Selecting powder for cap and ball revolvers

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Okay, getting close time wise to buying a Remington New Army cap and ball revolver. So I need to find some powder and primers to actually be able to shoot it.

I've read where there are some fairly new black powder substitutes out such as Old Eynesford (spelling?), etc. I've always leaned towards the innovative and right now I'm wondering if any of the newer powders offer an advantage for cap & ball revolvers that lifts it above the others, assuming one is buying powder.

I don't have any powder now, so my preference, rather than sample a half dozen brands, is to do some researching, reading, ask questions, then buy enough of one brand to last a while. That's worked well for me in the past and saved me some money, so if possible, I'd like to try that here.

So what are the worthwhile black powder substitutes to look at and think about buying for a cap & ball revolver? I hear FF is the right size in some places, but see where in others folks using FFF. So I'm looking to be enlightened before I spend my hard earned nickels.

Especially so since I'm upgrading my sandblasting setup and adding full sized parking/bluing tanks at the same time.

Thank you,

[oldracer]

I use Goex FFG for everything. Seems to shoot okay in my Walker 44 and a short barreled CVA kit I recently was given and assembled and also my 45 and 50 cal rifles. If you are going to compete then more care might be taken to select what to use but that Goex goes bang just fine.

[country gent]

Old ensford is a better grade of black powder but it is black powder. I would try 2f but in the cap and ball revolvers 3 f is popular. If a cap and ball revolver then 2 or 3 f powder and number 11 percussion caps. Pyrodex is a substitute that will also work. Not sure on triple seven blackhorn or some of the others.

[Hickok]

2f and 3f both work, but I get slightly higher velocity out of my .44's with 3f.

[Eagle66]

I use 3f for everything, regardless of bore. Full disclosure, I'm kind of old fashioned on this subject, but IMHO, BP is best for antiques or antique repos. Good performance, consistent weights for load development, plus, it's what they were designed to use as far as shooting & cleaning. Mine will never never taste anything else, BP or no shoot.

I think Pyrodex and the like is best for modern muzzle loaders, as it gives the BP experience without the mess that BP brings to the more precision modern guns. Sort of like modern centerfires. BP will work, but smokeless powder is better for performance, cleaning, etc.

[gandydancer]

Hickok said it. Old Eynsford is not a substitute it is a refined BLACK POWDER.

[gandydancer]

Hickok said it. Old Eynsford is not a substitute BP, it is a refined BLACK POWDER.

[winelover]

Original Poster specifically asked about BP SUBSTITUTES, not BP. I have been using Pyrodex "P" in my ROA as well as my Renegade and Tennessee Long Rifle for at least 20 years. Just reduce the rifle loads by 10 percent. No issues with accuracy, ignition or rust, as long as you clean before you put it up. I have left them loaded for years, at a time, and my barrels haven't suffered from it. Note, they must not be fouled, if you attempt this.

BP is an explosive and as such, I don't want it in my house. Since, I have no out buildings, I opted for the substitutes.

Winelover

[Hickok]

Dave though I am convinced black powder is the best, I know it can be hard to get in some areas. I have tryed Triple 7 3f in my revolvers, and it worked real well, and cleaned up easy. It is powderful and gave good velocity.

I get my black powder from Winchester Va., but that is a long way from you.

[gandydancer]

got some old Eynsford in winchester today. looking forward to trying some of it out soon. also I will be selling some goex cartridge black powder 1 lb cans soon at the LGS here it town. Time to move it for some newer Eynsford BP I have the ATF powder magazine to keep it in for my own use I have never sold any before. so out with the old and in with the new. GD

[swathdiver]

Forget the subs and get real BP. Olde Eynsford is near top of the list as far as power goes and it's just a couple dollars more than regular GOEX and Graf's Scheutzen powders.

[John Boy]

Read this ... http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html

[Enyaw]

Howdy,
I'molder now so.....Iwanted a powder that was not as corrosive as "The Holy Black" so when I got home from shootin and was tired I could clean my gun the next day.
I tried 777 powder and used too much FFFg type and damaged two of my Colt cap&ballers. The cylinder dented the ring it recoils back onto that'spart og thre frames. Don't use 777 FFg. Use the FFg and follow the instructions for down loading the 777 compared to black powder.

Haven't tried the newer APP since the old stuff made me sick it was so bad.Talkin bout the old Clean Shot stuff. I hear the new stuff is good.

I made my pick of the subs even over the Pyrodex,that is accurate and clean and gives faster velosities compared to black powder. The pick is Alliant Black MZ powder(sub).

The Alliant Black MZ has no Fg designation. It's just Black MZ. I tested it in my cap&ballers and it was great. A little hotter than black FFFg but not hurting the guns. I loaded volume to volume compared to black powder.

The BlackMZ shot great.Consistant shot to shot. Fouling wasn't too bad. Accuracy was as good or better than the blackpowder. I've been shooting cap&baller revs for close to thirty years and I am very particular when it comes to the powder I use.

