do I need "Cookies"?

[doc1876]

I know I have been reading too much, so now I am confused. Are grease Cookies used only in Paper Patched, or are they also used in boolets with grease grooves?

[country gent]

Try them and see what effect they have on your load. Are you having issues with leading, hard fouling, loading? Some bullets carry more lube than others some cartridges burn more powder than others, and also important in this is barrel length a short barrel should require less lube than a longer one.
What caliber bullet combination are you shooting? What powder? Primer? all will have an effect on this.

[doc1876]

45-70 Sharpe's with a 28 inch barrel. just getting started so I guess I'll load both ways and see what happens thank you

[montana_charlie]

Generally you will see grease cookies being used when the barrel is long and the bullet doesn't carry much lube.
Dry, crusty fouling near the muzzle is the indicater there.

For a 28-inch barrel, I would be surprised if a grease cookie was needed.

CM

['74 sharps]

A grease cookie only helps the next bullet being fired. If you wipe the barrel between shots (works well for me), a cookie is not needed.

[doc1876]

this makes sense. I was using my phone to respond earlier, and it has as a mind of it's own. The barrel is 30 inches with a 1-18 (I am pretty sure) twist.on a Shiloh Sharps, but this should not be too much of a factor.
I am getting ready to make some 500+ gr boolits, that I have just gotten a mould for, so if not using the cookies is not a real big deal on grease grooved boolits, it will make life easier.
I am using CCI large rifle primers, and I am not sure of the brand of powder, as I have several that came to me over the years. I think it is either Swiss or Goex ffg. no space and compressed before the boolit is seated with little crimp.
I will be prepared to wipe if the blow tube doesn't work.
My son comes home for a week from Germany soon, and I plan on experiencing this with him then so I will have a report after the shoot date.

I plan on using a similar load with a 250 to 400 gr. boolet in a trapdoor carbine for my nephew. I just have to get him off of pyrodex and on the true black.

[country gent]

Pic up the The SPG manual. The Loading and Shooting the Paper patched bullet A Beginners Guide Both have alot of good information on loading Black Powder cartridges in them. WOrk slow and document everything, literally keep a note book on what you load and changes made, this will allow you to repeat the improvements and not what didnt work. The blow tube can make a big diffrence as it puts alot of moisture in the barrel keeping fouling soft. A good home made lube is Emmerts improved: 50% Beeswax 16 ounces
40% unsalted crisco shortening 12 ounces
5% canola or olive oil 2 ounces
5% anahydrous lanolin 2 ounces
Melt the beeswax in a double boiler and add the crisco, canola oil, and lanolin stirring and keeping liquid for 10 - 15 mins. I use cupcake tins for molds with the foil cups/liners (makes getting lube out easier). You can melt this and pour on a cookie sheet of hot water to the wanted thickness and let cool to make the lube sheet to cut the cookies from. Making a sheet 1/16" thick allows for a stack to be used to "experiment" with cookie thickness.

['74 sharps]

Don't forget to put a wad between the powder and the bullet. The Walter's vegetable fiber wads work great. I dip my bullets in beeswax + Crisco lube, and seat unsized in the case.

[doc1876]

74 SHARPS
I do know that there are some things that when someone tells you to do, you just do without any question, 'cause you do not want to find out the hard way why, so yes I do put a wad in there

[bigted]

don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in the works but consider this if you will.

that wad between the boolit and powder may or may not be of value to you in your load. I do it both ways and in my Winchester 1885 ... the rifle likes the Lee 459-405 HB boolit without any wad between it and the 68 grains of GOEX 2F powder ... sparked with a CCI 200 large rifle primer. my Shiloh likes the wads. my pedrosoli cant make up its mind if it likes them or not. my Ruger likes the wads. the trapdoor is good without the wads with a full 70 grains or the 2F powder. my marlin 1895 needs the wad ... so on and so on.

have to try both ways to see what your rifle likes and dislikes. many experiments to do to see what effects your accuracy and your expectations.

as for the lube cookie ... same thing as the wad ... experiment to see what your load combo likes and dislikes.

[doc1876]

Big ted, thanks. I will so some experimenting. everyone has been great here, thanks to all for the advice.
btw, my dad was Italian, and no one ever knew if he liked them or not also.

[doc1876]

ok, I took the son and grand kids out this week, and we shot up some lead. I was real pleased with the report of the Shiloh and the grease cookie loads. I had a nice star at the muzzle, and was able to get on target, even tho it was only 75 yards away. (TOO close). Blow tube worked well, I am still not sure if it was needed, but it was there, and so I used it.
Clean up went very quickly and easily. I shall re load, and do the other lube suggestions, and keep loads separate.
thanks again to all for the help

[doc1876]

countrygent,
I got ahold of Shiloh, and they had two paper patching manuals, Loading and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets, by Wright and another one that was smaller, so I ordered them, and had found a lot of good reading, thanks. I am hoping for this to be my ultimate goal.

[country gent]

Doc 1876,
I have both of those along with a few by Paul Mathews also. I perfer Wrights Loading And Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet A Beginners Guide to the one by Loomis. Read Wrights first as it is much more thourogh and explanatory. Loomis's is okay but not as step by step explained or explanatory.
There are many ways to make the sheets ribbons for grease cookies. SPG and soft lubes can be rolled out between wax paper with thickness spacers on each side with a rolling pin. A brownie sheet pan can be used also. Set pan on burner of stove pour 1/4" of water in it. Melt spg or desired lube in a double boiler. Heat brownie pan to steaming hot water. Pour melted hot lube in on water. The hot water accomplishes several things. 1) it allows lube to flow easier 2) it makes a true level surface for the lube 3) it keeps the lube hot longer allowing air to work out. Let cool overnight or if possible place in refridgerator for a few hours. Ounce cooled it can be lifted off with a spatula and set on a towel to dry. You can also buy or make a ribbon extruder from several sources BACO, Lee Shaver has one I believe. Trac of the wolf....... .
When I started I made a sheet of 1/16" thk spg so I could easily experiment with how much lube my 34" barrels needed. ( 1 cookie = 1/16, 2 cookies 1/8") ounce you know how thick then you can get set up to make what you need easier. Theres alot of usable lube in a cookie from what Ive seen it pretty much gets vaporized threw the bore. I see no traces or indications it made it to the patched bullet from recovered patches.
As for ease of patching bullets Paul Mathews show a Patching board that makes it much easier. I have modified mine with a rail and stop that makes it pretty easy to get identical bullets everytime. Using a dedicated paper cutter makes cutting patches much faster and easier.

[Larry Gibson]

Do you have milk? if so then Yep you need cookies

Peanut butter, chocolate chip or Oreo's work for me. ........

Larry Gibson

[Smoke4320]

cookkeeesss

yes

[doc1876]

you haven't lived until you sit down to a table with a full bowl of chocolate cookies, and a bottle of bourbon.....ah the days of my youth were so misspent.

CountryGent, yes, I did see both of those methods, and am looking forward to trying them, and yes I think Wrights is a real good bit of information for us newbees. I used SPG, and really liked the way it flows and works.
thanks