safari rifle ergonomics: problem with trigger guard and middle finger

[Whiterabbit]

I'm getting.... accustomed to the recoil in the shoulder and head. OK.

I am having an insurmountable problem with the trigger guard slapping my middle finger under recoil. Due to the stock shape (CZ550 American stock) I cannot grip the stock in a way that lets me get a powerful grip with my middle finger to keep it off the trigger guard.

So it hurts very much, and my finger swells up like a balloon after a few shots.

I have come to the conclusion that I cannot 'practice' my way out of this one. I need to do something to the hardware.

I can't be the first one to deal with this, and selling the gun is not an option. What's the normal way to keep the trigger guard from slamming into adjacent fingers?

Shooting glove isn't gonna help. Tried that route already.

[Von Gruff]

I had the fingerpiece cut off on my 404 Jeffery trigger and moved to the back of the trigger guard.
This was before as the rifle came together
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/404%20Jeffery/404Jeffery042_zps688a6fef.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/404%20Jeffery/404Jeffery042_zps688a6fef.jpg.html)

And after the regrafting of new fingerpiece further back in the triggerguard.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/404%20Jeffery/404Jeffery010-1_zpsfe76e37a.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/404%20Jeffery/404Jeffery010-1_zpsfe76e37a.jpg.html)

[Stephen Cohen]

I guess you have a relatively small hand and cant get a good grip on the pistol grip, if so you may have to do as I did with a couple of my kickers. Take a rasp and files to the pistol grip area and make it a smaller diameter and you can also open the pistol grip a little, this will get your fingers back away from the trigger guard. Have a look at the stocks on some of the fine old English rifles and you will see what I mean. I would also epoxy a piece of all thread down through the pistol grip after slimming it down. You could also checker or stripple the grip to give you a better hold. I will be doing this again myself soon, that's if my permit to acquire ever gets here for my 458 wm.

[swheeler]

In the late 1980's I had a m98 in 458 win, it had a forend mounted swivel stud, big no-no. With full house 500 gr Hornadys it would imbed the stud in my left index finger and smack my middle finger on the right hand. It was also equipp
ed with Rem 700 sights and after a few shots the rear sight elevator would slide up the ramp until you were off target. I removed the forearm swivel stud and filled the hole, marked the rear sight for 100 yd zero and loktited in place, and put a piece of half inch mil surplus sleeping pad on rear of trigger guard with contact cement. Looked goofy but a lot less painful:) Now I just load 500 gr cast down to 1800 fps and enjoy a painless day(different rifle in a Ramline stock right now), doubt a deer or elk could tell that 500 grainer is 2-300 fps slower.

[BruceB]

It was common practice in British shotgunning circles to have a cushion of some sort on the back of the trigger guard on double guns. I believe that such cushions were actually commercially available.

This was due to the double triggers on most side-by-side shotguns, and the need to reposition the hand forward to use the front trigger.

The front swivel base should DEFINITELY be on a barrel band and not screwed into the fore-end where it will chew up one's hand. Brownell's likely has such barrel bands, and installation is simple.

[Hardcast416taylor]

A friend of mine has a .458 Win. Mag. Rem. model 700. He got bit on the fingers about the same as you are having done to you. He solved this problem to bring relief to his little hands.....HE had ME work up and shoot his test loads!Robert

[NVScouter]

I have the CZ550 Safari and its pleasant to shoot in 375H&H. I like the fat pistol grip, it positions my trigger finger a bit off to the side.

What caliber are you shooting? and how different are the Safari and American stocks? You might be able to get a Safari stock and call it done.

[swheeler]

510 Wells I believe

[HollandNut]

I have the Safari Classic 458 Lott and found me a European CZ550 hogback stock , much better IMO .. Hogback works better with irons to boot

[Whiterabbit]

unfortunately, I agree, but too late. tried a hogback in a store AFTER I bought the American, fit so much better (the euro stock). They are on clearance at CZ, I'll have to buy one. But for now, that's a no-go. My hands are long and spindly, not small at all. Just cannot get a good grip.

I'll try the foam pad.

[waksupi]

Unfortunately, the only cure is to have someone restock the rifle who understands stock design, and dangerous game rifles. I've been involved in building over 250 rifles designed for African use, and none of them beat the knuckle. Using some Dr. Scholl's (sp) foot pad squares cut out taped to the rear of the trigger guard is the only other relief.

[dubber123]

Would taping your middle finger help? My .475 F/A beats mine up and the sharp guard cuts it as well. A couple wraps of a cloth medical tape helps a bunch. My hardest kicker is my CZ .416 Rigby, 400 gr. at 2,595 fps., so not in league with the recoil from your .510 I imagine. I got mine before the American stock was available, and the Euro stock seems ok recoil wise. Good luck.

[Fishman]

unfortunately, I agree, but too late. tried a hogback in a store AFTER I bought the American, fit so much better (the euro stock). They are on clearance at CZ, I'll have to buy one. But for now, that's a no-go. My hands are long and spindly, not small at all. Just cannot get a good grip.

I'll try the foam pad.

What exactly is on clearance and where?

I have been after a 550 full stock in 9.3x62 but they are nowhere to be found.

[Whiterabbit]

oh my, if they had a full stock on sale I would be all over it like flies on.... well, you know.

No, it's a standard stock, magnum action, euro cheek piece, with F-block, nothing else. On clearance from CZ. Just the stock.

