Keep your finger off the trigger

[Bzcraig]

Don't know for sure how this happened but when it came in my email box the caption read: This is why you do not put your finger on the trigger before you find your target.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

OW, OWW, OOWWWW, OOOOOO, $hit!, Ooww!

[GP100man]

That`s gonna leave a scar !!!!

Chamber check was the first thing to come to my mind, & it WAS loaded.

[smokeywolf]

Caption contest?

I didn't know the gun was loaded.

And I voted for Obama.

[wrench man]

Yep!, that's guna HURT when it stops hurt'n!, I MASHED! my left thumb with a 4# sledge at work in Otc '12, it had 9 stitches in it, four thru the nail!, it HURT!, that looks a little worse!
DAYAM!!!

[WallyM3]

That's not a good thing.

[rintinglen]

It hurts when I do this, Doc.

I only see three fingers--I hope the little one is still attached.

[leftiye]

Don't place your finger over the barrel of even a ,22. Looks just like a friend's finger when I was young. My aunt tried to tell me it was my fault. I wasn't even there when it happened. I asked her why his hand was over the barrel.

That had nothing to do with trigger finger ettiquette.

[tazman]

I have an acquaintance who is missing part of his left thumb from shooting a muzzle loader. Seems he put the cap on before he loaded it, and didn't have it in the safety notch.

[dmize]

Ya know with all the tactical training **** floating around and videos on YouTube. I am willing to bet that is getting to be a lot more common than anyone wants to admit.
And my guess from the "shot placement" in relationship to that knuckle he is going to loose that finger.

[w5pv]

It's the unloaded gun that kills

[GP100man]

When I first looked at it I thought it mighta missed the majority of the bone/joint, but a good second look , looks to be centered on the knuckle . They may have saved it (I hope so !)but mobility will certainly remind em of that day each time he trys to bend it !!

[44man]

I seen it on TV! Guy primed the pan before loading the ML. Nobody caught it either. Guy was touted as an "expert."
I have often wondered why there are grooves on the front of 1911 slides??? Finger practice?

[Ausglock]

That will buff right out. Give it a few days, She'll be right. All good. No worries.

[deepwater]

Must have been a hand gun.

[kweidner]

doooh that's gonna leave a mark.

[monadnock#5]

Gonna be awhile before he gets back to the range.

[Hickok]

Reminds me of a guy who told me all he had to do to disable a 1911 was rush up and press his hand against the muzzle, and the pistol wouldn't shoot. I told this "expert", "Yea right, and all I have to do is move the .45 back a quarter of an inch and it's over!"

I always told my kids when they were growing up, that the muzzle of a firearm was just like a rattlesnakes head. You would never put any part of your body in front of or in contact with a rattlesnake's head. And you never put your face up to a rattler's head. Never!

The comparison has stuck with them.

[robertbank]

We have had two incidents similar, but quite as drastic, involving pistol unloading. For reasons only idiot God knows tactical trainers teach the over hand method to unload your pistol. Drop magazine then place your weak hand over the top of the ejection port and pull slide back. Works great until then hand slips a bit, the loaded round catches the ejector squarely on the primer and the gun goes boom. You instantly get a hand full of flying brass from the case requiring surgical removal. Both at IPSC matches.
While not as "tactical" all you have to do is take your thumb and forefinger from your weak hand and pinch the back of the slide and pull. Out pops the round and life is good.

Take Care

Bob

[Silver Jack Hammer]

One guy in my shooting group just shot himself through the hand almost a year ago, he wasn't sure how he did it. He's in his 70's and does gunsmitthing work. He said he always only works on one gun at a time but when he shot himself he had two guns dismantled on his bench. He said he always keeps his bullets in this one cup on his bench... His hand is healing well but he lived by himself with the use of only one hand for a while. I'm kind of disappointed in his neighbors, instead of helping him with meals and tying his shoes they came over to borrow tools. What I took away from this is that if it can happen to him it can happen to anybody. If we handle rattlesnakes all of the time and don't get bit, then we have a tendency to let our safety rules slip. Then one of them bites us, because that's what rattlesnakes do.

