It seems the three amigos are missing?!?

[Sweetpea]

Don't tell me we lost some more good, long-time members...

[Hamish]

(Prolly play in' possum,,,,,,)

EDIT: I take that back, they've prolly falled in a vat o lube an drownded,,,,,,

[runfiverun]

nope,,,,, busy time.

[geargnasher]

Who is John Galt?

Gear

[Artful]

Uno, Dos, where's btroj?

[oneokie]

In Nebraska?

[45 2.1]

Uno, Dos, where's btroj?

Probably having a good discussion......................

[Love Life]

Uno, Dos, where's btroj?

Taking a breather.

[geargnasher]

Probably having a good discussion......................

......somewhere else.

Goodbye, folks, it used to be fun learning and sharing here but the atmosphere has turned from the small, friendly town that Ken & Co. created to something akin to the 8-mile. To those that have helped me through the years, thank you, I remember you even though most of you no longer post, or are gone. I hope I may have returned the favor to a few others along the way. I tried my best, anyway.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Gee whiz, gear. Hate to see you run off.

Bill

[Artful]

Detroit's 8-mile? I have noticed a change but I don't find it that bad - especially compared to some other site's I visit. Gear - take a break then come back and see what you think... To me all the sites go up and down and it depends upon peoples mood's as well. Some days I'm just a grouchy old man I guess. To any I have abused I apologize to you, it's not my intention to discourage anyone in this hobby.

[Elkins45]

......somewhere else.

Goodbye, folks, it used to be fun learning and sharing here but the atmosphere has turned from the small, friendly town that Ken & Co. created to something akin to the 8-mile. To those that have helped me through the years, thank you, I remember you even though most of you no longer post, or are gone. I hope I may have returned the favor to a few others along the way. I tried my best, anyway.

Gear

I would hate for that to happen. I have learned a lot from you.

[Love Life]

Enjoy your time off. For everybody who may be freaking out, all the info is out there. All that needs to be done is some good old fashioned trial and error.

[btroj]

Oh, I'm around.

I just decided to keep my discussions amongst people who are willing to keep an open mind. I have actually learned much about making better bullets via email discussions.

Love Life is right. If people got out and cast, loaded, and shot more with eyes and mind open they would learn far more than they will here.

[Love Life]

Did you buy a Glock yet?

It's kind of bittersweet loosing all the great minds. On the one hand, huge resources of info that could be tapped are lost. On the other hand, maybe more people will put more than 10% effort into something and actually do some of their own research and testing.

I want to know something? I go do it an learn it. I see all to often that people want the goodies that others earned through trial and error.

Kind of a bummer, but it is the nature of things.

[btroj]

Nope. No Glocks. I did discover that a CZ75 isn't near as easy as a 1911 to tear completely down. That trigger spring is a real PITA!

Anyone know if Gunscubber or break cleaner is hard on the black poly coat used by CZ?

[Love Life]

I broke a Webley Mark IV down to bare bones today. It is a very good example and had mucho cosmoline and stuff on it. It shoots very well even with low power (sooted cases) ammo with undersized boolits.

No worries. I have some .362 boolits, starling brass, and some Unique. It's gonna be a fun summer. Now I just need an uncut .455 version and perhaps a Colt New Service in .455 as well....

[Love Life]

Nope. No Glocks. I did discover that a CZ75 isn't near as easy as a 1911 to tear completely down. That trigger spring is a real PITA!

Anyone know if Gunscubber or break cleaner is hard on the black poly coat used by CZ?

I'd put some on a Q-Tip and try it on a not obvious spot. I wish I could help but all I use is Hoppes #9 for my handguns. Long guns get the Butch's and that WILL take of Krylon.

[btroj]

I'm thinking that a spray cleaner would get the grunge out of the action without needed a tear down. Reduced effort thru chemistry!

[Love Life]

I'd use something that flashes off fast and then blow it out with air.

