Sharps paper cartridges

[Nobade]

I am about to start making paper cartridges for my '63 Sharps and I have questions for those who have done this before. Mainly, how big in diameter should they be? It uses .540" boolits and the chamber is .628", so obviously small enough to chamber. But how small? Would rolling them on a 9/16" mandrel work? I would think so but I don't want to leave too much air space in the chamber.

Since the boolits I am using don't have tails on them I am planning on loading them by themselves and then putting the powder cartridge in behind it. That way I don't have to figure out how to attach the two and don't bother the lube on the boolits. The end toward the boolit base will be folded over, the end toward the back will be capped by a hair curler paper. I think it'll work fine just wondering about the size if anybody here has experience with these things.

Also thinking about making a blow tube for this rifle. I've never heard of anybody doing that, but for best accuracy I have been wiping out the throat between shots to get the boolit to fit the throat properly. Seems a blow tube works for cartridge rifles, maybe it will work to keep the fouling soft in this Sharps and allow the next boolit to seat properly in the throat. The chamber will have fouling in it to deal with, but if I make a blow tube with enough clearance and a light O-ring seal near the front it ought to work I think. Might save having to wipe each time. Any thoughts there?

Thanks,
-Nobade

[Fly]

Nobade have you ever used these tube loaders?There the coolest deal.
It loads bullet & powder as fast as loading a shell.There cheap also.

http://www.shelltube.us/HowWorks.html

Fly

[Hickok]

I have a Pedersoli Sharps Berdan "Paper Cutter" in 54 cal. My mould is the Christmas tree mold from Moose Molds, .544" at the rear band, .531" in the middle band and .523" on the front band of the boolit, weighing 482 gr with 50/50 lead/ww. I use Charlie Hahn's tubes, that fit over the ringtail base, with 50 gr 2ff Goex for right at 900 fps.

Load shoots +5" high @ 50 yards, dead zero @ 100 yards, 2 inch groups for five shots. Kills deer with complete penetration, through and through.

Just about every Sharps "paper cutter" chamber is a different length, so you will have to experiment to find the right cartridge length. My cardboard/paper tubes made by Charlie Hahn are 1.5" in length.

[Hickok]

http://hahnmachineworks.com/html/PaperCartridge.html

[nhrifle]

I made cartridges for mine using tracing paper and a 5/8" dowel as a form. Cut the square of paper, roll around the dowel, and glue together with a glue stick. Be sure to leave somewhat of a tail on the end of the cartridge to aid in loading, and don't forget to blow the powder off the breech before capping and firing.

[Hickok]

http://moosemoulds.wix.com/mm2013#!sharpsxmas/chez

[mikeym1a]

maybe not what you want, but an idea or two;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As0PQU2ksxM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8WYSHZraW0

[Grapeshot]

I used to shoot with N/SSA and had a .50 caliber Shiloh Sharps Percussion Carbine. Great gun and I made my own cartridges from both nitrated paper and nitrated cotton sheet material, (old bed linen).
To start out I got the correct paper cartridge kit from Dixie Gun Works. It included a mandrel that was the same diameter as my bullet, a small pad of nitrated paper and a glue stick.
I found out the hard way that the best way to make the cartridge was to make the tube the length of the chamber so the end would be flush with the breech end of the barrel.
To do this so you DO NOT have a tail to shear off when you close the breech block is to add this step.
Once you have your paper/linen cut to the proper length and width take a one inch square of silicone eye glass cleaning tissue. (I use this because it is stronger than TP and super thin.) Apply the one inch square to the end of the mandrel and form a cup. Fold it against the mandrel and apply glue from the glue stick on one short end of the precut paper and along one edge. Take the precut paper and lay the unglued side against the mandrel making sure that the glued short end is applied against the silicone paper cup on the end of the mandrel. As you wrap the paper around the mandrel snugly the glued edge will overlap the precut paper and form a tube with one end closed.
Put this aside. Repeat these steps until you have as many as you want or need.
Once the glue is dried, pour in a .7 cc Lee dipper full of 4Fg or 3Fg. This is your ignition charge. Then pour in the amount of powder you plan to use leaving enough room to seat your bullet into the tube. At this point I would run a bead of Testors model airplane glue around the circumference of the paper/bullet juncture.
After letting everything dry, I would load them into the chamber and thumb them in until the end of the cartridge was flush with the breech.
Close the breech block and put the cap on the nipple.
When the trigger was squeezed, the hammer would fall setting off the cap.
The fire will then pierce the silicone paper and ignite the ignition charge which will ignite the main charge. Somewhat like the bag charge in modern day 155mm howitzers. The Nitrated paper would be consumed and leave nothing in the chamber but some ash. I never had and burning embers using the nitrated paper. If you don’t use the nitrated paper, you risk having glowing embers in the chamber that could ignite the next cartridge you chamber. That is not fun, especially in the heat of competition when you are shooting in a team match trying to cut a pole in half before the other team does.
When done like this, I never had a misfire with my Sharps.
Nitrated Paper and Bed Sheet Material:
I used typing paper that had a 25% rag content and old sheet the wife was going to throw out.
I cut the sheet into 8.5 inch x 11 inch sheets. Using a ball point pen and a straight edge, (a steel 12 inch ruler is best) I would draw lines that, when I cut the sheets later, would give me the correct size rectangles to form the cartridge tubes. Be sure to use a pen that has waterproof ink.
I used a large Pyrex casserole dish to put the sheets (paper or cotton) into it and boiled up 2 cups of water in a separate sauce pan. Buy a new one so your wife doesn’t have a fit about ruining her cooking utensils. As the water boiled I added Potassium Nitrate I got from the pharmacy and poured it into the water until I couldn't get it to dissolve any more. I then poured the super saturated solution into the Pyrex dish and let it sit for a half hour. This gave the sheets ample time to absorb the Potassium Nitrate from the super saturated solution.
After the solution cooled, I took the sheets out and hung them in the shower to dry. Once dry, I smoothed them out on a smooth plastic cutting board and cut them to the correct size for my carbine.
I stored them in an airtight/water tight ammo can until I was ready to make them into cartridges. I stored the completed cartridges in the same ammo can in a small plastic container that I bought at the Grocery store that were sold to store leftovers.