Then a few years ago an armorer was testing a Beretta 92 for function out of battery. He was putting his hand over the muzzle, pushing back on the slide and pulling the trigger. The gun was supposed to be unloaded and was not supposed to fire out of battery. But a real funny guy slipped a round into one of the Beretta 92's as a joke. The injury disabled the armorer and he had to retire. What I took away from this is the Beretta 92 is such a safe platform we can lower our guard when handling them -not. An armorer should have known to use the corner of the bench and not his hand to function test a firearm but he let his safety rules slip. Would you believe they didn't fire the jokester clowning around? This happened at a law enforcement agency within the State where I live.

We had another citizen call in to the emergency dispatch center that he had shot himself in the hand. He was told to step outside and he did. I was the first one there, he waved to flag me down. As if holding a bloody towel wasn't enough of a clue to me that he was the one that I needed to find. He said he was cleaning it after firing it. His wife and several friends witnessed it. He was sitting on the couch after shooting. He's lucky the round whet through his hand and not the femoral artery. The injury was less serious than the poor fella in the pic in the original post.

Our community is still reeling from the accidental shooting death of a 13 year old. A bunch of kids went to one of the boys house after school, no parents were home. A slide action shotgun was brought out and suddenly a young boys suffered from a fatal gunshot. He died en route to the hospital or shortly after arriving. A lot of the kids ran, then later denied even being there.

Personally I go through the safety rules before I shoot, but I'm thinking I should go through the safety rules every time before I handle firearms. I don't want to be one of these stories; "I thought it was unloaded..."

[Larry Gibson]

Ya know with all the tactical training **** floating around and videos on YouTube. I am willing to bet that is getting to be a lot more common than anyone wants to admit..............

I'm betting we'll also see more of it because of the asinine draw, bring the handgun up to the center of the chest and then extend to shooting position. Ever notice; it is un-natural to cock the handgun to the side (so the muzzle points out away from you) when bring the handgun in front of you with just the strong hand and most often, even with experienced shooters, the muzzle is pointed at the weak hand coming to the front also? I've watched many shooters do this now and invariable when moving fast they always point the handgun at the weak hand somewhere in there.

I'd still like someone to explain to me the reasoning for that "technique"? Seems we've forgotten everything real gunfighters ever taught us about gunfighting with a handgun. For someone who has been there and done that (gunfighting with a handgun), taught countless military and police marksmanship and combat weaponscraft along with tactical and officer survival that pump you handgun out back and forth from the chest and looking sideways and then always reholstering is pretty stupid......IMHO.

Larry Gibson

[robertbank]

Larry what you described is being taught to every police officer in Canada including the RCMP. The range training is to re-enforce situational awareness. I am not saying it is right, just letting you know who teaches and uses the method. The drawing back of the gun to the chest is to keep it out of the way of the grasp of an assailant I am told.

The standard draw taught to competition shooters involves a draw that is faster than any other method. Todd Jarett claimed in one of his classes he teaches, the US Military was about 20 years behind the times when it came to effective use of a handgun. From what I have seen from our Canadian combat troops I would say he is being generous. Their training involves the use of their rifles and their achievements can speak for themselves. Not so sure the handgun training they get is up to much. Forget the shooting robots you see on shooting teams, look at the average infantryman. If you want to see the fastest methods of putting a handgun into the fight go watch the top shooters in IPSC/USPSA Production or IDPA SSP/ESP Divisions. Incidently the sweeping of the weak hand does not take place. You go home in all three major action shooting sports if that occurs (IPSC.USPSA/IDPA).

Take Care

Bob



.

[psychicrhino]

Ouch ouch ouch. Day ruined.

[koehlerrk]

About 10 years ago I had a bad day with an "unloaded" rifle. On one side you have me, mid-twenties, and thinking I knew it all. On the other side you have Fate who decided to teach me a lesson. That "unloaded" rifle rewarded me with my one and only negligent discharge. The only casualty was my pride, but I will say that it made me much more mindful of the rules. I got lucky once, I'm not up to trying my luck ever again.

[44man]

One day squirrel hunting with my Mark II, I thought the gun was empty. I removed the magazine and pulled the bolt, nothing came out so I pointed at the ground and pulled the trigger, it went off, the extractor did not grab the round. No harm but a lesson that failures do happen. Just a dirty gun and too dark to see in the gun. Just experience to never point a gun will save you.
The dip that shot his thumb off by getting it at the cylinder gap of a .460, gets no sympathy either.