[btroj]

That is what I'm thinking. Maybe even carb cleaner or starting fluid?

[Love Life]

Don't smoke while doing it. You'd look awfully funny with no eyebrows.

[.45Cole]

Sounds horrible, but I use gas on tons of stuff (inc. tools). If you are after getting oiled gunk out, then you would want to use something a little heavier than carb/break cleaner. Maybe some acetone.

[Recluse]

Goodbye, folks, it used to be fun learning and sharing here but the atmosphere has turned from the small, friendly town that Ken & Co. created to something akin to the 8-mile. To those that have helped me through the years, thank you, I remember you even though most of you no longer post, or are gone. I hope I may have returned the favor to a few others along the way. I tried my best, anyway.

Gear

*Sigh* I do know the feeling. . .

:coffee:

[Sweetpea]

Boy, I started this thread to draw them out, not to post goodbyes...

[nhrifle]

Polymer safe Gunscrubber might do the trick nicely for you.

[slughammer]

Nope. No Glocks. I did discover that a CZ75 isn't near as easy as a 1911 to tear completely down. That trigger spring is a real PITA!

Anyone know if Gunscubber or break cleaner is hard on the black poly coat used by CZ?

No idea how I found this thread and no idea about the gun scrubber. But you need to take a finish nail and make a slave pin for that CZ75! I had my 1911 apart about a gazillion times in the last20 years, but the CZ kicked my butt until I made a slave pin for the trigger and torsion spring.

[OeldeWolf]

I hope this does not sound stilted, I just tend to be more formal at times.

The forum HAS grown a lot. So has the hobby, and the sport of shooting. Growth is necessary, to ensure their continuation. So it is not as small a community as it has been in the past. But just my luck: Becoming disabled finally allows me to work on casting and shooting, and many of the most knowledgeable are leaving.

Well, Good Luck to those leaving. Maybe you can set up another, smaller forum somewhere? But I hope you drop back in. You will be missed. You as persons, not just the knowledge and expertise.

[geargnasher]

Did you buy a Glock yet?

It's kind of bittersweet loosing all the great minds. On the one hand, huge resources of info that could be tapped are lost. On the other hand, maybe more people will put more than 10% effort into something and actually do some of their own research and testing.That's not quite it. Those who would put in more than 10% effort, or whatever personal effort it takes to get what they want, already do. The rest aren't likely to improve, even after there are no more minds to loot. When some else won't do it for them, the whining, demanding, and threatening begin. You know how this works.

I want to know something? I go do it an learn it. I see all to often that people want the goodies that others earned through trial and error. I see it too, but here's the rub: Some things take a lifetime to learn on one's own, if one is sharp enough even then to learn it. That's why there are teachers, books, and tools like this forum. Before the written word, a person's knowledge was limited to what they could learn on their own in one lifetime. Once data could be recorded and shared and built upon for generations, the knowledge available to anyone was only limited by their effort to research and the power of their mind to comprehend and retain it. A good teacher will not work at gunpoint, nor will they respond to demands without payment. Fortunately, teaching is it's own reward, so those who know more about something are often willing to share with those who know less but are gracious and willing to learn on the teacher's terms. Another reward of teaching is to learn something new, or find flaws in conventional wisdom, from a sharp pupil. To put it in context, there are things about shooting cast bullets that I doubt you will figure out on your own in the next ten years of trying that some people could set you straight on in ten minutes, or maybe you can find in a few evenings of choice reading. Teaching and sharing for mutual benefit used to be the foundation of Castboolits, and I have benefited greatly from that and in turn contributed in my own way as I could. That, unfortunately, has changed. I have reached the point that my own learning curve has become quite steep again, but the sort of things that I'm interested in learning are not known by very many people anymore who are willing to share in a climate such as this forum has of late. I tried very hard to gather those minds again for a purpose, to resurrect what had been lost here, to move forward above the static, but in the process I discovered for myself the reasons why most of them have quit, and why their knowledge is so elusive. Those reasons are far greater than things like the entitlement mentality or laziness among the general membership here. So, I hope you can learn what you desire on your own, because that's where you're going to be without good teachers, or the published works of good teachers to shorten the curve for you. At least you have what has been written, if you know where to find it. The going and doing for yourself will sort any chaff you run across from the wheat very quickly. There will come a time when you will need a teacher as I do to decipher the "books" or some problem to which you cannot readily find the answer. To that, I'll quote someone who said "when the pupil is ready, the teacher will arrive."

