44 evans

[lowallman]

Looking for any info on 44 evans, loading, case forming, case dimensions.

[44Vaquero]

Here is a start for you:


http://www.leverguns.com/articles/blancard/evans.htm

[GRUMPA]

There's 2 different 44 Evans cases, 1 is the 44 Evens long and 44 Evans short. For the long they say use a 303 British case and form and use a lathe. The short they say use 303 Savage brass with pretty much the same procedure..

Either way you need a lathe or oodles of time on a drill press and file.

As far as using something other than what the book says would require some research. And right now time isn't on my side. Sometimes there is another parent case that can be used, but not always.

[salpal48]

I believe I have Original of Both Evans
44 Evans Old Model (Short)
44 Evans long
They are$20.00 each + shipping
Pm Me if interested

[44Vaquero]

I don't know what it is about old and obsolete firearms and cartridges that peaks my curiosity from time to time? One that always sticks in my mind is Thuer Conversion: http://www.1960nma.org/Conversions/The%20Making%20of%20the%20Centaure%20Thuer%2020Jun 13.htm

104347

An absolutely silly idea designed to circumvent the Rollin White patent. I would love to own one some day, just for kicks.

[ndnchf]

Here is a start for you:


http://www.leverguns.com/articles/blancard/evans.htm

I wrote that article about 30 years ago, I'm sure a lot has changed since then. I had Huntington make a custom reloading die set from a chamber cast of my new model carbine and Richard Hoch made a custom nose pour mold from an original Evans bullet. The correct bullet diameter is .419". Barrel groove size ran .427" -.431" in the 3 Evans rifles I had. Yes, I did say correct bullet diameter is .419". But with a very soft alloy bullet, they bump up and shooot accurately. I speculate that the reason for this appraent undersize bullet is to account for fouling build up at the chamber mouth. With 28 or 34 rounds in the gun, fouling build and difficulty chambering a round could be a real issue. These were not target rifles, they were designed for self defense on the frontier, and reliability was more important than accuracy.

Here is a new Evans NM bullet next to an original cartridge and a chamber cast.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/rsz_rsz_nm_cartridge_bullet_chamber_cast2_zps69a2b 588.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/rsz_rsz_nm_cartridge_bullet_chamber_cast2_zps69a2b 588.jpg.html)

[DrDucati]

Looking for advice about this mold design from BACO via CH4D:
196806

Now, the data I get for the New Model Evans is COAL 2.00". With my BACO-supplied cases, this mean seating the bullet to the top of the groove at the nose end. But this means you seat past the heel step in diameter. And then also it looks as if the grease groove and crimp groove are reversed. What's the point of having a heel if you are going to seat deeper than the wider part? This is confusing. Is it me, or is this a design flaw???

[ndnchf]

As I recall (and this is from 30 odd years ago), the 44 Evans short used a heel bullet similar to that BACO design. The original 44 Long bullet I showed earlier sized to .419" and a very soft allow is correct.

[StanWagenhals]

Realize this is very old thread but last posting was from last summer so this might help someone out there.

During my research on ammo for the old girl I found the .419 info too. Chamber cast indicated a .444 throat on this rifle so the idea of sending .419 rattling around down through there just didn't wash for me. I ended up starting from scratch, that is, start with a chamber cast and see what I could make that would shoot through it.

This rifle's chamber has a .444 throat and .445 neck, the barrel is .432 groove. Case length to neck is 1.54. The problem was trying to match up a reasonable jump to lands with a bullet length that would pass through the helical magazine. The bind point for bullets too long was right at the end of the helical where the bullet passes next to the top/side of the receiver.

My first attempt was using Buffalo's .44 American bullet which was 218g, .412 heel and .434 head. Used blue lube (hand rubbed) plus a dunk in Alox. The brass was made from .303 British. The cases I had ranged from .0135 to .0140 thick at the neck. Doing the math on that, these ended up a bit tight in the chamber, but function was OK. Best I can tell jump to lands is .080 with this bullet. Here are my notes:

1 - .303 Brit cut to 1.54
2 - turn rim to .510 and .060 thick; bevel rim 45* to .025 remaining (critical).
3 - use .420 expander
4 - FL die resize (CH4D)
5 - use .411 mandrel; polish neck to .442 Max.
6 - trim to 1.480 final length
7 - Buffalo .44 American bullet seat to 1.9735 OAL Max.