[freebullet]

Wowzer! That dude done sploded his finner.

Kids don't try this at home! Er...anywhere else.

[Mumblypeg]

It's the unloaded gun that kills

No.... it's the " I THOUGHT it was unloaded" gun that kills.

[Larry Gibson]

Bob

Having instructed the number of military and LEOs that I did for the number of years I did I am well aware that the Military and police were more than 20 years behind......unfortunately we see this tactic/technique instructed a lot down here also. Case in point; I was running a training session back east with some Marine Force Recon and the lead guy shot my 1st insurgent in front of him and then pulled the M9 back to his chest, looked left and saw the 2nd insurgent standing there, did nothing except looked to the right (just as he had been extensively trained to do)........I nodded to the insurgent who promptly dumped several rounds (blanks of course) from his AK into the Marine as he was looking to the right. The Marine slumped down knowing he was dead and just shook his head. In the AAR I asked him if he saw the 2nd insurgent and if so why he did not immediately engage him? The Marine said he saw him but they were trained to not do anything until they had looked both ways........I suggested perhaps they should rethink that training technique and keep the weapon always at the ready. Next run through a different scenario they started going back to older proven tactics and did fine.

The drawing back of the gun to the chest is to keep it out of the way of the grasp of an assailant I am told.

Sorry but I don't buy that either. The "assailant" should have been shot while the handgun was extended if a "shoot" situation. If not a "shoot" situation then the handgun should be retained by one hand further way (low to the side or behind) or reholstered with the off hand keeping the assailant away, so both hands are then available to deal with the assailant. Also the off hand should be defending and the officer should be moving back or to one side instead of "taking the charge" with both hands tied up and looking side to side (they will do as they are trained) as with that technique. I instructed officer survival and studied many incidents to make sure the tactics instructed were correct. I see absolutely no use for this. Another asinine tactic is the total misuse of the "stack".....don't get me started on that one........

But I guess ole Sheriff Wilson looks good to many on TV when using both......he looks asinine to me.........

Larry Gibson

[FergusonTO35]

Yesterday I was hanging out at my favorite shop. A longtime cop was also there and asked to see a pistol in the cabinet. When it was handed to him the first thing he did was point it at the employee, put his finger inside the trigger guard, then pull the slide back to see if it was unloaded.

[GP100man]

I enterate "booger picker off the trigger" alot to my girls !!!

My baby girl was commended at a GS 1 time for never touchin the trigger while sizing a firearm.

I never felt prouder of her !

She still practices it to this day.

GP

[Tar Heel]

robertbank & Larry: The older than dirt dilemma - Which technique is better? Through the ages from NRA Marksman, USMC, Law Enforcement, CCH, as a pupil and as an instructor, we have all (well Larry anyway :-)) been privy to Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan, Massad Ayoob, and the litany of the newer shooters and "better" techniques.

Like the Marine in Larry's post, we will revert to our training under duress. If we survive that encounter, we WILL incorporate what we learned IN THAT ENCOUNTER to keep ourselves alive in future - regardless of our training to the contrary.

I think attitude is more important than minor technique issues. Aggressive determined warriors usually win lethal conflicts. Luck always plays a role as well. Being stupid will get ya killed so apply learned lessons and modify as necessary.

Semper Fi

[DR Owl Creek]

... Case in point; I was running a training session back east with some Marine Force Recon and the lead guy shot my 1st insurgent in front of him and then pulled the M9 back to his chest, looked left and saw the 2nd insurgent standing there, did nothing except looked to the right (just as he had been extensively trained to do)........I nodded to the insurgent who promptly dumped several rounds (blanks of course) from his AK into the Marine as he was looking to the right. The Marine slumped down knowing he was dead and just shook his head. In the AAR I asked him if he saw the 2nd insurgent and if so why he did not immediately engage him? The Marine said he saw him but they were trained to not do anything until they had looked both ways........I suggested perhaps they should rethink that training technique and keep the weapon always at the ready. Next run through a different scenario they started going back to older proven tactics and did fine.

The drawing back of the gun to the chest is to keep it out of the way of the grasp of an assailant I am told.

