.45-70 using 457122 cast bullet for elk?

[GregP42]

Hey guys,

I finally after years of trying got drawn for a cow elk tag here in Kentucky. I am thinking about using my 45-70, what I want to know do you guys think the 457122 would do the job at around 1400fps? I plan to not shoot farther than 150 yards as that is as far as I can keep them in a pie plate off hand.

Thanks for any thoughts you guys have,
Greg

[Chill Wills]

Deer, yes. Elk, no. The hollow point is a liability for the larger game. If that was your only bullet and NEEDED to use it, making a short replacement pin so you end up with a flat point would work much better.

Better still would be a Hornady 350gr at least and a cast bullet of 400gr or more is better still. I live in elk country and tho the best elk hunting near me is not in my area I even have huntable elk at the house. I only mention that as I have been around considerable dead and wounded elk.
Not saying you could not kill an elk with the 457-122 - you likely can - just saying there are better bullet choices. I hope this helps and good for you on getting the draw. I hope you have a great hunt!
Michael Rix

[6pt-sika]

See if you can scrape up a copy of the Ranch Dog 460-425GC mold . That would be my suggestion .

[Ramjet-SS]

that combination will kill an elk. broadside on a feeding elk at 100 yards or less will out meat in the freezer no doubt.........do you know how many buffalo fell to a load similar to that? enough that were almost extinct ......... yikes

I have taken bull elk with a 44 mag handgun 240 grain HP and 300 Grain cast at lower velocities.....just saying.

[TXGunNut]

See if you can scrape up a copy of the Ranch Dog 460-425GC mold . That would be my suggestion .

NOE's not making that one...yet. He does make a version of RD's 460-350 that my rifle likes very well but I'm thinking a 405 like the 457193 would be better.

[GregP42]

I have the RD 460-350, it shoots so so out of my Marlin, I have some 405s, but no mold to make more anymore. The 457122 has been my goto bullet for the last few years taking deer, that is the main reason I was wondering if it could take an elk if I did my part, but I also want a bullet that will do the job if something goes wrong.

Thanks guys time for more research :)

Greg

[NVScouter]

I'd ditch the HP. Ant .458 FN of 300g (minimum bearing surface) at 1400-1700 will do fine.

Why go marginal on a tag you've waited years for?

[TXGunNut]

I've never understood why the Gould boolit was a hollow point, why expand a boolit that starts out at .458? JMHO, of course. If mine dropped a little bigger I'd consider replacing the HP pin with a blank one for a flat or slightly dished one.

[Chill Wills]

I've never understood why the Gould boolit was a hollow point, why expand a boolit that starts out at .458? JMHO, of course. If mine dropped a little bigger I'd consider replacing the HP pin with a blank one for a flat or slightly dished one.
From what I read - the Gould bullet was designed for the game found in New England and worked well for the purpose. At the time of inception Black gun powder was the fuel and so the lighter weigh and HP would be fine on the < 200 lb game.

[TXGunNut]

From what I read - the Gould bullet was designed for the game found in New England and worked well for the purpose. At the time of inception Black gun powder was the fuel and so the lighter weigh and HP would be fine on the < 200 lb game.

I've read that as well. Seems even back then we had solutions for non-existant problems. Also read it had quite a following among 45-90 shooters of the day. My 45-90 doesn't read much. :-( Most reports over the years are quite good but when has a 330grn or larger 458 cal boolit been a poor performer on deer sized critters? I guess I'm just not much on HP's. In some designs they help balance the boolit or more often bullet but getting the alloy right for an effective HP seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Once again, JMHO.

[JackQuest]

GregP42

Just dropped you a PM. Let me know - just looking to cover shipping cost.

[MT Chambers]

The Gould has a HP because it is the best cast boolit for deer, for bigger game I'd use a heavier flat point and you could drive it as fast or as slow as you want, I'd opt for one of LBTs big boys.

[6pt-sika]

NOE's not making that one...yet.

Don't want a NOE copy , I meant find one of the Lee/Ranch Dog 6 cavity in 460-425GC .

[GregP42]

Don't want a NOE copy , I meant find one of the Lee/Ranch Dog 6 cavity in 460-425GC .

I wish I had bought one when I got the 460-350, but I didn't think about it at the time. If I see one of the 6 gang I will have to try and buy it if I can find the money.

Greg

[sharpsguy]

I'm with Chill Wills. The Gould is too light to give the penetration you want ON ELK. The hollow point makes it even worse. Do this: Get a Lyman 457121PH bullet and run it 1200-1300 fps. This is a flat nosed 480 grain bullet that will cycle through a Marlin 45-70 or 1886 Winchester like it is greased, and it kills like Thor's Hammer. I used this bullet in Africa in 2010 in my 45-70 Sharps at 1240 fps, and have also taken elk and bison here with it. It shoots through both shoulders of a 2000 pound bison bull and has low recoil to boot at this velocity. An elk is a big animal and can be hard to put down. This is a load that is up to the job. Sometimes I wonder why I even load and shoot anything else.

