Dad's .22 Hornet varmint rifle

[Bert2368]

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-1826.jpg

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/IMG_2819.jpg


This rig was set up sometime around the end of WWII.

(Edit)
My brother sent me a scan of a picture of dad as a 17 year old with his brand new gun- he's the one NOT holding a muzzle loader...

Dad was apprenticed to an old gunsmith in Rochester NY for several years as a teenager- he did various scut work, sighted in guns for the old gentleman (who had old eyes, boy can I relate...) and generally hung out where there were interesting GUNS.

I know dad learned stock making, checkering, oil finishing, metal blueing, how to "stone" a trigger and the proper way to carry out lots of other minor tasks, he did all his own work and all the work on our guns when we were kids.

When dad enlisted in the USN at age 17, Spring of 1945- The old man built him this rifle. And then he retired.

I was never old enough to shoot (or touch!) this rifle while dad was alive. Last weekend, I decided I was old enough. I hope there isn't a new bump in the grass at the cemetery from dad spinning in his grave-

[RickinTN]

Very nice rifle there. I'm sure your dad would be proud you are shooting and enjoying it.
Rick

[snaketail]

Looks like a very nice rifle. I'm sure you dad was proud of that one - I would be.

[Mumblypeg]

That is absolutely beautiful! I'm sure your father would be proud for you to take it out.... after all.... old guns need to shoot off too !!!

[Bullshop]

Very nice rifle of the type I greatly appreciate. If I may suggest though, your shooting the wrong ammo. Few cartridges are better suited to cast boolits. I will wager it has a 1/16" twist barrel. I have a few good boolit designs for that twist and when you are ready to try I can supply samples. The Hornet is one that just begs for boolits!

[starnbar]

That rifle is a one of a kind your dad knew it would be you shooting it one day its one fine looking rifle.

[ajjohns]

That's a beautiful setup. I'm sure your Dad isn't gonna mind, he'll be proud of you. My Dad was in the Navy also from 44 to 46, Pacific side. I love the hornet, it's a fun gun to shoot all day long for pretty cheap on the wallet.

[DeanWinchester]

All the fancy whizz bang varmint blah blah made today pale in comparison. That's classy right there. People just don't shoot and/or build guns like that anymore. ....well 'cept 'round here. ;)

[Bullshop]

But but but it was fancy wizbang when it was built about 80myears ago.

[gnoahhh]

Very neat rifle! Do you know the name of the guy who built it?

[starmac]

But but but it was fancy wizbang when it was built about 80myears ago.

So true. lol

[Stephen Cohen]

What a great story, and a fine rifle as well. Rest assured your dad would be pleased I'm sure.

[Leslie Sapp]

it was fancy wizbang when it was built about 80myears ago

And it's still a fancy wizbang. Very nice, your dad had excellent taste in firearms.

[nekshot]

some guns are nice, that one is really nice and I am sure your dad approves!

[Bert2368]

Thanks for the comments-

Gnoahhh, I don't know the old smith's name. Mom doesn't remember- he must have been somewhat near "Kenwood" street in Rochester if dad got there after school without a car, though. Don't know the grandparent's street address to narrow that down any.


Bull shop, you swapped me for a couple of types of .224 cast boolets when you were all in AK a couple of years back! I shot those in the CZ 527 Hornet, but dad left behind a couple of types of cast- And I've picked up a Lyman 225438, a 225415 and another member made .225 mould from the folks here.

I've been loading and casting for the 22 Hornet about 4 years now, learned on my CZ. Got out the (cheap!) Prvi because I didn't want to use my neck sized only Remington brass reloads from the other rifle- Starting a different head stamp for the 1885 to keep me from mixing the brass up.

I'm not going to shoot the hand loaded rounds from the 1950's, I had to burn off most of dad's old powders as they were degrading (He had SR71?!, IMR 4227, Hercules 2400 and W296, I am still using the W296). I AM going to be using his old fired brass. His loading tool was a Belding & Mull "flat on the table" type press, which he got from HIS father. The reloading dies look hand made.