Sorry but I don't buy that either. The "assailant" should have been shot while the handgun was extended if a "shoot" situation. If not a "shoot" situation then the handgun should be retained by one hand further way (low to the side or behind) or reholstered with the off hand keeping the assailant away, so both hands are then available to deal with the assailant. Also the off hand should be defending and the officer should be moving back or to one side instead of "taking the charge" with both hands tied up and looking side to side (they will do as they are trained) as with that technique. I instructed officer survival and studied many incidents to make sure the tactics instructed were correct. I see absolutely no use for this. Another asinine tactic is the total misuse of the "stack".....don't get me started on that one ...

Larry Gibson

I couldn't agree with you more about "the draw" AND "stacking". Every time I see that, I just have to shake my head and laugh.

Dave

Luke 21: 7-36

[Hamish]

I think I can address this one on a couple of points. Despite being absolutely anal about safety I lost half a thumb a couple of years back by violating several safety rules at once due to familiarity, exhaustion, and a perceived need to complete the task have left me maimed for the rest of my life. Never ignore that little voice that tells you to stop what you are doing,,,,,,

Regarding the five point draw,,,,,I was taught to use a modified Weaver stance which puts the off side foot forward, turning the body slightly away from the target. Then to ball the the weak hand into a fist and to place it into the center of the chest with the elbow tight to the torso. The strong hand draws and brings the hand up to the center of the chest, pistol pointed level and forward to the target. As the strong hand assumes a vertically superior position on the chest, the weak hand assumes its grasp of the strong hand and the pistol. The muzzle of the pistol, when brought to the ready, is naturally a few degrees to the weak side, and, as the body is rotated slightly to the strong side, the muzzle is pointed directly at the target in a natural manner.

In keeping the hands in contact with the torso on both the draw and reholstering, the off hand is never swept by the muzzle.

This is NOT the only way to draw, it is A way to draw, and it works for me. (Insofar as practice for self defense situations and IDPA, not in any casual shooting situation.)

Concerning the rote practice of scanning back and forth, I have discussed this at length with various law enforcement and LE/shooting instructors/concealed carry instructors, and am pleased that, at least in my area, any mindless repetition of any drill is recognized as training to fail.

[EMC45]

But I saw it on Youtube being executed by a tattooed, bearded "operator" so that makes it the only way right?

[Tar Heel]

But I saw it on Youtube being executed by a tattooed, bearded "operator" so that makes it the only way right?

Thank God for You Tube!

[Love Life]

1st rule of a gunfight: Don't shoot yourself like a retard.

Mr. Gibson has hit it on the head with weird shooting techniques. I see it quite a bit with all the ninja videos teaching people how to be tactical. Off balance firing stances, not taking cover, crappy room clearing techniques, etc.

We have a saying that is fantastically true: Brilliance in the basics.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have some comments about this subject that have been missed above. I am a Front Sight person and have been to about 7 or 8, 2 and 4 day handgun classes.

I have my draw down pretty well and if I practice a little I can do it fast and safe. They teach the 5 point draw which speeds up into a 3 point draw as your speed increases. This becomes a "ROTE function" which is a perishable skill and must be practiced frequently to be maintained. If it is not practiced then the procedure can mutate into an unsafe string of actions.

I have seen this in myself, and If I have done it, so have others, and I would submit that "Everyone" is in fact susceptible to the degradation of the rote function if it is not maintained.

I see some possible outpoints in this guys draw if he indeed was drawing the gun when this occurred.

Position #1 is always the same. Strong hand establishes grip on gun and the support hand slaps chest, Trigger finger finds "home position: on the gun out of the trigger guard. On a Glock this is finger on the takedown and same for a 1911. The support hand on the chest gets it out of the way.

This was where the first part of the FU occurred. He had his finger on the trigger at this point.

Position #2 draws gun strait up to clear holster. Position #3 rotates gun towards target. Position #4 pushes gun towards target picking up support hand as the gun passes by,,,,,,,,, and this is where the second part of the FU occurred. His support hand shifted towards the gun before the muzzle was past his body and got in front of the muzzle .

Why he pulled the trigger at that point is beyond me but he obviously did.

The trigger finger should not be going onto the trigger until the gun is transitioning towards position #5 which is on target with the slack taken up ready to fire.

