Reforming 375 brass from 30-30 (not fireforming)?

[andym79]

Hi guys what do I need to form 375 WIN brass from 30-30 cases.

I would rather do the forming work in the press than by fireforming.

What do I need?

[fryboy]

fireforming is more fun and will still need to be done to some extent

what i did was buy a couple of lee decapping dies ( in essence a big empty die body ) and a couple of lee tapered expanders ,one for a 35 caliber rifle ( which one doesnt matter as it's just a middle step ) and a 375 rifle one , the latter i had to grind down to be able to get the more of the case expanded , iirc it was about 1/2" not including the decapping pin ( hence the .358 middle step ,i tried .338 as well but the .358 did well enough ) dont forget to lube the inside of the neck !!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136543/lee-universal-depriming-and-decapping-die?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/313919/lee-ez-x-expander-decapping-rod-35-remington-358-winchester-350-remington-magnum-replacement-part

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/438719/lee-ez-x-expander-decapping-rod-375-h-and-h-magnum-replacement-part


it's just a little easier than trimming 38-55 cases altho the 38-55 cases from starline are a little tougher than necked up 30-30 cases ,also ,often the necked up 30-30 cases are a wee bit short

[starmac]

There is a guy that lives not to far from here, that was selling off a bunch of stuff. When I went to buy a 375 mold from him he ask if I knew anybody that needed 375 win components, as he had a lot of them, iirc a bunch of new brass. I didn't look to see what he had, but could probably get back a hold of him if any of you guys need brass.

[andym79]

This is all because 375 win brass is almost impossible to get here!

From what I have gathered doing google searches; using a lee universal decapper die body, but using a 33 WCF, a 35 Whelan and a 375H&H expander in the die might be the way to gently open up a 30-30 case as they all have gentle shoulder and therefore I assume a more gradual taper on the expander. The second two would have to be trimmed shorter however!

The case should be annealed prior to forming.

After expanding the 30-30 case up to 338-358-375 tapered, the brass could then be full length sized using a 375 FL die.

Is this on the right track?

The reason I don't want to fire form is; if a vertical shot is required for even expansion. The range at which I shot will ban me if I start taking vertical shots, even if there is no bullet and its for fire forming!

[Kansas Ed]

I used to use a few grains of Unique, fill to the mouth with cornmeal, and top with a parrifin plug. This was on a .219 imp. Zipper. ....little different animal, but should work the same. Experiment with the charges to get it just right. I'd try that before I spent a lot of money.

Ed

[fryboy]

i've tried several methods ( including the gentle necking up with several of the intermediate decapping stems ) the newer lee ones are the bomb !! they taper just about perfect and if i i didnt erm wouldnt of had to grind the 375 one off to full size it up all the way i'd just use it but it's a wee bit too long ,
i used to use a round ball with 8.5 grains of unique , i merely expanded the neck up enough to hold the ball ( yes it looks funny ) but usually blew out fine ) ye olde lyman's #46 has a recipe ( or two ) for a 79 graain round ball load , they stated 8 grains of unique ( and the starting load ) was perhaps most accurate ( for them ) i found that while it shoots great it didnt always full form the case , 8.5 does for me
new or once fired brass i never anneal until after i necked them up , sometimes if i annealed first they'd be too soft to neck up correctly ( of course your mileage may vary )

edit to add , a 358/356 win expander is short enough that they dont have to be ground but i have yet to find a 375 caliber one that is short enough the way it comes to neck up all the way

[marvelshooter]

The reason I don't want to fire form is; if a vertical shot is required for even expansion. The range at which I shot will ban me if I start taking vertical shots, even if there is no bullet and its for fire forming!
I fire form .30-30 brass into .38-55 cases in my basement. I use 5 grains of Unique followed by a full case of corn meal and a short piece of crayon. I shoot them into a box of rags - no vertical shooting required. I anneal them first and have had one split case out of a hundred.

[jbake3]

Ever thought about using .38-55? I went that route with good results. Started with low end .375 loads and worked up to what I needed. Good results so far.

[JFE]

If using cases that have been fired before or have age hardened, then annealing first is best. New virgin 30/30 should form up OK without splits.

