case thickness can be an issue too. Some are a bit thicker than others so in the case of a tight chamber you might have to go to a smaller boolit for a thicker case. Some of my rounds have a visible bulge but still chamber just fine.

[robertbank]

To the OP I load and shoot thousands of the Lyman 356402 bullet which I suspect is about the same bullet as you are shooting. MY OAL is 1.10 and they run through my 9MM guns like butter. Virtually every problem I have had or others at our club have had involves loading the 9MM to long. I suspect this it the case with your problems as well. FYI my favourite load for competition is 4.1 gr of 231/HP38 under my 125 gr bullet. Load is well within manual specs and is very accurate in all my guns.

As an aside to determine the maximum length of any pistol cartridge for any gun follow these steps:

1. Measure the length of the bullet.
2. Drop the bullet into the chamber and measure from the base of the bullet to the edge where the case would lie flush with the barrel.
3. Add the two measurements together and reduce your OAL by a few thousanths to allow for variance in your reloading press.

That should be your OAL for your gun and your boolit combo. Using this method has worked for me using all my 9MM guns.

With the 125 gr truncated cone boolit I have settles on an OAL of 1.10 and they do run through my guns like butter with no signs of problems using the load I mentioned earlier.

I would also check your crimp. All you want to do is remove the belling you applied to the case. I just use my fingers. If I don't feel any lip on the case mouth I figure I am good to go. If you leave any lip in place your cartridges will hang up, almost all the time.

Hope this helps

Take care

Bob

[MtGun44]

I'll bet money you will be unhappy with .355 boolits, too small.

Bill

[robertbank]

I'll bet money you will be unhappy with .355 boolits, too small.

Bill

This!

.355 sized lead bullets will simply not work, I have had little success with .356 bullets. You are going to have bullets tumbling inside of 10 yards. I found this to be the case with .356 boolits as well. For some reason .357 seems to be magic. Get your OAL right and your problems should disappear.

Take Care

Bob

[kryogen]

356 has given me catastrophic groups and trouble cycling.
357 cycles but groups bad
358 nice groups, cycles fine.
both barrels are .357

[hiram]

Tried an idea. People are saying the .357 bullet is good and the problem is OAL. I took a case which chambered and seated the bullet below the case mouth maybe .030- .040". Also applied a taper crimp The dummy cartridge did not chamber. I am back to thinking the .357 is too big, chamber could be tight and the solution is a .354 or .355 bullet.

[robertbank]

Have you determined the max OAL your gun will use as above.

A 354 bullet may chamber but so might a .350 bullet but all it will do is wonder down the barrel and exit going somewhere. The fact factory ammo shoots ok suggests to me the bore is likely .355 as it should be. Without seeing what you are doing it really is difficult to say much more. You may have found a gun that you just have to shoot factory ammo in, I have to tell you though I have not run into a 9MM gun that would not chamber a teuncated cone bullet. You may have one.

Bob

[hiram]

I got some help from a member with some of his bullets and lyman sizing dies.

I have to tell you, I am embarrassed. The 9mm is the first time loading for a handgun. The problem seemed to be when I dropped the dummy round into the chamber, the slide would not close. I am using the lee 120 TC bullet. I was also given RN bullets. I was told the problem was excessive OAL. I shortened the dummy rounds. Still, if I dropped them in the chamber, and let the slide close slowly as not to jam the round in the gun, since that was happening, I could close the slide if I pushed on the back of the slide. I looked in the ejection port, and, voila. The extractors. By pushing the rear of the slide, the extractors were hooking over the rim.

At that point I loaded and magazine with the dummy rounds, used the .357 bullets, AND, the slide closed and eject properly. The cartridge was being pushed up from the mag, catching the extractors, and the slide was closing.

My inexperience with handgun loading was my downfall.

[MtGun44]

Good to admit it, and glad you sorted this out. I was pretty certain that
you weren't likely to be unable to chamber a .357 dia load.

Good luck! That boolit will likely work very well for you at .357.

Try this method of setting the LOA.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52652&d=1314925371

Look closely, there is a ball round behind it, and the front corner of the TC is set to fall
on that curve of the nose of the ball round - so it will feed the same way. Do this with
the H&G 68 in .45 ACP, too.

Bill

[kryogen]

told you it was oal.

[Handloader109]

Glad you figured it out. The key takeaway is to check chambering you Must remove the barrel from the gun. Unless you have damaged rounds, the ejector is irrelevant to the discussion. Take a factory round and drop into chamber. Note the location of the round and how loose it is. Now take the reload and plunk into the chamber. If it doesn't stick in chamber and is as deep as a the factory round, all should be good. This is not for you, Hiram, it's for the next reader having problems which I sure have been there too.

[hickfu]

Well, I just started reloading for my 9mm finally (casting too) I got the Lee 356 120TC boolit and after reading this thread I was a little worried. But I loaded 100 up to an AOL of 1.065 and they chamber perfectly.. now to test them, they are powder coated as well..

EDIT: sized to .358

Doc