Scenario #2 he did a chamber check with his finger on the trigger and muzzled his hand in the process?

Scenario #3 He deliberately shot himself in the hand and that's where the hole ended up.

Without knowing the exact circumstance these are my best guesses.

My whole purpose in this post is to make one specific point perfectly clear. Unless you are professionally trained in the correct use of a handgun, rifle or shotgun,,, and by that I mean Current Military Training and Drilling, Current LE Training and Frequent Drilling or Professional Shooting School Training and Drilling, you have no business doing anything "Tactical".

"Tactical" implies compete competence with firearms as a basic tenet. When moving and shooting the shooter must have complete control of the firearm at all times. It does not mean wearing Camo and running around waving a gun.

You learn how to have complete control by learning the basics from some "Competent" Training Source in person, man on man, and then drilling them first by dry firing and then by live fire. This requires many days of training to master,,,, it is not something you read about and then go do and think you're cool. You're NOT! You're simply armed and dangerous to yourself and others at that point. You're probably fat and out of shape as well which increases your odds of shooting yourself or others.

Before I started at Front Sight I "thought" I was a pretty good shot with a pistol. I learned very quickly at my first class that I sucked outright. In that class of 40 people I finished 39th and the only person I beat was the woman I was coaching who had never fired a gun in her life! This was a rude awakening, but I had the good sense to "know, that I did not know" which allowed me to get trained.

It took me 4 trips to Front Sight to graduate that class. I have still after 8 handgun classes, have not achieved "Distinguish Graduate" for that course (score -12 or less) and it would take me probably two or three back to back classes to achieve that level of proficiency, which I will do some day just to say I did it. I do graduate everytime I go but not with a perfect or nearly perfect score.

I shoot IDPA and 3 Gun Comps once a month and If I do a bunch of dry practice before the shoots (both Rifle and Pistol) I can get into the top 3. If I have just came back from a Front Sight Class then I have a good chance of winning the day.

The point being that practice is absolutely necessary to maintain competent gun handling, and if not done can result in major problems. If you lay off for a while then you start up slow by dry practicing and as your skills come back your speed increases.

However if the skills were not there in the first place, then all practice can do for you is reinforce bad habits, which looks to be the case here.

The poor dude in the OP's post obviously violated one or more of the 4 Basic Rules of Firearms Safety.

That one about not pointing the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy being the most obvious.

I bet that hurt.

Randy

[Tar Heel]

I have some comments about this subject that have been missed above. I am a Front Sight person and have been to about 7 or 8, 2 and 4 day handgun classes.

I have my draw down pretty well and if I practice a little I can do it fast and safe. They teach the 5 point draw which speeds up into a 3 point draw as your speed increases. This becomes a "ROTE function" which is a perishable skill and must be practiced frequently to be maintained. If it is not practiced then the procedure can mutate into an unsafe string of actions.

I have seen this in myself, and If I have done it, so have others, and I would submit that "Everyone" is in fact susceptible to the degradation of the rote function if it is not maintained.

I see some possible outpoints in this guys draw if he indeed was drawing the gun when this occurred.

Position #1 is always the same. Strong hand establishes grip on gun and the support hand slaps chest, Trigger finger finds "home position: on the gun out of the trigger guard. On a Glock this is finger on the takedown and same for a 1911. The support hand on the chest gets it out of the way.

This was where the first part of the FU occurred. He had his finger on the trigger at this point.

Position #2 draws gun strait up to clear holster. Position #3 rotates gun towards target. Position #4 pushes gun towards target picking up support hand as the gun passes by,,,,,,,,, and this is where the second part of the FU occurred. His support hand shifted towards the gun before the muzzle was past his body and got in front of the muzzle .

Why he pulled the trigger at that point is beyond me but he obviously did.

The trigger finger should not be going onto the trigger until the gun is transitioning towards position #5 which is on target with the slack taken up ready to fire.

Scenario #2 he did a chamber check with his finger on the trigger and muzzled his hand in the process?

Scenario #3 He deliberately shot himself in the hand and that's where the hole ended up.

My whole purpose in this post is to make one specific point perfectly clear. Unless you are professionally trained in the correct use of a handgun, rifle or shotgun,,, and by that I mean Current Military Training and Drilling, Current LE Training and Frequent Drilling or Professional Shooting School Training and Drilling, you have no business doing anything "Tactical".