Kind of a bummer, but it is the nature of things.

Yes, that is the nature of things. There is an even worse part to the nature, though. I call it Evil. Evil is the willful destruction of knowledge; the bombing of classrooms and burning of books, so to speak. Remember the times throughout history when books were burned, by what sorts, and why. Think about that really hard the next time someone tells you your accuracy is suffering because your twist rate is too fast for the velocity you're shooting.

There is only one way to defeat this sort of evil, and that is for the good to take refuge while evil runs its natural course and consumes itself to ashes. I am taking refuge until such time as things are changed. Don't think this is easy for me, or that I'm just temporarily upset. I truly love this place and am saddened to see it go the way that it has. I have spent tens of thousands of hours here both absorbing information and dispensing the best I know, and most of my posts are long and in-depth, always seeking truth and trying to clear up an abundance of bad information. The comraderie and friendship here has been outstanding in the past, and I'm grateful for that too and sorry to leave behind the better of you that remain. I'll still be around from time to time to check on my friends or check PMs unless someone gets a wild hair and bans me or something, but I'm taking a long break from giving any ammunition to the wrong side. Now everyone knows the full reason for my leaving and probably why many others have, too, and I don't want any more fuss about it, please.

Gear

[btroj]

There are some who feel that everything that needs to be known is known. These people do all they can to fight change and obstruct open discussions about pushing the envelope.

[mainiac]

Yes, that is the nature of things. There is an even worse part to the nature, though. I call it Evil. Evil is the willful destruction of knowledge; the bombing of classrooms and burning of books, so to speak. Remember the times throughout history when books were burned, by what sorts, and why. Think about that really hard the next time someone tells you your accuracy is suffering because your twist rate is too fast for the velocity you're shooting.

There is only one way to defeat this sort of evil, and that is for the good to take refuge while evil runs its natural course and consumes itself to ashes. I am taking refuge until such time as things are changed. Don't think this is easy for me, or that I'm just temporarily upset. I truly love this place and am saddened to see it go the way that it has. I have spent tens of thousands of hours here both absorbing information and dispensing the best I know, and most of my posts are long and in-depth, always seeking truth and trying to clear up an abundance of bad information. The comraderie and friendship here has been outstanding in the past, and I'm grateful for that too and sorry to leave behind the better of you that remain. I'll still be around from time to time to check on my friends or check PMs unless someone gets a wild hair and bans me or something, but I'm taking a long break from giving any ammunition to the wrong side. Now everyone knows the full reason for my leaving and probably why many others have, too, and I don't want any more fuss about it, please.

Gear

Come back and read ya pm,s........... this is how i operate on this site. Ive been here since the beginning,and learned from the start,that if i wanted to learn/know something,i would pm certain people that i respected there opinions.That way,tempers dont flair,and a person can get the info there looking for,enjoyably.

I dont post much,but i love to come on here a read,but when im intrested in something,the pm function is my best friend.

Ive seen alot of very knowlegable people leave this site,and its a shame.Dont know where/why they left,cause im not "in the loop",but its a sad thing. You fellers thats doing the work,makes for good reading,,please dont leave!

[Maven]

To "Los Tres Amigos," I am very sorry to read about your difficulties and once again, about the rude, uninformed, and downright nasty replies that have almost become the norm around here. I certainly can understand why you'd want to post less or withdraw entirely, but DON"T LET THE ******** WEAR YOU DOWN!

