Slower powders and lever cartridges!

[andym79]

Hi guys I like to shoot 165GN RNFP cast from my 30-30. I have had reasonable success with my 30-30 using fast rifle powders such as H4227, H4198 and H4895, but I do not like the fact that the cartridge is so empty!

Has anyone had success using nearer to full cases of slower powders like H4350 or H4831?

Also in the 38-55 for 245GN RNFP cast bullets, has anyone had success using nearer to full cases of powders like H4895 or H322?

Finally in the 375 Win for 245GN RNFP, cast bullets, has anyone had success using nearer to full cases of powders like H4895 or H322?

My lee reloading manual seems to suggest these might be good powders, so far I have only been using my Lyman manual for loads!

I have noted of the years however a trend toward ever slower powders for cast. None of the modern manuals seem to suggest red dot, green dot or unique for a lot of cast loads anymore!

[Tatume]

Yes. I use very slow powders with cast bullets. I give up a little speed, but I can still manage 1800 fps with most cartridges. Less is usually satisfactory.

[andym79]

Yes. I use very slow powders with cast bullets. I give up a little speed, but I can still manage 1800 fps with most cartridges. Less is usually satisfactory.

1400-1800fps is just fine for most of what I want. What loads are you using?

[KirkD]

For your 30-30, I use 30 grains of IMR 3031 under a 150 grain RCBS GC, which fills up the case very nicely. The only thing to watch for, particularly in the straight-walled cases is that if you go too slow, you may start getting unburnt powder grains if your load is too light.

[Shuz]

I have used H-4831 with cast boolits from 150g to 180g in the .30-30. Works well and the velocity is in the 1700 to 1800 fps area depending on boolit weight.

[runfiverun]

34-36 grs of the 4831 will fit depending on which one you use.
I use some old mil-surp stuff and 34 grs touches the base of a 311041 and gives me right at 1800 fps in my 20" model 94.

[FergusonTO35]

I'm interested in this because the slower rifle powders are the only ones consistently in stock around here. One place has a bunch of H380 and I wonder if it would work well for j-words and boolits in .30 WCF.

[andym79]

I have used H-4831 with cast boolits from 150g to 180g in the .30-30. Works well and the velocity is in the 1700 to 1800 fps area depending on boolit weight.

That's interesting to know, so with a 165GN cast I could expect about 1750 fps (I would just have to use my gas check single shot projectile!).

[Shuz]

That's interesting to know, so with a 165GN cast I could expect about 1750 fps (I would just have to use my gas check single shot projectile!).
I'd say you'd be somewhat in that ballpark, but of course you know the old admonition about every gun being different etc.
Boolits I've chrono'd with 34g of H-4831 have been the Lyman 311291@183g and the Lyman 311440HP @ 146g.

[andym79]

I have a Lee manual that states H4350 compressed 35GN charge with a 170gn projectile, it states 1837fps! That's exactly the sort of thing I am looking for with my 30-30.

The odd thing about the Lee manual is unlike Lyman its has list for e.g. XGN Jacketed bullet, XGN lead bullet and XGN bullet, I have always steered away from the last as it ambiguous! Should I be working on the assumption that XGN bullet is applicable to lead and cast?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
My rule of thumb with cast is to use the slowest powder I have to achieve whatever velocity I want.
Plus I plan on using a bit heavier boolit to "encourage" good slow powder ignition and better burn. That heavier boolit makes up in mass what you loose in velocity giving good penetration.
Then if you want a good exit hole think on using a softer mix. I find 50-50 works very good for hunting up to 1800 FPS. Makes one nice exit hole that leaks nicely. You probably will only fire one round so any minor leading means nothing.
Mike in Peru

[andym79]

Any more thoughts on H4350 or H4831 in the 30-30 or 375W?

[Larry Gibson]

andym79

I think you'll find that 28 gr of H4895 under that 165 gr bullet to be an excellent load in the 30-30. It also will fill most of the case. You might need some "counseling" to get over that phobia of "I do not like the fact that the cartridge is so empty" and this is the right place for it. Instead of jumping all over this forum and another one with the same basic questions why not try a little practical experience with the 3 powders (H4227, H4198 and H4895) you have? They are all very good powders for use with that 165 gr cast bullet in your 30-30. Try them, you just might like them as do most of us.

If you're really queasy about it then get some H4350 and fill the 30-30 case to the bottom of the case neck, seat a 165 gr cast over it and go shoot it. You're not going to get enough H4350 in the 30-30 case to have pressure problems with a 165 gr cast bullet.

Larry Gibson

[andym79]

andym79

You might need some "counseling" to get over that phobia of "I do not like the fact that the cartridge is so empty" and this is the right place for it. Instead of jumping all over this forum and another one with the same basic questions why not try a little practical experience with the 3 powders (H4227, H4198 and H4895) you have?

Larry Gibson

There is an element of truth in that Larry, I do keep asking question relating to air being bad and I am probably boring a lot of mebers with it. I have however used a lot of H4227 and H4198 in my 30-30 so far! I just believe a load that fills the case has got to be better in terms of consistent burn, pressure and velocity.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Case filling loads are usually, but not always, better groupers...well in terms of jacketed and high power rifles. Cast is a different critter. Its often a matter of ignition, or how constant the ignition is that gets cast boolits herded into small areas of target. Fast powders that ignite easy and don't have powder position variances can do really well with cast boolits. Not only do you get a uniform burn, but you get a low muzzle pressure. That often means more than air space in the case.

[FergusonTO35]

If I could choose just one powder for my lever actions it would be IMR 4895. Sadly it has been extinct here for a long time so I've been making do with others, both slower and faster.

[Trinidad Bill]

30gr of 3031 seems to work well for me in the 30-30 (170gr GC) and 38-55 (375449 275gr GC) or 10gr of Unique in either.