Re-swaging a ready made tip.

[atiq]

I am utterly new to this but had to follow this path as where I am located I cannot just buy tips let alone order swaging dies and propellant. Luckily I can get an ample supply of ammo in 7.62x51 dewsgnated mil surplus with imr 4320 with 42 grains propellant.

My target is participate in local F/TR competition that have started recently. The only way that is economical will be by swaging the already available bullet tips to a better BC ogives by reswaging them with some thing similar to hidden bullet pointing die but with a relatively heavy pressures to change the .312 BC 149 grain flat tail bullet tip to .450 +- BC tip with boat tail incorporated into it And may be put some rebate into it, IF possible.
I have access to lathe, 3d bed cuuter mainly used to cut aluminum frame for RC cars coming in for repair. CAD design is also not an issue.

So it all comes to one question? If it is doable then what do I have to watch for as far as re swaging a tip is concerned.

[MUSTANG]

atig:

In addition to this site; you may also do a lot of reading on the Corbin Web Site: http://www.corbins.com/links.htm.
A lot of information that may help, including specs on dimensions that might help you. It is not the best organized site, and finding things can be a challenge, but a lot of technical info. Somewhere buried in there is info on his dies for reforming MilSurp FMJ bullets, or it was a couple of years ago when I saw it.

[runfiverun]

you could just aim a little higher.

[aaronraad]

I am utterly new to this but had to follow this path as where I am located I cannot just buy tips let alone order swaging dies and propellant. Luckily I can get an ample supply of ammo in 7.62x51 dewsgnated mil surplus with imr 4320 with 42 grains propellant.

My target is participate in local F/TR competition that have started recently. The only way that is economical will be by swaging the already available bullet tips to a better BC ogives by reswaging them with some thing similar to hidden bullet pointing die but with a relatively heavy pressures to change the .312 BC 149 grain flat tail bullet tip to .450 +- BC tip with boat tail incorporated into it And may be put some rebate into it, IF possible.
I have access to lathe, 3d bed cuuter mainly used to cut aluminum frame for RC cars coming in for repair. CAD design is also not an issue.

So it all comes to one question? If it is doable then what do I have to watch for as far as re swaging a tip is concerned.

How remote are you exactly, given there is a local F/TR competition? What do the other competitors have access to?

First you'll need to check if the 149gr projectile has a steel insert as part of the core make-up. If so, there is not much chance of re-forming the projectile. Post some images of the projectile your working with if possible.

Mustang is right with regards to Corbin, here is a more direct link H-type Specialty Dies (http://www.swagedies.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CBST&Category_Code=HSPECIALDIE)...your looking at the first three expensive dies. The dies are not simple and require a reasonable understanding of tool and die design. They are typically a split die (closed) type and made exclusively to form one projectile with no real adjustment.

What sort of press equipment do you have available for swaging, as the force required will be more than a converted reloading press will be able to sustain?

I'm not saying your request isn't possible, but the end result will be lucky to improve on the accuracy of the FMJ projectile you are starting with.Are the FMJ's supplied with an open base or an open tip? If they open base then you will always get less accuracy due to the softness and melting temperature of lead.

Let me know if you want some further detail, but I'd be spending my money on the barrel and F/TR equipment before trying to re-form projectiles.

If they are open tip:
I would just look at running them through a Lee type sizing die to get a consistent shank diameter. If meplat trimming and tipping improves your overall length and weight then go for that as well. Otherwise batch them by weight, overall length, ogive length or whatever other dimension you can measure, if you want get the most out of them. Also look at the minimum twist you can get away with for the projectile, given your local range atmospheric conditions and altitude. The slowest twist in combination with the longest barrel should give you the highest muzzle velocity all else being equal.


If they are open base you might be able to get away with reverse swaging them into an open tip. This might give you a chance to form some type of boat-tail, but again the forces involved don't typically result in an improvement in bullet accuracy/concentricity. FMJ military jackets aren't renowned for the accuracy requirements to shoot F/TR out to 1000y.