All the best,

Paul

[btroj]

Maven, as one of the old breed you certainly understand.

I still lurk and will post some but the overall quality of discussion just isn't the same.

[Bullfrog]

I too like many come here for insight, friendship, and to escape the "real world". Over the years I have met many people and found this site full of big hearted and kind folks. I have shed a few tears over a few members passing this world until we meet again. I have encountered those that push my limits and caused me to disconnect too. I find that for me personally I can ignore them because the benefit of knowing you all is better than the option of googling everything again, only to be lead back to this site for answers. That is how I found this site when inquiring about casting to begin with. As for the evil I do not believe that this round is going to go away and it is going to destroy this once fine nation. It is with this in mind that a friend badgered me into becoming a 4H leader to salvage what kids we can and expose them to the truth of what matters in this world. To be honest it has been this site and those kids whom have gotten me through a rough patch in life lately and still encountering more things daily it appears. However, I just got outta a conversation this morn with a few fellas and my "batteries" are re-charged again to face the challenges again. I have spoken with Ken on a couple of occasions, and most notably when he donated a 50 hawkins to the club, and I can understand his angst to some limited degree. It is hard when the creation spins out of control from intention. Fellas, you all have been a blessing to me, my family, the 4H kids, and I will always hope that God, family, and country prevails. This is MY social media where I can be me and no one judges me and only gently tells me I am wrong or re-directs my thinking process. Folks here had solidified and finished talking me into being a muzzleloading leader and have helped me through the learning process, of which I am still very much learning. My hope is that with all the negative things the positive will outweigh it all because after attending the 4H meeting with over 70 kids signed up for our chapter only about 8-10 showed up and my heart sank. Nintendo or whatever has more influence than getting out on a farm and learning to shoot, hunt, can food, and learn not only business practices, but how to be a really good person in society. Heading to church in a few to thank God for my family, my wife in particular, and thank him for the wonderful Mom I have. Gonna say a prayer for you all and everything you have done. God Bless

[Pb Burner]

" I hope I may have returned the favor to a few others along the way. I tried my best, anyway. Gear"

Yes you did Gear. You have helped me learn and understand a lot of details in this hobby. You have given me detailed help through PM's even though I was new here and you'd never heard from me before. And I have learned lots from your forum posts as I'm sure others have also. You have are wealth of knowledge and have a talent for explaining things so people can understand them(at least for me).
I hope you take a break and come back to public posting. If not I understand as I've seen big changes here even in my short time as a member.
Either way Gear, hang in there!
Burner

[Brett Ross]

As a 2-3 year member, I read every day and post rarely. I can't speak as to what the site used to be, but will miss all the knollage which appears to be fleeing. I do hope you all reconsider, as I owe my meager succes casting, loading, shooting and hunting, mostly to the many hours reading this site. You old hands probably do not hear this enough, but THANK YOU
Tony

[Digger]

As a 2-3 year member, I read every day and post rarely. I can't speak as to what the site used to be, but will miss all the knollage which appears to be fleeing. I do hope you all reconsider, as I owe my meager succes casting, loading, shooting and hunting, mostly to the many hours reading this site. You old hands probably do not hear this enough, but THANK YOU
Tony

Bret Ross said it well , can not give enough credit to those with so much knowledge that have helped so much.
THANK YOU !!

[Doc Highwall]

Gear, I hope the lube thread will not die without your input.

[PbHurler]

I don't know what's brought all of this about, and maybe I shouldn't.

I'm a newcomer in relation to a lot of you "founders", but I've enjoyed reading, learning and being sometimes confused by the depth of discussions on this forum.

I do respect anyone's desire to take a break, especially if they feel the forum's taken a turn they do not wish to follow, that's their decision and I'll respect that.

I hope these gentlemen will reconsider when (if) they're ready.

Don't be strangers, I have valued your experiences and look forward to the possibility that you'll return.

Thank you for making me think (some more).

