For the Ed Harris Fans....

[Phineas Bluster]

Deleted

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for the link.

[Outpost75]

Recently found treasure trove here: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm

[pretzelxx]

Overpressure loads!! Sounds fun! Good read

[Outpost75]

I like it, "Kids, don't try this at home...."

[9.3X62AL]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. When Ed Harris writes something, I read it. Period.

[MtGun44]

24 BHN for 9mm?! Really? Sorry that is completely unnecessary.

Bill

[prsman23]

Or just powder coat them and say the heck with drilling and lube or bhn issues

[tazman]

24 BHN for 9mm?! Really? Sorry that is completely unnecessary.

Bill
You are absolutely right. It isn't necessary.
He stated they were using backstop range scrap because it was cheap and available. He never mentioned adding anything to the alloy to harden it . It was also harder than necessary because they were water dropping it.
When doing large batches in a confined area, water dropping speeds up the process since you don't have to wait to handle the boolits until they cool. You also don't need room to spread them out to keep them from denting each other. I water drop for these reasons, not because I need the hardness.

[Outpost75]

You are absolutely right. It isn't necessary.
He stated they were using backstop range scrap because it was cheap and available. He never mentioned adding anything to the alloy to harden it . It was also harder than necessary because they were water dropping it.
When doing large batches in a confined area, water dropping speeds up the process since you don't have to wait to handle the boolits until they cool. You also don't need room to spread them out to keep them from denting each other. I water drop for these reasons, not because I need the hardness.

It's nice to read an intelligent comment from somebody who actually read the article AND UNDERSTOOD it! 8-)

[fecmech]

Recently found treasure trove here: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm

Thank you Outpost.

[Char-Gar]

Good links all. Mr. Harris is a common sense guy who can be relied on to give solid information and point of view. Folks can learn allot from reading his stuff that he shares so generously with the shooting community. I know I have. Still, I would bet if he posted on this site under another name, folks would ignore his stuff and argue with him on a regular basis. That seems to be the way things go these days.

[9.3X62AL]

Indeed, Charles.

[Fishman]

Good links all. Mr. Harris is a common sense guy who can be relied on to give solid information and point of view. Folks can learn allot from reading his stuff that he shares so generously with the shooting community. I know I have. Still, I would bet if he posted on this site under another name, folks would ignore his stuff and argue with him on a regular basis. That seems to be the way things go these days.

And if he posted as himself, people would come out of the woodwork to give him a hard time. It's a no win but I'd bet he would choose anonymity.

[BruceB]

Tazman's reasoning on the subject of water-dropping is precisely the same as mine.

I water-drop most of my bullets because it's CONVENIENT.

Any gains in hardness are purely a beneficial side effect for the various types of cast-bullet loads that I create. I still pay some limited attention to hardness for specific uses (such as my Shiloh Sharps', which likes soft bullets....) but apart from that, for the reasons cited by Tazman.... it's water-dropping all the way.

[tazman]

Thanks to Phineas and Outpost for the links. Good reads.

Mr. Harris always goes into such detail with his articles that there is much to be learned from almost anything he writes.

[35remington]

Chargar. Fishman......I have a suspicion that's happened here already.

[Treetop]

I'm an Ed Harris fan! Thanks for the links. Tt.

[MtGun44]

Hah!, I can never agree with the "I water drop because it is easier" crowd. Somehow I can manage
to live without pickup the boolits for 5 minutes, and avoid a bucket, water splashing, pulling out
and drying wet boolits, etc - all so "easy". No way do I agree. Have fun with you water games,
but I'm not buying it. I did read it and really think it is silly, regardless of how many time somebody
explains how "easy" it is to play with wet boolits and buckets of water in my shop.

In my view, dropping onto a towel and lifting the towel every 5 minutes or so will roll them back
and clear the drop zone. Clean, dry boolits in 5 minutes, and I really don't need to fondle them
for a few minutes.

I did read the reasons, but I really don't like my boolits to be that ridiculously hard - and in my view,
for the extra hassle of dealing with water and fishing around pulling them out and drying wet boolits.

Bill

[tazman]

Everyone has their own routine. If it works for you that's great.
The area that I cast in currently has no room for a drop area on the table/bench. My small table is taken up completely with my lead pot and emergency catch tray with only enough extra room for the necessary tools. The only other space currently available is on the floor, hence the water drop container. Since I cast from a seated position, dropping into the water container is easy and simple. I dump out the cast boolits on an old towel in another room during the time when I am waiting for the lead pot to get back to heat after adding ingots. When I finish casting, the only boolits left in the water container are dumped while I am waiting for the lead pot to solidify. By the time I put the lead pot away all the boolits are dry and put in containers for sizing, lubing, and loading.
I make use of the room that I have available. Perhaps later I will have more room where I can spread my hot freshly dropped boolits out to cool, but currently that is not an option.

[cainttype]

Water-dropping and air-cooling both have their places. I don't normally ever cast small batches (less than 20lbs) of anything, so when I choose to WD I use a tall 13 gallon kitchen trash can lined with a mesh clothes bag. I like the tall water column and that the can sits on the floor while allowing me to dump casts from a comfortable height.
Pull the mesh sack, quickly drain, then spread on wire racks (rescued from a donut shop) to dry outside. No digging around, no hassle... Works for me.

[Char-Gar]

Water quenching for convenience sake makes sense. Water quenching for hardness sake sometimes makes sense and sometimes does not. Not being a high volume caster, I seldom engage in the practice. If I needed to produce a large pile of bullets for an autopistol, I would haul out the bucket full of water. Tumble lube of some sort would be the way to go with that practice.