"Tactical" implies compete competence with firearms as a basic tenet. When moving and shooting the shooter must have complete control of the firearm at all times. It does not mean wearing Camo and running around waving a gun.

You learn how to have complete control by learning the basics from some "Competent" Training Source in person, man on man, and then drilling them first by dry firing and then by live fire. This requires many days of training to master,,,, it is not something you read about and then go do and think you're cool. You're NOT! You're simply armed and dangerous to yourself and others at that point. You're probably fat and out of shape as well which increases your odds of shooting yourself or others.

Before I started at Front Sight I "thought" I was a pretty good shot with a pistol. I learned very quickly at my first class that I sucked outright. In that class of 40 people I finished 39th and the only person I beat was the woman I was coaching who had never fired a gun in her life! This was a rude awakening, but I had the good sense to "know, that I did not know" which allowed me to get trained.

It took me 4 trips to Front Sight to graduate that class. I have still after 8 handgun classes, have not achieved "Distinguish Graduate" for that course (score -12 or less) and it would take me probably two or three back to back classes to achieve that level of proficiency, which I will do some day just to say I did it. I do graduate everytime I go but not with a perfect or nearly perfect score.

I shoot IDPA and 3 Gun Comps once a month and If I do a bunch of dry practice before the shoots (both Rifle and Pistol) I can get into the top 3. If I have just came back from a Front Sight Class then I have a good chance of winning the day.

The point being that practice is absolutely necessary to maintain competent gun handling, and if not done can result in major problems. If you lay off for a while then you start up slow by dry practicing and as your skills come back your speed increases.

However if the skills were not there in the first place, then all practice can do for you is reinforce bad habits, which looks to be the case here.

The poor dude in the OP's post obviously violated one or more of the 4 Basic Rules of Firearms Safety.

That one about not pointing the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy being the most obvious.

I bet that hurt.

Randy

So are you saying don't shoot your hand?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes.

Randy

[Tar Heel]

Big chuckle.

[dilly]

I always told my kids when they were growing up, that the muzzle of a firearm was just like a rattlesnakes head. You would never put any part of your body in front of or in contact with a rattlesnake's head. And you never put your face up to a rattler's head. Never!

The comparison has stuck with them.

I will probably use that!

[W.R.Buchanan]

One thing I forgot to mention,,, That swinging your head from side to side that is referred to in an above post or two is what is known as "After Action Drills."

In a typical training volley,,,You draw the gun, shoot, and then drop the gun to the ready position out of your line of sight. This is so you can see if the guy is down and out of the fight since he should be laying on the ground by now. IE: you lower the gun to see if he needs to be shot some more.

After you establish that there is no threat in front of you, look to either side, (and if you're doing it right all the way behind you) to check for new threats. Then in reality you are supposed to move to cover, however on a firing line you can't really do that since there is no cover.

This is so you don't get shot by another threat that you didn't see because you were only looking directly in front of you.

Unfortunately this gets mutated into blindly swinging your head from side to side instead of actually looking behind you.

Sometimes the instructors will stand right behind you and scare you if you don't see them.

It actually serves a purpose.

The retracting the gun to Position #4 after the shot serves no purpose that I know of, I don't know why people do it as it only puts you behind the curve if you have a "failure to stop" scenario and need to take a head shot.

Retracting to Position #4 is normally used when going thru a doorway so the gun doesn't get whacked out of your hand by the guy hiding behind the door that you didn't see.

With a rifle you are shooting from a low ready, high ready or field ready position when standing and then you drop the gun down to the low ready after the shot and then check your 6. Then you need to move to cover.

If you are prone or sitting or kneeling you still need to look around since you probably alerted other threats to your position when you fired, and you can't just move real fast when you are laying on your stomach in the dirt. Also you might already be behind cover, but if there is a threat behind you, in fact you are "in front" of cover and that may need to be changed.

Good to know if something bad is actually happening, and once again it must be drilled so that it is second nature.

Randy

[Love Life]

Don't forget: Weapon points where you are looking...always.

I love it when the tactitards assess and look left and right with their firearm pointed forward. Easy way to get got.

[W.R.Buchanan]

LL: unfortunately you can't really sweep your gun from side to side on a firing line with 29 other people standing next to you.