[Artful]

I'm thinking you need to get a little material behind the trigger guard to move your fingers down lower so not hitting "the Wall"
http://glock.pro/attachments/training-tactics/4867d1374420394-revolver-grip-lefties-revolver-grip-1.jpg
Something along these lines
http://smith-wessonforum.com/members/paladin85020-albums-some-random-smith-wesson-photos-picture6380-registered-357-magnum-revolver-holy-grail-many-s-w-collector-carries-serial-number-46511-registration-number-306-appears-have-6-barrel-equipped-s-w-grip-adapter-gold-bead-front-sight.jpg
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1388/10534023/tylergrip%20%282%29.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

Something to force your finger down in a slope instead of dead into the back of the trigger guard
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/sci03.jpg
http://www.sitemason.com/files/b1Jf1u/Sidler%20flintlock%20OU%20rifle%20a.JPG

More like THIS
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hJ66ongUovM/UfbTafBPpFI/AAAAAAAAAKc/DnJ7sAheQSA/s1600/1-IMG_0057.JPG

A nice little buffalo horn ramp would be just the ticket!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aJSSVQfC4Hg/TDeG5651JCI/AAAAAAAAAl4/J1KywHEOknc/s1600/BTP+Brno+avatar.jpg
Col. Jeff Cooper's BABY - notice modified trigger guard on it.

[Whiterabbit]

I was just thinking something like what is on my flintlock would be really nice. Not sure who that would end up looking though. Not sure how I could solder anything to the trigger guard either and make it look anything better than a rifle abortion, also.

[Whiterabbit]

Unfortunately, the only cure is to have someone restock the rifle who understands stock design, and dangerous game rifles. I've been involved in building over 250 rifles designed for African use, and none of them beat the knuckle. Using some Dr. Scholl's (sp) foot pad squares cut out taped to the rear of the trigger guard is the only other relief.

What's the cost on a field grade custom stock? full stock, full bed, either Schnabel ends or ebony (ie nothing fancy), cut checkering but can be basic pattern as long as it is sharp, etc.?

Plain wood, ruler straight grain, but old growth, tight bands.

[Artful]

Whiterabbit refresh your screen and looks at the picture I added

[Whiterabbit]

man, Ive seen that picture at least 2 dozen times, from the day I dreamed of building this rifle to the present day having built and owning it. Never noticed the trigger guard. of course it is obvious now why he did that.

[Artful]

Now if it was me, I'd look into to making a quick trial with some two part epoxy putty and see if it does what you want then talk someone into making it in Buffalo Horn like Col. Cooper's :drinks:

[Fishman]

That mod on "baby" looks slick. I don't see why someone couldn't fab that out of micarta or antler or whatever matches your setup.

[scarry scarney]

I bought some "bumpers" for a shotgun from Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing. They have two styles. One uses a screw to hold the bumper in place, the otherone has little L shaped arms that hold the bumper in place. Should work for a rifle as well as a shotgun.

[andrew375]

I have the same problem with my mosin and k31, even cast bullet loads leave the back of my finger torn and bleeding. The solution I use is to place my middle finger under the trigger guard. Another solution I've seen is to stick a pad of foam rubber on to the back of the trigger guard.

[Nobade]

Check out these guys:

http://americanhuntingrifles.com/?page_id=74

I like their stock a lot better than the American one, much more open pistol grip so you can get your hand out of the way.

Brockman's also has an interesting one:

http://www.brockmansrifles.com/other_access.asp

But I have never seen it in person. I also like the McMillan one, it too feels a lot better than the CZ factory stock. Thinner grip and through the mag area, and more open.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

when I get ALL the 'startup issues' sorted out with this rifle, and a solid workingman's journeyman shooter, I will be buying the AHR 3 position bolt. What a lovely refinement.

[DougGuy]

My full house loads in the Rugers beat the middle finger knuckle really bad. I use 2-3 wraps of that 1" wide spongy looking medical tape that sticks to itself, problem solved..

[Whiterabbit]

tried that with 40 layers of masking tape, no go. I'll try the ramp when I can get two minutes on a weekend to rub together....

[swheeler]

Whiterabbit; have you seen the OD green sleeping mats? They are made of some kind of high density foam that stands up forever, takes contact adhesive very well and sure feels good on the back of the middle finger. I guess a black one, if they make them, would look better;)

[Whiterabbit]

OK, haven't been able to get out shooting for a month, wife was extra awesome on Sunday night and I got out Monday morning. I had built up layers of closed cell foam on the stock to test the ramp idea.

It's a total go. It fixes everything. Everything.

So, unrelated, I'm having tang issues with this stock, and it chipped out. So long story short I 'get' to replace this stock. Ramp integration can be a major part of the renovation. A permanent fix to the proof of concept.

What's the simplest way to get it done in the most bulletproof possible way, do you suppose? The solution cannot weaken the wrist (wont put a screw into it), and above all else takes a ridiculous amount of abuse via recoil so must be bombproof. How would you attach a ramp, and make it out of what to achieve the desired result?

[Col4570]

A friend lent me a S/S Boxlock shotgun and it battered my middle finger.When I compared the stock length with my guns it was almost 2 inches shorter therefore my hand was forced forwards and the Middle Finger was in contact with the back of the Trigger Guard.Try lengthening your stock at the Butt Plate it might take the guard away from you finger.I remember the painfull swollen finger after the 50 Bird Shoot,all due to one of my Firing Pins giving up the ghost.

[fouronesix]

I don't pretend to know much about such things as the art of stock fitting but do absolutely know that the very complex geometry of the firearm and stock and how it reacts to recoil and how both of those interact with the various body types of shooters "drives the system" so to speak. I too would play around with length-of-pull by adding (temporarily attached of course) thicknesses of butt plates, spacers or extensions. The thing with dangerous game rifles and stopper rifles is that they are not so much designed for comfortable shooting but are primarily designed for quick mounting and fast pointing. Sometimes, the two may not be the same.