[robertbank]

You are absolutely right. It isn't necessary.
He stated they were using backstop range scrap because it was cheap and available. He never mentioned adding anything to the alloy to harden it . It was also harder than necessary because they were water dropping it.
When doing large batches in a confined area, water dropping speeds up the process since you don't have to wait to handle the boolits until they cool. You also don't need room to spread them out to keep them from denting each other. I water drop for these reasons, not because I need the hardness.

Exactly! I cast and shoot 10K - 20K of 9MM per year using the 356402 boolit from Lyman. Works great, no leading in any of my nines at just over 1,000 fps.

Take Care

Bob

[tomme boy]

I let all of my boolits sit for a few weeks before I do anything with them anyway. So the water issue is a NON-issue to me. They are dry by the time I get to them. I do everything in batches. I will cast a certain boolit till I think that is enough. Then I move onto the next mold. Once I feel I have enough boolits for the things I cast for, I switch over to sizing. I never go back and forth and back and forth.

Water dropping boolits for me, I get a lot less deformed boolits and it is just too easy. I will adjust my lead if it ends up too hard after water dropping. No big deal to me.

[tygar]

Water dropping is quicker, easier & not in any way a pain. Neither in doing or in cleanup!

Put a fine mesh stainless colander in your water bucket. When done, pull it out & set it on the ground, if outside, or a towel to drain.

It is a handy way to carry your bullets to the table to lay out on cloth or towel for drying & separating. Exactly the same as if they were air cooled.

Your bullets are cool from the get go & you can load & shoot most stuff right then, even for mags. I've tested 15bhn #2 immediately after water dropping & get between 20-22 m/l.

Notwithstanding the fact that Ed Harris is a pretty sharp guy.

[wvmedic]

Good links all. Mr. Harris is a common sense guy who can be relied on to give solid information and point of view. Folks can learn allot from reading his stuff that he shares so generously with the shooting community. I know I have. Still, I would bet if he posted on this site under another name, folks would ignore his stuff and argue with him on a regular basis. That seems to be the way things go these days.

Absolutely without a doubt, Char-Gar.

[robertbank]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. When Ed Harris writes something, I read it. Period.

Right on Al and when you follow his advice over time you should begin to realize the guy knows of what he speaks. Sometimes I do things and then find out for no other reason than just dumb luck what I am doing is recommended by someone like Ed Harris. Other times I find I am either about to or have gone down a well traveled "wrong" road and you read Ed Harris, mumble a silent thanks and do a U turn. Like my father-in-law often said, "Anyone can get lost...just takes a damn fool to stay lost". Reading Ed Harris can keep a lot of folks from getting lost.

Merry Christmas

Bob

[dtknowles]

Ed Harris has a new article out.

Ed Harris: Loading Cast Bullets In the 9mm Luger/Parabellum (http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/ed_harris_cast_9mm.html)

PB

Thanks for the link, was the story just the one page? It seemed short and not much data. I guess can't expect much for free.

Tim

[waksupi]

Good links all. Mr. Harris is a common sense guy who can be relied on to give solid information and point of view. Folks can learn allot from reading his stuff that he shares so generously with the shooting community. I know I have. Still, I would bet if he posted on this site under another name, folks would ignore his stuff and argue with him on a regular basis. That seems to be the way things go these days.

He does, and they do!

[Artful]

Phineas Bluster - thanks for posting (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?4162-Phineas-Bluster)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png

[44man]

I think harder boolits are needed in the nine. Small case with fast powders. Instant high pressure.
I water drop for my boolits in the big bores for a tougher boolit to take rifling. Then I even make a harder alloy with more antimony and tin for better accuracy. Even 50-50 shoots better if oven hardened.
NEVER have I found softer boolits better. My premise is to make cast act like the super accurate jacketed you shoot. I might air cool 20 to 1 BPCR boolits and pure ML stuff but they can be water dropped too for ease.

[9.3X62AL]

I lean toward 44 Man's view when it comes to cast bullets in the 9mm--harder = better. My "default" alloy for most rifles has been 92/6/2 for many years, and this runs BHn of about 14-15. As I grew in my cast bullet tinkering--research is too strong a word for this particular course of conduct--it dawned upon me one bright day that in earlier epochs of this process I had had the same leading and inaccuracy issues in my 9mm work as I had experienced with concurrent stabs in the dark involving rifles. We called that a CLUE at my former job site. I cleaned things up in my rifles through strict adherence to dimensional integrity between bullet and firearm throating, and a glance at the environment in which the 9mm (and the 40 S&W and 10mm as well) do business shows that these calibers are for purposes of environmental quirks almost identical to rifles--relatively high operating pressures, chamber/throat/barrel a one-piece assembly, with a further aggravation not present in rifles of insanely fast twist rates for the bullet lengths involved in the process. The short answer became TREAT THE 9MM/40 S&W/10MM LIKE RIFLES WHEN USING CAST BULLETS. This regimen has worked well for me for over 15 years now.

[dualsport]

Bingo! A gold mine has dropped in my lap! Now I have plenty to read while the rain soaks our poor dry state.

[rking22]

"Recently found treasure trove here: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm (http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm) "

I am unable to open his now, anyone else having issues?

[Nueces]

It opened for me just now, a little slowly.

[rking22]

Me too ????? Just gotta workon my patience I guess [smilie=s:

[robertbank]

They all open for me.

Bob

[selpaw]

Just saw this post. Read the article and as I expected it was the classic Ed Harris article, thoroughly documented with all the necessary details that would convince you of its validity even if you didn't know who Ed H was. selpaw