Dad had what look to be Lyman 225438 and 225430 cast boolets, a few loose and and a few loaded with labels saying SR71 and 4227. I didn't find any .224 moulds in his stuff though.

There is a sizer die, kind of like a Lee push through- but designed to have the slug pushed through with a punch and mallet. It's marked .226! And the (un sized) fired brass from dad's rifle WILL NOT chamber in my CZ .22 hornet. I haven't slugged the barrel yet, but it appears the chamber at least is "generous".

Here's some information on the rifle I put up a couple of years back, on "Ask Bert H."

The descendants of the barrel maker (CC Johnson of Thackery, OH) DID contact me, but only to tell me mice had eaten the file cards in a range of job numbers that spanned this rifle's barrel number!

The lower tang was modified to fit the pistol grip stock, the part that should have carried a serial number is GONE. Back then it didn't matter-



Rather than start a new topic, I've chosen to piggyback on this one-

I have received a custom rifle built on what I believe is a Winchester low wall action from my father's estate. It is .22 Hornet with a heavy round barrel marked with the caliber and "CC Johnson" "Thackery O." by the chamber. There is a marking of "Pat. Oct. 7th 79" on the receiver under where the lever sits. Where would the serial number be found? I can't seem to locate one. The rifle has a much heavier fore end than the commercial Winchesters I have seen, with a pistol grip stock with a prominent cheek piece suitable for use with a scope. Overall, the gun is in good condition with a few marks showing use on the stock, metal finish is very good and bore appears near perfect. My mother told me that Dad was apprenticed to a gunsmith in Rochester NY in the 1940's before he entered the Navy in WWII and his master had built this rifle for him at the end of his apprenticeship and then retired. I don't know the maker's name nor have I found any markings showing it. I have not tried to strip or disassemble it in any way yet.

The rifle came set up with a long tube scope with external adjustments. Scope is marked Lyman Junior Target Spot and 8x. It has the screw in dust caps, and appears to be in good shape optically and appearance wise.

The outfit also included loading tools, fired cases, jacketed and cast bullets, sizing dies for cast bullets and some VERY old powder marked SR71 that I destroyed due to deterioration (red fumes, rusting out can). Also a can of Hercules 2400, probably from the 1960’s.

I am supposed to give the lawyer for the estate values for dad's guns. I don't want to sell this... I WOULD like to assemble proper cast bullet loads and SHOOT IT. Dad apparently killed a lot of ground hogs in upstate NY and around Lafayette IN with this back between WWII and when the USN grabbed him back for Korea- After that, he went to college on the GI bill, got married and us kids put an end to his spare time for shooting.

I can try to get some pictures up if you are interested in helping me figure out what I've got here and how best to start using it. Thanks for taking the time to read this-

[Bullshop]

8.5gn 4227 (either brand) was an excellent load for my hornet with 45 to 50gn boolits. I got best accuracy with that load using the Federal #100 SP primer.

[Bert2368]

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-23.jpg

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-24.jpg

[bedbugbilly]

That's one beautiful rifle! I'm sure you Dad was smiling down on you when you were shooting it . . . probably saying "what took you so long?".

My Dad purchased a new Winchester 22 semi auto in 1957 - a Model 63. It was "his gun" and set in the gun cabinet with all of the other 22s and shotguns we used for hunting. But, we knew we weren't to use it. My Dad passed away about 18 years ago and my mother about 8 years ago. My brother and I split up the rifles and shotguns between us - the only one I really wanted was "Dad's Model 53". For a couple of years, I just cleaned it a couple of times a year but didn't shoot it as I sort of felt "guilty" because it was "his rifle". A couple of years ago, I took it out and put a box of cartridges through it - enjoyed it very much. Every time I look at it or shoot it now, I think of my Dad and what a swell guy he was - he lived for his kids. It's a source of many pleasant memories.

I'm sure your Dad's rifle is the same for you. . . . and I'm sure he's watching over you every day and is taking great pride in seeing you use his rifle and the memories it provides for you. There are some things you just can't put a price on. Shoot it and enjoy it . . . I'm sure he'd be happy you are!

