1500 rounds of .40 cal/Red Dot

[nicknack2]

guys new to reloading, got my hands on 8 pounds of Red Dot and 1500 rounds of 140 grain lead TC bullets... wondering on any ideas as far as load formulas for this combo...also have 200 rounds of 175 grain from a lee model which I'll load with 4.0 grains of Red Dot...

[rsrocket1]

If you start with 4.0g RD with the 140's, they'll feel pretty light. Maybe close to a 9mm round. You can easily work up to 4.5g and maybe a little more, but if they cycle reliably, no need to try to set any speed records and risk your gun. I think 4.0 with the 175's will be real good.

Red Dot will work in lots of calibers, just don't try to squeeze every last fps out of it. I will work nicely in most all handgun calibers in light to mid range loads.

[nicknack2]

Thanks for the advise, I'm not trying to do anything special just looking for cheap and safe way practice and fun plinkings...

[Lefty Red]

Can't remember the load, but I used Red Dot and a 175 bullet to make Power Factor in IDPA and really liked it! Nice shooting load.
Lefty

[35remington]

4.3 grains Red Dot averages around 920 fps from a Glock 22 using the 175 Lee and pretty much equals the velocity of white box Winchester 180 FMJFP's so can be considered a factory duplication load. Economical powder charge weight means it's a good choice for frequent use and the power level is not insubstantial.

Red Dot is a good choice for duplicating standard factory velocities in a number of non magnum handgun calibers.

[Love Life]

Do you have a reloading manual? Did you check the powder manufacturer's web site?

[nicknack2]

@ Love life...only had data for the 175 grain bullet that's is why I had to ask for the 140 grain...

[Cmm_3940]

Do you have a reloading manual? Did you check the powder manufacturer's web site?

As usual, Alliant isn't going to be much help with this. They don't list any red dot data for .40S&W.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=4

[Love Life]

I'll get out to the garage and check my manuals and post what I come across.

[jmort]

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
135 JHP Alliant Red Dot 6.7 1,280
Remarks: min. OAL (inches): 1.105; 33,200 psi
150 JHP Alliant Red Dot 5.9 1,155
Remarks: min. OAL (inches): 1.105; 34,000 psi


Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
150 Jacketed Alliant Red Dot 5.3 1060
Remarks: start load; compressed charge; min. OAL: 1.105
150 Jacketed Alliant Red Dot 5.9 1155
Remarks: NEVER EXCEED; compressed charge; min. OAL: 1.105; 34,000 psi

I got nothing for 140 grain Boolit but this will get you going.

[Garyshome]

I try to just get enough out of the cartridge to make it cycle every time, saves on powder and light recoil also.

[nicknack2]

I'm going to load 50 rounds this evening @ 4.0 grains and see how they cycle... you guy usually wash your brass after it comes out of the tumbler??? I was thinking about just blowing them with compressed air...using ground glass a s cleaning media...

[TXGunNut]

Ground glass? Compressed air? You're kidding, right?

[rsrocket1]

It's been a while since I chrony'ed my M&P loads so I thought I'd try it with the Red Dot loads.
4.25" Barrel, 1.115" COL (seated so that almost the entire bearing surface is below the rim), no sizing, just tumble lubed in 45/45/10 and case bell closed to vertical, no crimp. Winchester small pistol magnum primer. No reason or need for magnum primers, they are merely the SP primers I am using up at the present moment.

104607

[nicknack2]

@TXGunNut, no no kidding that is why I'm asking...

[nicknack2]

@ TXGunNut, ok may be I needed to say it better, it might have sounded as sandblasting with compresses air and ground glass media... I have 5 pounds of glass ground media 40/70 grit that I could use to tumble clean my brass then blow the media off with my compressor just to get the media off the brass...is that still bad??? if so, why???

[Cmm_3940]

Most of us who dry tumble use ground walnut shell or corn cob media. The purpose-made stuff comes with a bit of cleaning/polishing rouge mixed in. You can also get the plain stuff at the pet store as 'lizard litter'. A media separator makes things easier, but you can get by with shaking the tumbled brass through some sort of wire grate to separate the media from the brass. No further cleaning is necessary. Some newfangled highbrow cleaning methods involve tumbling with stainless pins or wet sonic cleaners. I've never heard of anyone using glass media.

See this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=11893

[TXGunNut]

Airborne dust from case cleaning is a bad idea. Most folks, including me, feel more lead is ingested from case cleaning and poorly ventilated firing lines than from casting or otherwise handling lead. I don't know anything aboout ground glass but I don't like the idea of getting it airborne either.

[nicknack2]

Tested my very first reloads... 50 rounds of .40 cal with 4 grains of red dot, 140 round (lead) and oal of 1.135...rounds were weak, very little recoil and both my H&K and my P99 failed to cycle properly... I'm thinking too little powder...

[xacex]

Get yourself one of those rock tumblers from harbor freight, and some s/s pins. A little armor all wash and wax, with a pinch of lemi shine powder in the water and they come out looking like new cases. Take the primer out first. Nice thing is you don't expose yourself to the lead dust. Forget about the glass, and air compressor. The pins can be bought on amazon, or one of the vendors here. You only need 2 pounds of them for the dual drum rock tumbler. This thing will clean way more cases at a time than a vibrating tumbler with corn cob in the same period.