They tend to get antsy when you point your gun at or near them.

The real world and school are too different places for sure, but I doubt anyone lasts in the real world for long without going to school first.

Learning gun handling and tactics on the fly can be a very short lived thing. Better to at least know how to shoot first.

Randy

[Love Life]

LL: unfortunately you can't really sweep your gun from side to side on a firing line with 29 other people standing next to you.

Randy

I can understand that and the need for safety, but it is a truly bad technique to be instilling into people.

[robertbank]

Love Life most of the officers I meet in this part of the world are reasonably professional and are well aware of the purpose of their training.

There always will be arm chair critics who were taught differently and think any movement from what they were taught is wrong. Not sure why we care but we seem to.

Take Care

Bob

[rondog]

Is that an entry hole at the base of the thumb? Poor bastard, that hand is ruined for life.

Photos like that give me the willies, but they're priceless teaching aids. GSW photos have helped me to make my grandson a very safe gun handler.

[Love Life]

Love Life most of the officers I meet in this part of the world are reasonably professional and are well aware of the purpose of their training.

There always will be arm chair critics who were taught differently and think any movement from what they were taught is wrong. Not sure why we care but we seem to.

Take Care

Bob

I reckon it's all in one's training and life experiences. I played the game for keeps, and eyes, body, weapon was something drilled into us at a ripe young age.

What is an arm chair critic?

[robertbank]

I reckon it's all in one's training and life experiences. I played the game for keeps, and eyes, body, weapon was something drilled into us at a ripe young age.

What is an arm chair critic?

Read the whole thread. The remark was not directed at you. As for what an arm chair critic is. The ones sitting at a computer commenting on how it was once done and how inept the new method is.

Take Care

Bob

[44man]

I never get tired of this. Had a White house security guy here to shoot. Glock of course. He went through all that stuff at 10 yards, never hit paper. My friend Pete came down and asked if he could shoot the Block. He dumped the mag into the black so fast it sounded like one shot.

[Love Life]

Read the whole thread. The remark was not directed at you. As for what an arm chair critic is. The ones sitting at a computer commenting on how it was once done and how inept the new method is.

Take Care

Bob

It's funny how tactics and training change over the years. My friend's grandfather was a policeman way back in the day. I mean super old. When he drew his revolver in the woods it was always draw out and point it up with the cylinder at shoulder level. I always though that was neat.

I reckon whatever works without shooting yourself is what is important!!

[robertbank]

It's funny how tactics and training change over the years. My friend's grandfather was a policeman way back in the day. I mean super old. When he drew his revolver in the woods it was always draw out and point it up with the cylinder at shoulder level. I always though that was neat.

I reckon whatever works without shooting yourself is what is important!!

Yes you can say that again and be right twice.

Take Care

Bob

[W.R.Buchanan]

Just to show you that this is not isolated to the inexperienced, I would direct you to page 62 of the June 2014 issue of the Dillon Blue Press.

And here is a email I sent to the editor with regard to the article.

Mark: Just got my monthly installment of Dillon Blue Press that I look forward to every month.

Love the articles by Duane Thomas on shooting faster and IDPA related stuff.

This month’s article on the Firearms Academy of Seattle’s “Speed shooting Course, “ has one pretty obvious flaw. In pic #2 where the guy is at position #2 of the draw sequence, (Which actually appears to be half way between Position #2 and #3),,,

HE HAS HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER !!!

In pic #3 his finger is again strait.

The pics don’t accurately represent the actual sequence of events as taught by virtually every shooting school out there. The caption does explain it correctly but the pics are a little misleading.

Some people don’t read and understand text, (you would see this in the number of people that don’t read the instructions for your loading tools and have to call to get information that is sitting in a manual right in front of them.)

The attachment above has the reason why this matters. (see Pic of hand with hole at beginning of thread.)

This guy blew a hole in his hand while drawing his gun with his finger on the trigger while he covered his hand with the muzzle during the transition between positions #3 and #4.

Why he pulled the trigger is beyond me, but I think the explanation would be similar to the one for having his finger on the trigger in the first place.

Might want to clarify this point for those who take things they see literally.

Randy

This just goes to show that anyone can have this problem, and no one is immune.

Randy