[Nobade]

Thanks guys! The method Grapeshot describes is pretty much what I have settled on to use. My chamber is a hair over 5/8 dia., so I am using a 9/16" mandrel to roll tubes. I got some hair curler papers to make the end caps, they look like they'll work well. I tried some cartridges last weekend made out of plain notebook paper, and the cap fired through that paper with no problem so I think I'll be set with the much thinner ones I have now. I am using the Moose France boolit with no tail on it, so initially I am going to try making seperate powder charges and load them behind a naked boolit. I haven't figured out a good way to attach the boolit to the cartridge in a way that won't either mush the lube out of the rear grease groove or be so fragile that they spill in my cartridge box. I do have a ringtail mould, but that Moose boolit is so accurate and pretty I would rather use it if possible. So again, thanks for the tips and keep them coming!

Oh, we shot that rifle ('63 military rifle, Farmingdale Shiloh) out to 500M last weekend. It was boring at 200M, so started shooting the hanging steel at 500. Once we learned where to hold it wasn't hard to keep hitting the plate. Impressively accurate rifles, easy recoil using 65gr. FFg powder plus 1.9cc COW filler to get the powder to the end of the chamber. Plus no brass to clean up when I got home! I am really liking this rifle, but need to spend a lot more time with it.

-Nobade

[doc1876]

Nobade, when I get home, I will take a copy of my paper pattern for you. It is correct 1863. I have been using the cut off method for over thirty years (mainly blanks for CW) and have never had a miss fire. If you fold trhe top of the paper over the end of the boolet, it enhances the whole shootin match. they tie with a thin black thread.

one thing I have to stress is that when cleaning, take the forearm off, as loose powder will collect there. If not addressed, you can blow the forearm off in you hand. and use #2 axel grease on the breach ring so it does not stick to the breach block

Steve

[Hickok]

Glad to see you have a Moose Mold. There are great people to deal with and make outstanding molds for the Sharps!

Like Grapeshot, I have tryed paper, bedsheets, etc nitrated in my Sharps and they all work. Coffee filters work well and really soak up the nitrated solution. Unnitrated paper works great, but sometimes a small bit may be left in the chamber. I always check my chamber before loading another round, dont want any hot embers in there.

Go to Home Depot and get some "Spectracide Stomp Remover" as it is potassium nitrate. One bottle will last a long time for nitrating cartridges!

Pick up some wooden dowels and rasp/sand them down to the proper diameter you need for a paper cartridge form.

Contrary to other BP firarms, the Sharps does not need a completely packed chamber without an airspace to be safe. As long as your paper cartridge length places the end of the cartridge up tight against the breechblock when inserted so the fire from the cap pentrates the cartridge, you are good to go. The paper cartridge itself can be smaller diameter than the chamber AND as long as the powder charge fills the paper tube it is still safe. Fillers can be used to entirely fill the paper cartridge when smaller charges are wanted. As long as the cartridge is correct length, the powder is at the back of the cartridge,and the cartidge touching the breechblock, is all that matters, airspace in the chamber of a Sharps paper cutter is safe.

Airspace in the chamber of any other muzzle loading firearm IS NOT SAFE.

I repeat so all can see: AIRSPACE IN THE CHAMBER OF ANY BLACKPOWDER MUZZLELOADING FIREARM WITH BLACKPOWDER OTHER THAN A SHARPS PAPER CUTTER IS NOT SAFE!!!!

[Hickok]

105099


My home brewed Sharps Cartridges.

First, brown shopping bag.
Second, nitrated bedsheep, ala Sharp's linen cartridge.
Third, Charlie Hahn Tube,
Fifth, blue note paper

Foreground, a Charlie Hahn cardboard tube for Sharps ringtail.

No lube on boolits, as this will be done prior to shooting

[doc1876]

if is did this right, there should be three rolled ctdgs , and one pattern for the rolling, I am unable to find my copy of the original roll pattern, but this is real close. I found some 10 lb brown paper that really worked great, (we accidentally made it at work years ago, and I took all I could carry) It cuts real nice, and then there is no need for the nitrated and all of that other stuff. I do understand that the nitrated is easier, but I never had one not go bang this way.

[Grapeshot]

one thing I have to stress is that when cleaning, take the forearm off, as loose powder will collect there. If not addressed, you can blow the forearm off in you hand. and use #2 axel grease on the breach ring so it does not stick to the breach block

Steve

Doc1876, I agree if you use the "cutoff the tail" method. If you use the "TUBE" method that doesn't allow for loose powder to accumulate in the forearm you won't have any problems like you described.

[doc1876]

Grapeshot, I have never used the tubes, just know what I do, and that is good to know. My problem is I have 400 rds still loaded from several years ago, and am going to have to use them before I go to another "experiment", Thanks for the info tho, good to know.

[Fly]

Great info above.But guys I still like the plastic fill tube I posted the link above too.
Simple & easy.But hell I,m known to be lazy (wink)
Fly