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

We, in the gun hobby realm, are a different breed of cat.

If you spend time conversing with those people at shooting competitions, shooting leagues, or even the gunshow veterans. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna explain it, but I can say that, typically, we are extremely opinionated and there is a higher percentage of us that are closed minded, then those in other hobbies.

WHAT"S MY POINT ?
For the issues brought up in this thread, we need to keep an open mind. We need to listen more and argue less, not necessarily talk/type less...keep the conversation going, but don't argue, don't make your point the only point.

I include myself in this description, I try to work at being better...sometimes I am successful.

[Bzcraig]

I haven't been around that long but have noticed that some need to learn to disagree without being disagreeable. Others need to learn that if you have a different opinion about a subject doesn't give you license to criticize another. A few need to learn to just keep quiet when their sole purpose is to stir the pot. I wished by current obsession would have begun many years ago that I would have had the opportunity to learn in an environment of sharing and encouraging. In the short time I have been here I too have noticed change.

[Cord]

I can honestly say that a single post by Gear a couple of years ago
gave me a sudden insight into mould temperature cycles,
inspiring me to try a new idea I had that has changed
the way I cast at a very basic level of operation.

Gear turned that light bulb on, for me to see something,
I am still tweaking the technique and I think of it every time I cast.

Gear especially, and others like him, have done more good than they know
for the quiet ones who observe from the sidelines.

I have never expressed my thanks to him,
and am glad I found this thread so I could.

Thanks, Gear, for everything.

[MBTcustom]

Id take a group of people comprised of vastly different experience and viewpoint all working together towards a common goal any day over seeking the advice of a guru. It's really nice to have a guy that has been where you are wanting to go (especially if that guy doesn't feel like taking his experience to the grave) but I wonder sometimes if you could ever really learn from one or two people as effectively as you could from many teachers and good old fashioned experience and collaboration.
I mean think about it, if the journey was really all that terrible, then the "gurus" never would have done it. They did it because it was enjoyable to do, and it would suck if you found all the answers before you kicked the bucket, because then you would drop cast boolits and shooting and take up some other hobby like building houses of cards or some other equally important discipline (Jenga block Olympics? Oh yeah, I'm so there!)
Point is, I don't want to read the end of the book, or have somebody hand me the answers on a silver platter. I don't mind a few little tid bits now and then that stimulate the mind from others who enjoy the journey, but that is very helpful and is what cast boolits was set up to be. Its here for free thinkers to get together and figure things out. Not to provide a place where like ego'ed people can get together and troll each other in mass, and not a place where you can put your feet up and expect to be made a guru. Excellent cast booliteers are not taught, they are self made. They buy their expertise with powder and lead, and no teacher can substitute for that.

[btroj]

Actually Tim many still would have done it no matter how difficult. It is a matter of doing what others say can't be done. It is about not accepting the status quo. It is about wanting to know more and fully understanding that learning can never truly have an end. It is about doing it because it needs doing, not because it gains you status or prestige. It is about knowing that behind every leaded barrel, bad target, or lump of flux that was to be lube there is knowledge and understanding about what didn't work.

People don't strive for knowledge because they want to, they do it because they HAVE to.

Doing simple things isn't very satisfying in life because it is easy. I would far rather fail 100 % of the time trying difficult things than succeed 100 % doing the simple.

Want to really learn? Then take on that which is deemed impossible. Do that which others say can't be done. THAT is where the real satisfaction comes from, knowing that YOU can succeed where others fail.

We need to stop talking about what can't be done and speak instead of what hasn't been done. Yet. Once we say it isn't possible then we have stifled the desire to learn.

Think about the things that are said to be fact. Question them. Ask why it isn't possible then attack the problem and never give up. I bet most of these "facts" are bunk.

Just because YOU can do it doesn't me that I can't. Let that become your mantra, then you are learning.

[Love Life]

Brad, wait until I put a polygonal rifled walther barrel on my rifle. Then I get to prove out something else.