[wgr]

what rifle are you shooting this out of

[StrawHat]

How big do Kentucky elk get?

It seems like any reasonably accurate 45 caliber boolit should work. But...I have never tried it. If you have doubts start at 400 grains and go from there.

[ammohead]

Dance with who brung you. My God people elk aren't made with AR plate! People have and still do quite regularly take elk cleanly with 50 cal muzzleloaders and round balls. One heck of a lot lighter and softer. Check with Waksupi on this one. Cast your gould boolits with ww and water drop them, and I doubt the hollowpoint will expand much if any. Especially at the velocities you mention. If I had a gould and a 405 rcbs I would opt for the 405. But you surely don't need anything bigger and the gould will do just fine. In fact if you are using a marlin 95 the gould is probably more accurate. It is in my cowboy. I carried it with gould boolits year before last on a cow hunt with goulds. I just wasn't lucky that day.

[elk hunter]

I've taken quite a few elk with my 45-70 Siamese Mauser loaded with all the 3031 the case would hold and a home made 368 grain jacketed bullet or the 350 grain Hornady round nose and one with the same load but with an 350 X bullet. I recovered many of the above bullets in the elk which of course means the elk died and I recovered them. They all worked, but if I had a choice I would rather have had a little heavier bullet as where I hunt it's brushy and I want an exit wound that leaks.

I have shot lots of the 330 Gould bullets from my 500-450 ahead of 56 grains of H4198 for practice, but if I were going to hunt with them I'd drop a lead shot in the mould to close the hollow point pin hole and shoot them as a solid. The ones I've cast that way are a few grains heavier and I don't have to worry about the hollow point expanding or blowing off as I wouldn't want either to happen when shooting elk as I want penetration out the far side. In a lever gun you would need to file the shot down flat to the meplat so it couldn't set off a primer ahead of it in the tube.

Just my thoughts based on my experience.

[6pt-sika]

I wish I had bought one when I got the 460-350, but I didn't think about it at the time. If I see one of the 6 gang I will have to try and buy it if I can find the money.

Greg

You might also try the RD 460-350GC again . I dunno what you size at , but I use a Buffalo Arms custom made .462" sizing die so I remove little if anything from the as dropped bullet . Personally I'd have no qualms shooting that bullet if you can get it to stay inside 1 1/2" at 100 yards . And I'd make it from plain old wheel weights and water quench .

[Trinidad Bill]

I'm with Chill Wills. The Gould is too light to give the penetration you want ON ELK. The hollow point makes it even worse. Do this: Get a Lyman 457121PH bullet and run it 1200-1300 fps. This is a flat nosed 480 grain bullet that will cycle through a Marlin 45-70 or 1886 Winchester like it is greased, and it kills like Thor's Hammer. I used this bullet in Africa in 2010 in my 45-70 Sharps at 1240 fps, and have also taken elk and bison here with it. It shoots through both shoulders of a 2000 pound bison bull and has low recoil to boot at this velocity. An elk is a big animal and can be hard to put down. This is a load that is up to the job. Sometimes I wonder why I even load and shoot anything else.

Wow... that is a monster boolit...

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-blackpowder.php?entryID=2

What charge are you using with this?

[sharpsguy]

I use that bullet and load in a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45-70 and a couple of Shiloh Sharps in 45-70. The load is 36 grains of 3031 in the Marlin and 66.5 grains of 3f black powder in the Sharps.

[Trinidad Bill]

I just may have to give that one a try in my Browning 1886. I like big slow boolits!

[NVScouter]

Too bad Lyman says its speced to drop at .453/.456 instead of .459 or .461



Wow... that is a monster boolit...

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-blackpowder.php?entryID=2

What charge are you using with this?

[sharpsguy]

Mine come out at .456, and it is not a problem. My Sharps have barrels that are .450/.458 and that bullet is lights out accurate in all of my 45 cals. 45-70, 45-90, and 45-110, the bullet doesn't care. It just goes where it is supposed to, and IT DOES NOT LEAD. My only 45 lever gun is a 45-70 Marlin Cowboy, and the bullet works in it as well.

I actually think that being a little under groove diameter may be an advantage, as it lets the bullet upset to the correct size to fit the particular bore rather than being squeezed down and shoved up in it. Whatever the reason, I have been shooting this bullet for at least 15 years and have had better luck with it across the board than any other bullet I have shot. All I can say is don't knock it until you try it.

[TXGunNut]

I wish I had bought one when I got the 460-350, but I didn't think about it at the time. If I see one of the 6 gang I will have to try and buy it if I can find the money.

Greg

Michael talked me out of the 460-425 as the 460-350 was better suited for Texas game. He was right, of course. Elk is another matter, suspect the 425 will do a little better than the 350.