Comparing Swaged to Cast--With and Without Gas Checks

[sw282]

l have been wanting to do this little drill for years...And lt finally happened today...l wanted to know what was more accurate... Swaged bullets or cast bullets...l also was curious if gas checks are needed all the time...l decided to take my old "accuracy'' load and shoot it right beside some home cast bullets.....My favorite 44 mold is an old Hensley & Gibbs #142..Then stamped .429... This is a 230gr gas check mold that is similar to a lyman/ldeal 431215.. My accuracy load uses Speer 240gr swaged swc bullets .430 dia.. MV is app 900fps...

So l loaded up 60 rds of 44 mag using PMC brass. 8 gr Unique and a Remington 2 1/2 L Pistol Primer... My 2 guns were SW 629 44s.. One a 629DX w open sites..The other a SW 629 PC Comp Hunter with a 2moa reddot. l shot the 12 five shot groups at 33yds off sandbags at an indoor range.. The results are...

Behind Door #1 H&G 142 without GC. 2.75'' from open site 629DX...1.8'' from PC HUNTER W.reddot
And Door #2 H&G 142 cast WITH gas cks... 0pen site DX shot a 3'' group...Reddot Hunter came in at 2.00'' even
Last place were the Speer swaged bullets...0pen site group was 3 1/2''... Reddot Hunter--2 3/4''


l want to know why a bullet designed for gas checks will shoot better WITHOUT them that WITH them.. And why a home cast shot better than those precision swaged Speers

ps.. The H&G 142 Bullets are cast from Strait wheel weights and lubed and sized using Lee Alox and .429 sizer.. l lube the bullets twice.. Before l size and after..



thanks


282

[44man]

l want to know why a bullet designed for gas checks will shoot better WITHOUT them that WITH them.. And why a home cast shot better than those precision swaged Speers

More then likely it is because the boolit drive area is shorter without the GC and the light load works better in the twist.
Swaged is usually a different alloy and even though a good forming, the alloy will change things. You could be getting slump.
Try an experiment with your cast using Unique, make the boolits very hard once, try for 28 to 30 BHN and see what you get.
Also try .430", sounds like you might be undersize.

[sw282]

44Man ..Tanks for the input..l dont think l can make the bullets bigger. This old H&G mold is marked .429.. When l resize them with a .429 sizing die there is barely any resistance..l guess l could try lubing them and loading some ''unsized''...As for making them harder l may try casting some an add a bit of tin..

[44man]

Water drop and let them age a few days to a few weeks. You might gain .001". My .476" boolits grow to .478", my .430" boolits grow to .431". The antimony needs a little time. Some tin might help.
Let me know how it works out.

[sw282]

44Man.. lts been some month since working on this project with this H&G #142 .. since it was a .429 marked mold l took a couple of the that had ''aged'' a few months and checked their size by pushing them them in the cyl..Noticing some resistance l decided they might shoot pretty well 'unsized'. l put a few of them in a plastic bowl and tumble lubed them in Lee Alox. After letting them dry for a couple days l reloaded them and then off to the range..l got a really pleasant surprise watching my groups shrink almost 1/2''..l still need to work on getting them a bit harder because l had a touch of leading. l really like this 142 w/o gc.. lt makes loading easier and the absence of the gc seems to provide an extra grease groove...

Unfortunately l muddied the waters a bit over Christmas by winning an auction for a H&G #503. this is a Keith 44 mold for 44cal 250gr bullets.. This is also a .429 mold.. Will try and post some results on bullets from my new 'old' 503 Keith swc


282

[Forrest r]

I have a h&g #142 mold also, an older 2 cavity that casts a 220g swc in 1 cavity and a 200g hpswc in the other factory hp'd cavity. Hp'ing 1 cavity and leaving the other side alone in the late h&g/early saeco molds was farely common. This #142 has proved to be an excellent mold for me & I also have a h&g #12 (keith swc for the 38/357) that is a 2 cavity mold with 1 cavity plain and the other is hp'd. My 44cal mold is an early saeco mold with only 142 stamped in it. It's casts a .4305 bullet from nothing more than range scrap. I've shot/tested it in 4 different 44's with/without gc's and with conventional lubes along with pc'ing them.

For me they clearly shot better in every firearm with gc's. But we are using 2 different alloys along with sizing them to different sizes. Typical plinking fodder/#142's cast with range scrap/sized to .430/gc'd and light loads from target pistol powders (clays/bullseye/hp-38).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/142s_zpsf73eb48e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/142s_zpsf73eb48e.jpg.html)

I cast a bunch of these and used the traditional lube/gc/sizing on them & still have a couple hundred of them to burn up. Since then I cast another 20# of them and pc'd them along with putting gc's on them.

You might consider pc'ing some bullets and trying them, the pc will easily bump your bullet diameter up 2/1000th's.