reccomend a mold for the 450-400 3" NE cartridge

[Matt85]

id like to try and develop a cast load for my 450-400 3" NE double rifle so I can practice more. I figure its velocities are low already so I should be able to load cast to nearly full velocity.

its typical jacketed load is a .410" 400gr bullet at 2050 fps.

can any one recommend a mold that will drop a bullet suitable for this caliber? preferably a bullet of at least 400gr and using a gas check might be a good idea due to speed.

thanks all!
-matt

[Bigslug]

Looks like a job for Tom at Accurate Molds to me. The 41-400C in his catalog looks tweakable for your needs. What I would suggest is that you give him the dimensions for YOUR version of the 450-400 ( I understand there are several that go by the name) so he can ensure the crimp groove is in the right place for your neck design.

(Look out for tigers!)

[Matt85]

thankfully there is only one 450-400 3" NE, the other 450-400 cartridges have different lengths such as 2 3/8" and 3 1/4".

ill check out accurate molds, thanks!

-matt

[WARD O]

Be sure to know the twist rate in your rifle and match it with the mould - some of the old double are express rifles and are set up with slow twists and light bullets.

ward

[Matt85]

no worries there, the gun is new and is regulated for a 400gr Hornady DGX bullet at 2030 FPS. I have been shooting 400gr Swift A-frames over 75gr of W760 with great luck.

-matt

[snowwolfe]

Anxious to find out more about this subject as I have a Heym 450/400 3 inch that would love a good practice load.

[Matt85]

havent had a chance to pursue it any further yet. im still working up loads for jacketed bullets but i will have a need for cheaper bullets soon.

for the bullet to requlate properly it would need to have a similer length bearing surface to the bullets the gun is regulated for. in this case that means it needs a similer bearing surface to Hornady's 400gr DGX. my thoughts are to send a DGX bullet to a custom mold maker and have him use its dimensions to make a mold. the next challenge would be to find an lead alloy that will survive being fired at roughly 2050 fps without coming apart. reduced loads dont typically work in double rifles since the barrels are regulated to a set load and speed.

this all may sound like alot of trouble but if youve priced out a box of 400gr .410" jacketed bullets recently you will easily understand the want for a cast load.

-matt

[snowwolfe]

Could just follow the 75% rule. Use a bullet weighing about 300 grains with a 75% charge weight. Generally they are pretty close to regulating. But easy to draw them in closer if you up the charge or if they are crossing lower it till you get to the right point.
The 75% rule works pretty well for a lot of double shooters who are wanting a reduced load.

Another thing to try is Trail Boss with a lighter bullet. Adjust the charges and see where you are at. I tried this in my 450 NE double a few times with 350 grain bullets but then sold the remainder of the Trail Boss before moving and haven't been able to rebuy any more so my plans to continue were squashed.

[Matt85]

its funny, my double works the exact opposite from the method you just described. when I slow the bullet down it brings the impacts closer together and when I speed them up they separate.

I haven't had any success with bullets that had a different bearing surface then the DGX. for example I tried using Woodleigh 400gr RN SP with no success at all. no amount of increasing or decreasing the load seemed to change this. Swift A-frames have a similar bearing surface to the DGX so ive had decent success with them.

-matt

[snowwolfe]

Sounds like your rifle is a candidate to be re regulated. It simply does not make any sense why it would be opposite of all other doubles built.

The only way your impact points should separate if going to fast is if you already reached the point where the load is regulated and then you go beyond that. Otherwise, the slower the bullets go the wider apart they shoot.

[Bigslug]

its funny, my double works the exact opposite from the method you just described. when I slow the bullet down it brings the impacts closer together and when I speed them up they separate.

He're the $64,000 question: When they separate, are the bullets from the right barrel hitting left of the point of aim, or to the right and vice-versa for the left barrel?

I bought my father one of the Baikal SXS .45-70's last Christmas. This gun has a jack screw that allows you to add or subtract tension between the barrels. The muzzle of the left barrel is fixed in it's bracket, and the right is a slip-fit so that when tension is adjusted, the muzzle can bow in or out accordingly. We've found that at higher velocities (depending on the screw setting) the bullets can cross paths. This is due to the bullet exiting the muzzle before recoil has time to push the gun. Yes, we tend to think that since the barrels are offset from the line of the stock, the tendency is for the right barrel to pull right and the left barrel to pull left, and this is true. HOWEVER, we have to also think about things like how the barrels are angled, how quickly the slugs leave them, how firmly you're pulling in, what a mercury recoil reducer might change, etc...

All of that has been hugely educational for us - all the physics you pretty much ignore with a single barrel directly below the sights comes out to slap you in the face when you add a second tube. Lots of fun, but doubles will make your brain hurt.:veryconfu

[snowwolfe]

I currently own 4 doubles and used to own three Baikals. For sake of arguing lets assume a double with solid barrels came from the factory properly regulated with a specific factory round. If you are trying to match this regulation you start with a reduced load and generally it will shoot wide. Slowly increase the charge and you will watch the barrels start shooting closely to the desired point of impact. As a rule you would work on the load until you were getting a nice group at 50 yards without the bullets crossing. Double rifles should always be hand held with either your elbows resting on the bench or better yet, shoot from a standing rest.

With a double rifle that has adjustable regulation such as the Baikal or Valmet you can adjust the barrels to the load as long as the load is safe and accurate.

Most double rifle shooters agree the bullets should not cross at the distance you want to regulate. When you have a double built you can usually specify what range you want it regulated at and with what ammo. Or if you have a specific handload they will usually agree to use it provided it is safe.

A good book to read on the subject of double rifles is Shooting the British Double Rifle: A Modern Guide for Load Development and Use, 3rd Edition by Graeme Wright.

A properly regulated double can be very accurate. I used my Chapuis to shoot a moose at a laser ranged 287 yards. Baikals are normally very accurate as well once you get past their horrible triggers and in the case of the 45-70's their super thin barrels which will burn your hands after only a couple of shots. My Baikal 30-06 would put 4 shots into a 1 1/4 inch circle at 50 yards, 2 from each barrel.

There is a ton of double rifle knowledge on the Accurate Reloading Forum under the Double Rifle section.

[madsenshooter]

Before you get into mold ordering, be sure you slug your barrels so you know what you need. .410 might not cut it with lead.