[atiq]

I am in Pakistan and here the dealers are not so interested in reloading stuff in their shops. BTW: The only ammo that is available is 190 grain hirtenbergers at about 4.5 $ per pop last Friday and delivery is in a month at least. There is ban on import of rifles as well but we are hearing that it is being lifted soon. The local matches are being held by rifle enthusiasts on their own and this is the first year when proper rules have been followed yet a lot needs to be done.
I just bought 100 lapua scenars 155 gr at 180 $; this should give you a fair idea of the current prices that are prevailing. Cz750 is selling at about roughly 10 grand NIB.
just checked the tips have steel insert in milsurp ammo as magnet is sticking to the tip. So not much hope is there. Will post pics asap I can.
I have a rcbs rcii press and will probably try to make a swaging press from the design that is another thread. But there are local arbor presses available is pretty huge sizes just that they are a bit crude and will probably have to make some contraption to make them work on my tune.
Fmj j have an open base but the open area is pretty small with very slight boat tailing in it. Accuracy with this ammo is reported to be around 2 MOA by the top shooters. I have booked a cz 750 but waiting is without any dead line, rest of the stuff I have almost ready with just a spotter scope left. Rifle that I am using right now is a m60 barrel refitted into a Mauser 98 action. And have a complete reloading setup that came with it though very slightly used. Choices are limited but thinking out of box led me to SH and finally here.
@aaronraad I will start doing the points raised by you to get the maximum out of what I have available to me. Sorting so that consistent ammo comes thru the barrel. Secondly will try to design and post what I have in mind about making my own reforming die on arbor press design partly because of availability of material and die steel and partly because of ease of working at the initial stages.

[algunjunkie]

I had to read the post twice just to make sure that I wasn't misreading the cost. Ouch, to say the least.

I am assuming that the bullets that you were considering were from a 7.62x54. If that is so you will need to double check them against your barrel. Most of those bullets that I found in this caliper are .311-.312 in diameter whereas a M60 barrel is in .308 so you may need to draw them down to avoid high pressures. LEE makes a great tool for this and they are reasonably priced, CH4D makes one as well. Higher price but better quality. I did this. I bought bunch of 7.62x54 rounds for a Mosin Nagant. But every cartridge was over pressured. When I broke them down I found rust in the powder so I saved the bullets and loaded them in a 308 for plinking and fun loads. Every one of them were showing pressure signs but I knew the load data was correct. When I found out that they were .311 in diameter it dawned on me what was going on. Now I draw them down, load and shoot them without any pressure signs.

Until you can get the tooling that you need, it looks like you are going to have to have some accurate reloading techniques. I would suggest that you pay http://www.accurateshooter.com/ a visit, a wealth of information on competition reloading and all manner of reloading information.

As far a swaging a bullet into a different shape, the advice that you have already been given is dead on. Some bullets can be changed into a different profile with great results, others on the hand not so much. Steel inserts, forget it, load an accurate load for you rifle and learn the ballistics.

There is a wealth of knowledge here on the forum that is available all you have to do is ask. The folks here have always helped out.

[atiq]

@algunjunkie, yes I have been to I have read a lot in past few months and been to accurate shooter, rifleman's journal. Have Brian Litz book, and what I get is that unless good tips available reloading won't do good to me. I am absolutely sure that all of you guys here on forums who are shooters ... there cannot be more better or selfless friends possible.

BUT need ideas about how to do it when NO possibility of competition grade ammo / tips available. Making a die will not give me competition bullets but it will teach me ballistics as well as what happens with different factors. Maybe some years down the lane I may get some tips or Corbin dies but I should be capable to appreciate the quality and research that corbins have done.
Anyways I spent a good half of the day today going through corbin's site and its sister site swage.com. I will upload pics of the tip that I have and maybe cut it apart as well for posting here.