[Bent Ramrod]

Bert,

The necksizing dies for the Belding and Mull reloading tool do indeed look "handmade." B&M was a pretty small operation. The knurling on the neck sizing dies can look pretty amateurish at times. So can the stamped numbers on some of the tooling.

Your drive through boolit sizing die is likely a Belding and Mull as well. It should be bright metal, knurled on top with threads on the bottom that screw into a black cast iron flange with two holes in it to mount on a bench. A hole would need to be drilled in the bench to let the sized boolits fall through and be caught.

That's a very nice specimen of a classic varmint rifle of the 1930's-40's vintage.

Your old powder might have been SR-80. That was pretty popular before the War.

[schutzen]

From the Rochester NY Business Directory for 1940:

Gunsmiths Felgner, Conrad C. 121 5th ST Towner, Richard 10 Arlington

This may give you an idea of who built your rifle. However, not all businesses were listed in some old directories. In some you had to pay to be listed.

[Bert2368]

schutzen: Thanks for the business directory idea-

I had tried searching a couple of different ways, found ad from 1940 for a place called "the gun shop" with Ed Watson doing repairs-

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%2023/Dansville%20NY%20Genesee%20County%20Express/Dansville%20NY%20Genesee%20County%20Express%201940-1941/Dansville%20NY%20Genesee%20County%20Express%201940-1941%20-%200040.pdf

They were offering an experienced gunsmith's services on May 10th of 1945-
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-1912.jpg

And then they were advertising to hire a new gunsmith on May 24th of 1945... Dad left for the Navy in Spring of 45 at age 17, right after graduating high school 1 year early.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-2282.jpg

Really too bad I can't ask mom, she got knocked down by a dog and broke her leg Thursday! Bad break, they had to use a lot of metal to put her femur back together, she'll be on pain meds for a while. Maybe in a few weeks-

[schutzen]

Sorry to hear about your Mom, I can fully relate to her predicament. I shattered my leg in '09. After four surgeries and enough stainless steel to build a small pistol, I can walk but it still gives me fits during weather changes.

A quick note about Mom and painkillers. If they gave her oxcotin (sp?) and she is not used to heavy painkillers, watch her closely. They gave me hallucinations that were terrifying. It scared me so bad I had my wife sit with me until they wore off and told her to flush them, I would do without. The doctor gave me a milder dose of percoset and I was fine.

Prayers for your Mom and her recovery.

[Bert2368]

Mom is doing fine, aside from being annoyed at body for slowing her down...

Family found this picture.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/IMG_2819.jpg

Dad and a friend identified only as "Tom", when rifle was new and Dad was just about to enter the USN. Tom's got the muzzle loader, dad has the Hornet.

[kopperl]

Beautiful rifle!
Your Dad sounds like a truly good man.

[doc1876]

oh yea, great family heirloom

[NSB]

One of the most enjoyable posts I've ever read on here. Very nice gun. Your dad sounds certainly sounds like he was part of "The Greatest Generation"....in a lot of ways. Thanks

[C. Latch]

That is a stunningly beautiful rifle, and an awesome story. Thank you for posting it!

[CLAYPOOL]

A very good tale for all here on the board. Mostly shot guns in Southern Illinois.

[bigted]

i have to say thanks as well for this post. i did not read it back when but am sure glad i read it now. nice post and VERY NICE rifle. those are the stuff dreams are made of.

[marlinman93]

A very nice old period varmint rifle, and it's great that it's still in it's varmint garb! So many of these old vintage varmint rifles were later considered blasphemy, and people tore them apart and returned them to original style barrels and stocks. A lot of the later varmint reworks have been lost, and these also are a piece of history that should be saved!
Some of the varmintized old 1885 Hi Walls were very poorly done, and aren't worth keeping original. But every once in awhile one shows up that's really high quality like yours, and they should be preserved for the beautiful custom work they represent.

[sthwestvictoria]

Great pictures. I particularly like the one of your father with his pipe smoking friend. My children love looking at pictures of the forebears and asking questions about them.