I had a few tapered expanders made up a few years ago and a gentle taper works best. If concerned about lop sided neck thickness, try partial expansion then rotate the case 90 deg at a time to even out the expansion.

After opening up the cases I use a load that's not quite a full power load to fireform and use the loaded ammo for practice or shooting rabbits. I figure there's no point wasting effort, range time, primers and powder etc for just forming cases.

The cases do come out about 1mm short after fireforming, but if you use a Lee FCD you can maintain the correct OAL.

30/30 brass quality varies a lot in weight and capacity, so try to use the same brand for consistency.

[JFE]

Also try Rebel's in QLD as they keep a lot of different cases.

[Stephen Cohen]

Shame you didn't mention this a month ago I had 200 once fired I gave them away. Queensland gun exchange site shows they have them in stock, I just checked.

[GRUMPA]

There's another method a person can use so that there isn't a need to use powder or primers. When I make the 25, 30, 32Rem cases I Hydroform them. The parent case (30-30) shoulder location is 1.440 and the Rem cases are 1.500. If you can make a plunger from hard metal, leave the primer in the case, fill with water, run the brass in the die, insert plunger, and hit it a couple of times. This brass must be annealed just before Hydroforming and when everything works as it should it takes the fire forming right out of the equation.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?228409-25Rem-30Rem-32Rem

I have before and after pictures of all 3 flavors, just take a look at what Hydroforming can do. Just note the before and after shoulder location...

[mikeym1a]

I was fire-forming some cases in the back yard, and they sounded very loud, got out an old length of antenna mast. I stuck the muzzle in the end of the pipe, and and pulled the trigger and got a '..pomph..'. I laughed. It sounded like something out of a cartoon. Something to think about. mikey

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Just lube the cases well in and out and use a tapered expander, i.e., 30-30 to 35-30-30 Ackley, use a 38 special expander, 30-30 to 32 S, use an 8mm slightly reduced diameter expander. 30-30 to 375 or 38-55, expand to 35 then 375. I find Rcases the softest, W's a bit harder,and Starline harder still. I anneal the Ws and Starline first before expanding and the Rs after.....to prevent splits at the mouth. Later anneal after several firings to stop work hardening splits. BvT

[andym79]

Well I got around to reforming some using the dies. I have formed 50, first of all ran them through a 32 special die and then a 375 H&H in the lee decapper body! I must say the 375 H&H did an excellent job of forming brass very close to 375 WIN with minimal effort!

Now to see if they split on firing!

[NVScouter]

I have a couple thousand 30-30s and 30-30, 32WSP, 357Herrett, and 375H&H dies. Think this will get me by until I get some 38-55 dies using your meathod?

[cwheel]

It's less work to fire form if you can. As said above, 5-6' long pipe works great, fairly quiet. Just make sure you anneal the brass well first to get a good even stretch on the brass and no thin spots. This works well for 38-55, I just don't like the shorter brass, ( trims to 2.00 on most ) If using a tubular magazine like a Winchester or Marlin, you can't reach the roll crimp part of the RCBS cowboy seater die. You could trim a cheap Lee FCD die shorter to get a crimp, just never had to go there yet.
Chris

[Harry O]

Some say that the .375 Winchester cases are heavier than 30-30 cases. There is some truth to that, but not much. I have both calibers and weighed a bunch of each sets of virgin brass. The lightest of the .375 Win were lighter than the heaviest of the 30-30. The overall average between all the .375 and all the 30-30 (about 50 cases of each) was less than 5% difference with the .375 being heavier. That little a difference could be just the overlap of tolerances in setting up the machines for a run.

In any case, I have never fire-formed these particular cases, but I have fire-formed a lot of others. What I do is prime a virgin case, scoop in 13 to 15 grains of Red Dot (or any other fast powder -- the exact amount is not that critical), fill the rest of the case with a filler, then fill the neck with paraffin wax. To put the paraffin wax in, I warm a slab of wax up with a heat blanket until the white color turns to an opaque color. Then I can press it into the mouth of the case and that seals it. Then I fire it. I have NEVER had a new case fail. I have had a couple of used cases fail, so I don't use them anymore.