I am a blackpowder only shootin guy and always was. If I like the Alliant Black MZ then it must be pretty danged good.

The Black MZ is showin up on the retail shelves now. It's not rated as an explosive.

I'd go with the Black MZ. It looks like black powder with the grain size pretty uniform. Doesn't compress too easily like Pyrodex(makes for good HOT loads being compressed).

Give it a try. It's good stuff. Made by APP but to Alliants specs. Alliant wouldn't put their name on any ****.

[SirMike1983]

My preference for my Colt percussion is FFF Goex. I have both FF and FFF and my experience has been that 3F fouls much less than 2F. I've tried both and use the 2F in only my 12 bore fowling musket, where the bigger grains are needed for the longer barrel and larger caliber.

[swathdiver]

Sometimes we get back from the range late and I'm just too tired to do anything but go to bed. Goex and Schuetzen Black Powders have yet to cause me any trouble by leaving them dirty a day or two after, not yet anyway.

[Alan]

Sometimes we get back from the range late and I'm just too tired to do anything but go to bed. Goex and Schuetzen Black Powders have yet to cause me any trouble by leaving them dirty a day or two after, not yet anyway.

Below 30% humidity, BP fouling is essentially inert. That is NOT the case w/ some subs. (glares at Pyrodex). Goex 2F gives lower pressure, slighty lower velocity, and more (but softer) fouling than Goex 3F. And in most of my guns, it cuts the group size in half for a comparable load. I feel life is too short to mess around w/ fillers unless you are in serious target competition. I use a +/- full charge of 2F, greased felt wad, and a tight fitting RB and a good bit of ramming pressue. 2F likes more ramming force than 3F, but not the 80 lbs recommended for Pyro.

[Good Cheer]

I just use Jacks Battle Powder. Don't have a clue as to velocities compared to others. One thing I am interested in looking in to is the reported use in the days gone by of very fine granulation in revolvers' paper cartridges, suspecting that the squishing down of the cartridge made for a packed volume of fines under a heavier bullet. Perhaps that is how the velocities were made adequate with the volume of powder being so very reduced with that long pointy thing taking up so much space.

[Nobade]

I use homemade BP in my revolvers. Just as powerful and accurate as commercial, and costs $2/lb. I have tried the subs and they work but real BP works better. I never have any problems with corrosion like I did when I tried Pyrodex (yuck) - ruined a nice revolver with that stuff since I cleaned it like normal rather than detail strip it down to the very last part. Any more it's nothing but real BP for me.

-Nobade

[Hanshi]

Old Eynsford was developed to compete with Swiss; and it indeed does just that. OE, and Swiss, are closer to the fine pistol powders that gave such high velocities and impressive power in the c&b pistols and the early cartridges like the .45 Colt and .44/40. I've also found that Jacks Battle Powder frequently gives higher velocities in muzzleloading rifles. JBP may be a good choice for c&b revolvers.

[Gray Fox]

I never had performance problems with Pyrodex P when I used it 10 years ago shooting a pair of '58 Remingtons in cowboy action shoots, but it does need to be cleaned well and early here in the South. Also, as I found using it in cartridges, best results came from shooting magnum primers and the hottest percussion caps I could find. Now I use KIK 3F which I got from the outfit in Alabama. As far as I know, both the Pietta, which I have, and Uberti '58s use #10 caps, but some folks use #11s by pinching them on the nipples.

You can finds lots of useful info and some nice helpful folks on the 1858 Remington Forum, too. Best of luck with this fine revolver when you get it. GF

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Okay, I've narrowed my powder choices down to three to start with:

1. Olde Eynsford FFFg
2. Alliant/APS Black MZ
3. 777 FFg

Gray Fox,

I've posted over there as well. But decided to post here since I've been here a long time. Amazingly enough, both sets of answers from both forums have lead me to the same list of powders to start with.

[Fly]

I use homemade BP in my revolvers. Just as powerful and accurate as commercial, and costs $2/lb. I have tried the subs and they work but real BP works better. I never have any problems with corrosion like I did when I tried Pyrodex (yuck) - ruined a nice revolver with that stuff since I cleaned it like normal rather than detail strip it down to the very last part. Any more it's nothing but real BP for me.

-Nobade

Ditto, like Noblade said!
Fly

[swathdiver]

Olde Eynsford of course!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Do they sell a powder called Fart Blossom? That one would be more interesting to shoot I'd bet.

[Safeshot]

I like Alliant Black MZ. As mentioned above it has no Fg, FFg or FFFg designation. It's just Black MZ. I think it is "The Powder" for me. It also has good reviews on some of the web sites.

[Mike 56]

I used to shoot Goex and KIK ff and fff. Now i shoot my home made powder It shoots great in all my guns. In my revolvers i load a full chamber of powder no measure needed. If i had to shoot something other than black powder it would be Pyrodex.