Friend's old Winchester.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I had the pleasure of going through a friend's collection of guns some of which have been in the family for four generations. This one Winchester really stood out to me, and both my friend and I would love more information. Not an expert on Winchesters but I believe this one is a model 1886. It has a full length octagon barrel chambered in 38-56. I didn't have a tape handy but I would guesstimate the barrel is around 24-26 inches. It has a semi-buckhorn style rear sight on the barrel that can lay flat when the tang mounted sight is in use. The front sight also has two settings that can be flipped back and forth. One is the standard post, the other is a post with a globe around it. It appears to be all original, but not really sure. The bluing on the barrel still looks nice and there are some traces of case hardening on the receiver. The bore looks very good and well cared for. Unfortunately both the stock and forehand have a crack in them (both cracks are visible in the 3rd photo). The serial number is 841xx and while my friend has no intention of selling an estimated value would be icing on the cake.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/yhusagu8.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/yna5y6em.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/jatahu6e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/pere8aby.jpg

[ajjohns]

I don't know how much it's worth but it sure is a beauty! I'm sure the condition you say it's in makes it worth quite a bit? I don't know if it helps but Guns International and Gun Broker may give you an idea if they're selling one in about the same shape. Definately a nice piece!

[2ndAmendmentNut]

From the limited research I have done Winchester only offered the 38-56 from 1887 to 1910. Is there a way to find out the date of manufacture?

[yooper]

What a gorgeous '86! From the serial number it's an 1895 manufacture. Looks to be all original with beautiful color case hardening on the receiver and basically untouched screw heads. The tang peep sight alone is a couple hundred dollar item. The value would likely be over $3000 just the way it sits. The 1886 is one of John Browning's acknowledged BEST actions (like it's little brother the 1892) and the double locking lugs on the rear make it extremely strong. Your friend indeed has a weapon to keep absolutely UNTOUCHED and hand down to future generations. He may be interested in contacting the Buffalo Bill Historical Museum and getting a letter on it. It cost $50 last I knew, but if the rear sight, Globe front and tang peep are factory authenticated, it would definitely add to the value/interest. For more info, you might go to the GunBroker forum "Ask the Experts" and get Bert Hartman, the Moderator, to look at your pics. Bert wrote the book (literally - he's the co-author) on the Red Book of Winchester Values. If you decide to do that, drop a cleaning rod down the barrel with the action closed and measure the cleaning rod to get the exact barrel length from the bolt face to the muzzle.
yooper

[yooper]

Here's the Ask the Experts URL if you're interested. http://forums.gunbroker.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2
yooper

[ohiochuck]

The date of manufacture was in 1894 as listed in George Madis book of Winchester Dates of Manufacture.
Jim

[yooper]

And the Winchester Arms Collector's Association database lists it as 1893. Different references have different data.
yooper

[Reverend Al]

Wait a minute! Is everyone just missing the most obvious question here? How well does it SHOOT?
:roll:

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Wait a minute! Is everyone just missing the most obvious question here? How well does it SHOOT?
:roll:

My friend showed me the rifle to see what it would take to get the old girl shooting. I explained load dies are available, along with molds and brass can be formed from 45-70s. Unfortunately the cost of all those components combined with the stock split will probably prevent us from shooting her in the foreseeable future.

[enfield]

Believe it or not, there was a RECALL on that model and you are to send it to me for a refund of it's original retail value. I will give you the address if you want ?

[Gunlaker]

Beautiful. I've got one much like it, except without the very good bore. Mine is a bit ugly inside.

The .38-56 cartridge is a pile of fun to shoot with black powder. One day I might try to find one in better condition than mine. It's very easy to get up and running should you want to try. Don't bother with forming dies, just run .45-70 brass into a .40-65 sizing die, and then into the .38-56 sizer. Some say you need to anneal beforehand, but I have not found this to be the case.

Chris.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you all for the information. I'll be sure to pass it onto my friend.

[KirkD]

The rear tang sight alone is worth around $500 ..... I bought one exactly like it about two years ago from a fellow in Maine, and that is what I had to fork out to get my hands on it. The other two sights are also worth a fair sum more than the average sights. Between the three special sights, I would say that the total for the sights alone would be around $1,000. I bought an '86 a couple years ago with slightly less case colour but in the more desirable 45-70. Judging from what I had to pay to get my hands on it, All things considered, I would say that your 38-56 is worth closer to $4,000 with the sights, full octagon barrel, and that level of case colour minus the less desirable caliber (although, in my books, I just would love a 38-56). There are a few (and I mean 'few') craftsmen who could repair those cracks, without touching the finish, to inject the proper glue right into the crack via the front end that is normally embedded in the receiver tang area, such that it would be nigh invisible. Beautiful old '86. Keep it original; don't do anything to change the visible surface areas of any part of that fine old rifle.

[pietro]

And the Winchester Arms Collector's Association database lists it as 1893. Different references have different data.
yooper



FWIW, the horse's mouth (aka:the Winchester factory) lists it as being made in 1894, not 1893 or 1895 (pp6): http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/files/images/wfa/2012-All/2012-Articles/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year----2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf



.

[yooper]

And another quote from Page 1 of the same "horse's mouth" as referenced above:

"There are many “legends” about why the historic serial number records for Winchester rifles and,shotguns are not complete or why they are not always verifiable. A few reasons cited are:
1. A fire at the factory
2. Inadvertent destruction (during office cleaning)
3. Records simply lost in filing
4. Records misplaced between ownership transitions
5. Documents borrowed but not returned
There is probably some kernel of truth to all of them. But the fact remains; there is no original, single, totally accurate database of serial numbers from 1866 forward that we are aware of. But perhaps these pages can help you somewhat in your research. "

Your friend's gun was made in the early 1890's. As I mentioned earlier, if you go to GunBroker "Ask the Experts", Bert Hartman can likely give you the day and the year that your friend's gun was given its serial number in the polishing room.
yooper

[2ndAmendmentNut]

There are a few (and I mean 'few') craftsmen who could repair those cracks, without touching the finish, to inject the proper glue right into the crack via the front end that is normally embedded in the receiver tang area, such that it would be nigh invisible. Beautiful old '86. Keep it original; don't do anything to change the visible surface areas of any part of that fine old rifle.

I certainly agree with keeping it all original as does my friend. Can you or anyone else here on the forum recommend a smith capable of this kind of work?

[Geobru]

My friend showed me the rifle to see what it would take to get the old girl shooting. I explained load dies are available, along with molds and brass can be formed from 45-70s. Unfortunately the cost of all those components combined with the stock split will probably prevent us from shooting her in the foreseeable future.

I was in a similar situation several years back. I had a 40-82 that hadn't been fired for at least 80 years. I bout three boxes of loaded ammo from Gad Custom Cartridges to see if it would be worth buying all of the components to see if I could get it operational. That was the best money I could have spent. Since then, I have shot that old girl over 500 times.

By the way, the price of a box of 38-56 on their website is $30 plus shipping right now. That's a bargain IMHO!

[KirkD]

Can you or anyone else here on the forum recommend a smith capable of this kind of work?
I do know one wood-reparing wizard up here in Canada who has worked miracles with original, old Winchester stocks. If you just shipped the buttstock, it would be no problem. If you are interested, let me know and I will show the fellow a photo of the crack and see what he says. I will say that I've seen several examples of his stock repairs on vintage Winchesters and most are totally invisible and undetectable.