[rondog]

Glass beads are too abrasive, that would wreak havoc on your dies, press and guns. Walnut and corncob are still abrasive, but organic and nowhere near as harsh as glass beads.

[AZ-JIM]

Ground glass? Compressed air? You're kidding, right?

+1 x infinity......
I dont even want to know what kind of health problems that could cause, getting that dust in your lungs or in your eyes.

That is all I will say about that.....

az-jim

[nicknack2]

10-4, picked up some walnut at the local pet shop, much easier and cleaner polished the brass really nice... glass almost destroyed my press...

[nicknack2]

"Tested my very first reloads... 50 rounds of .40 cal with 4 grains of red dot, 140 round (lead) and OAL of 1.135...rounds were weak, very little recoil and both my H&K and my P99 failed to cycle properly... I'm thinking too little powder... "

any ideas on the above???

[TXGunNut]

"Tested my very first reloads... 50 rounds of .40 cal with 4 grains of red dot, 140 round (lead) and OAL of 1.135...rounds were weak, very little recoil and both my H&K and my P99 failed to cycle properly... I'm thinking too little powder... "

any ideas on the above???

I believe your assessment is correct. Have you found any published loads for Red Dot in this cartridge for this boolit? The 40 S&W is not a very forgiving round, min and max are never far apart for powders it likes. It's also a very high pressure (for a handgun) round so there's little margin for error.

[nicknack2]

[smilie=b: well, I'm up to 4.5 grains IAW my Lee safety powder scale(not sure how accurate the scale is) my OAL 1.135, I'm debating to shorten the round to create more pressure or just adding more powder.
powder: Red Dot
Grains:~4.5g
OAL:1.135
Boolit: .40 cal, 140 Grain LTC

[TXGunNut]

Just be careful, my friend. I suspect the lack of published data may be due to wide pressure variations of this powder in this cartridge. Rather hard to sort this out without at least a chronograph.

[smokesahoy]

Fast powders in big cases go puff, puff, boom as you work em up. You are in uncharted waters here.

I certainly wouldn't load 50 at a time. 10 in each charge weight will be more than fine. I am at work so can't look anything up and no experience with red dot but I was just reading this thread and wondered if when I clicked on page 2 i would see a report of a kaboom.

Reducing oal just a tiny bit can have a massive effect on pressure. The correct procedure would be to drop powder charge back to base safe mfg load, reduce oal and then work up all over again.

Stay safe.

[xacex]

Small steps, small steps. You are doing fine, and asking questions. The bullet weight you are using is a little light. If you went up to a 175 and went back down on your powder charge your gun would probably cycle. Lee lists a load of 5.3 starting to 5.9 grains max for a 150 grain bullet so you are still a little light. You may want to go up to the starting charge recommended for a 150 grain which is 5.3 and see where that gets you with a cast 140.

[scattershot]

FWIW, my go-to load in the .40 is the 175/180 grain T/C bullet with 4.0 red dot. Great load, cycles reliably in anything I have shot it in, and pretty accurate to boot. I called Alliant to check on this load, and the tech there advised to not go over 5.0 grains.

No experience with the lighter boolets, sorry.

[nicknack2]

thanks every one for the great advise!!! here is a few more details...my P99 is running good on this charge already it is just my H&k that is acting up, where it cycles 7-8 rounds and then a malfunction(half ejected piece of brass with a new round trying to feed) or then run 12 rounds and the gun fails to lock to the rear, I have shot a few factory loads(federal) right after my own loads and I can see a difference on the recoil and even the bang, so I'm thinking I'm still low on the powder.

@ XaceX "Lee lists a load of 5.3 starting to 5.9 grains max for a 150 grain bullet" for what kind of bullet and powder is that?

" If you went up to a 175 and went back down on your powder charge your gun would probably cycle." I know, the thing is that I got about 1300 rounds left of 140...just don't want to throw them away.

[smokesahoy]

Find an oal that works in both guns with a dummy round. Start long and reduce as needed (place bullet in case that allows the bullet to slide with some resistance) with bullet just inside case mouth chamber it and gently allow slide to close. This is m max oal, shorten a tad for anomalies and measure it. Repeat in other gun. Take the shorter of the two numbers and this is the oal you will use. If on the long side ensure function in magazines by loading enough to fill each mag. Glock limiting length is from the magazine for instance.

So now you have a length that allows function in both chambers and both types of magazine with some room for error.

Now go back and load up 10 with minimum charge place in a baggie with a note that contains all the load info. Increase by .1 grain, 10 more, in sperate baggie. Continue this until you are up to max load. If your length is longer than book and you are comfortable, you can make some that go higher as you have more empty case volume than book was published with. Or contact manufacturer which would be a better idea.

Next time you can shoot bring a bunch of targets that are labeled for each load. Start shooting them off and take notes on the target when you are done. You'll notice the groups change considerably. First ensure function, then you'll run across accuracy, then you'll find pressure. Find a compromise between the last 2 categories after the first is met. There is your load. Next time you go shooting bring a bunch of this load and shoot a bunch to make sure the numbers are legit.

This is essentially what the books and old timers will say, but if you haven't read it yet there you are, and let's have an update:) those light bullets can be fun plinkers

[rockshooter]

I had to chuckle at loading 50 test loads- hope there is an inertial puller in the house. As has been suggested, 10-15 rounds will give you lots of information and save grief. Ask most of us how we know that!
Loren