These were loaded with 9g Unique which produced 1276 FPS. Still use these from time to time since the brass is made specifically for this bullet.

About the time I was playing around with these I ran across a photo of about a dozen antique rounds for the Evans Long. There were clearly two case lengths and two bullet sizes in the lot. By blowing it up and scaling what I already knew, I figured out they made different case lengths for different bullet weights. Nose shape on all the bullets were the same though.

Armed with that info, the second time around I had a mold made by Tom at Accurate Molds. He still has the bullet designs in his catalog (43-281H and 43-301H). These have .419 heel and .434 head. I had him make a 2 up mold with one of each bullet. They ended up weighing 280g and 305g respectively. Rubbed in red lube with my fingers plus an Alox dunk. These bullets allowed me to use 445 Supermag brass which was a lot easier process to make. And jump to lands with these is closer to .020. The twist on this barrel is 12 so figured the heavier bullets would work OK. Here are my notes on these:

1 - cut 445 Supermag case 1.48 for long bullet; no cut for short bullet.
2 - turn rim to .510; bevel rim 45* to .025 remaining (critical).
3 - FL die resize (CH4D)
4 - expand mouth to .418
5 - trim case to 1.54 for short bullet; 1.422 for long bullet.
6 - seat either bullet to 1.9735 OAL max.

280g; 11g Unique; 1364 FPS - 300g; 10g Unique; 1235 FPS

The 280 grainer proved to be most accurate of the 3 but not by much. Either of these larger bullets are accurate enough at 50 yards. Function on all of these is not the same as popping out a half dozen through your model 94 Win. There seems to be a technique to it. Slow, gentle extraction (keeping track of the brass!) just wasn't working for me. I ran across an article that said ejection should be energetic. That inspired me to try a few things. What works best on this rifle is a bit of a flick of the wrist at the end of the ejection stroke. I practiced that a few hundred times and there have been no hiccups since.

I hope you guys can get something out of all of this. I've had a lot of fun with that rifle. And it always brings a lot of stares and questions at the range.

Luck,
Stan

[StanWagenhals]

Another thought just came to me. Seems I had problems with the CH4D die. When I used the seater die, it resized my bullet down to .432. I polished that out to .434 plus a skosh so it didn't pull the bullets back out during seating.

The only other problem I encountered with the process was lubing was a headache. A lubrisizer won't work for a heeled bullet, at least one that has lube grooves in both heel and head!!! For the quantity I was making I just sized them first, then rubbed lube in the grooves by hand. I also gave them a bath in Alox cut with mineral spirits. It was a mess but no leading observed.

Stan

[ndnchf]

Great info Stan, glad to hear you got the old girl shooting. They are fascinating rifles. While I no longer own any, the three I had gave me many hours of pleasure. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[StanWagenhals]

At 140 years old, this rifle looks terrible. Can't fault her for that - I don't look so good these days either and I'm not half of that! Inside, she runs like a Swiss watch. Couple little nagging problems to get it up and running... The trigger spring broke on the first round. I made 6 over the next 2 days out of various steel found around the shop. The one that finally worked was a piece of steel cut from a garden edging tool, like a shovel only flat - carbon content must have been about right.

The other thing was the magazine. I had made a number of dummy rounds to test function and the feed was very stubborn - a real herky-jerky effort to work them down the spiral. Taking it apart I found the leading edge of the helical was razor sharp - either milled that way or from wear. I took a piece of 600 grit paper to it to dull that edge a bit. That led me to discover the critical nature of the edge angle on the rim of the cartridge. First efforts were at 30*, then 40* and finally 45*; pretty hard to measure in there. I think the final jig was made at 46*. After those two fixes were applied I think it worked like Warren Evans envisioned it would.

Best,
Stan