RCBS #82080 [44-250-K] vs. RCBS #82044 [44-250-KT]

[GLL]

How do RCBS #82080 [44-250-K] & RCBS #82044 [44-250-KT] differ ? I started to buy one and immediately got confused !

Thanks,

Jerry

[Maven]

Good question! :?: My 1985 catalog only shows a picture of #82044, yet the 1994 Huntington catalogue lists them both, but sans pics. The difference may possibly be in the shape of the lube grooves: straight-sided a la Keith v. radiused for easier release from the mold. ...Maven

[C1PNR]

In my listing of moulds I have a 44-250-KT AND a 44-245-KT. Anyone ever heard of the 245 gr one from RCBS?

I'd pull them out and look for differences, but they are in deep storage, somewhere here in the storage unit, storage shed, or my in-house storage room. And thus unavailable. :x

[C1PNR]

Maven, are you a "Ham" operator? I'm just a "Tech" but occasionally get on the air, or did in CA.

[Maven]

WE, No I'm not. Are you referring to the "radio" with "sparks" in my new avatar? If so, what you see is the cab of my Alco S-4 switcher in an original Delaware & Hudson paint scheme. The locomotive has a radio which can transmit as well as receive messages, but the frequency is fixed around 160. ? -161.? It's handy when you're pushing against the train and can't see the last car or when the conductor tells you that you have 2 car lengths to stop so the car door & platform line up correctly. Btw, the pic was taken last Easter and the thing in my hands is a tiny Easter bunny. (I thought a more recent pic was needed on the new board.) ...Maven

[wheezengeezer]

rcbs#82043 and #82044 are not keith bullets.only the# 82080.go to the rcbs web site and look at the specs.the k bullet has a wider lube grove and a deeper crimp groove.

[Bret4207]

Ah- the D+H. A spur ran through my hometown to a mine way up in the Adirondack Mountians. My folks owned a local "watering hole", so railroaders being the guys the are us kids got rides occasionaly. Now it's just a 7 mile tourist excursion using a short section of that line. you'd think with fuel prices what they are there'd be more rail traffic these days.

[BCB]

Trp. Bret,
Concerning the rail traffic, you are indeed correct. I live in Western Pennsylvania and railroads have been used to haul coal for ever. Several of the tracks have now been removed and only a few remain. It is sad. But I think people in this country want to ride alone in their gas guzzlers for whatever reason. Trains have sure worked in Europe, but then again, gas has been very expensive over there as I remember from some time spent over there in the early 70.s...BCB

[AnthonyB]

Jerry, I have the 44-250K and believe it to be closer to the original 429421 than any other commonly available design. The 44-250K has the square lube groove and a very large, bevelled crimp groove. It is my favorite 44 boolit. Tony

[wheezengeezer]

i have read somewhere that the rcbs bullit is closer to elmers design than the lyman is.elmer wanted a wide full diameter front driving band.

[GLL]

Thanks for the information guys !

I was just given an RCBS stamped 44-250-KT in a box marked #82044. I will search out a copy of the 44-250-K [#82080] for use in my S&W 25-2.

Regards,

Jerry

[Lloyd Smale]

ill add to the confusion first i have the 245 kt and its a real good bullet in alot of my .44s i also have one marked 250swc and my buddy has a 250kt that i use i havent seen a 250k yet and wonder if its the same as my 250swc

[wheezengeezer]

sixgun,go to the rcbs website and look at pics and compare.maybe the kt was an old designation.they do have a 250 k and a 250 swc that are very different.

[AKtinman]

All this CAN be a bit confusing!

In "Loading the Peacemaker, Colt's Model P", by Dave Scovill, page 106...

"The RCBS 44-250-KT is a reproduction of the original Keith bullet with a flat-bottom lubrication groove. At my insistence, RCBS decided to come out with the mould, and I have the first mould and the drawings. It is the most faithful copy of the Keith bullet currently offered."

Scovill, in an article in Handloader Magazine, claimed that someone gave him some "original" Keith bullets, presumably cast by Elmer himself. Scovill approached RCBS and convinced them to make the molds.

A trip to the RCBS web site shows the "44-250-K" p/n 82080. This mold is the same as the one Scovill calls the "44-250-KT" and is pictured in his book.

Taking a look at "Sixguns by Keith", the 429421 pictured on page 286 looks slightly different from the Scovill version.

No wonder we're scratching our heads...

I had a Lyman 429421 bought new in 1977 (round grease groove and shorter driving band), and a recent 429421 with the square lube groove which is apparently more similar to the original Keith design, but it is still different from the 44-250-K(T) I bought when the mold first came out. They all shot well, or maybe the shooter shot equally poorly:)

HTH

[Irascible]

Somewhere on this websight are pictures of them together. I have RCBS 44-250K, a 44-250 KT and a different 44-250 KT also a H&G 503 which according to Keith was ordered made to his design as the other mold makers were constantly modifying his design. The 503 H&G is now being reproduced by NOE molds if you really want a Keith bullet. It is 265gr of wheel weight alloy and it is a beauty.
For my RCBS molds the newest is the 44-250 K (for Keith) it has a longer nose than the KT (Keith Type) bullets, also a wider crimp groove and a wider grease groove. The difference in the two 44-250 KT molds is in the front band one has a narrow front band the other has a front band that is of an equal width to the other two bands. The narrow band version looks an awful like a 245 SWC. Maybe it was stamped improperly?
The wide band 44-250 KT is my favorite in my 44 Specials while the H&G 503 gets the nod in my 44 magnums.