missionary5155
05-03-2014, 05:15 AM
Good morning
This is my #5095 post so here is the cartridge to go along with it. Rifle photos in post #24.
Winchester wanted a "Big 50" cartridge in the model 1876 line up. After all the model 1876 Centenial Rifle was their entry into powerful cartridges in lever rifles. People wanted repeaters for hunting and protection during raids. Winchester always ready to make a good profit had a solution.
The model 1876 is well noted historicly. The part that interests me is why the receiver was not enlarged long enough to accomidate the 45-70 (2.105 inches) ? By doing so the caliber .50 case could have been longer also. Did they already wonder about the strength of the toggle system and soft frame (by todays standard) giving way ?
Winchester made the receiver just long enought to accomidate a cartridge of just 2.25 inches total. Thus the cases had to be a nominal 1.90 inches in length. So the Winchester solution was bottleneck cases. Fatter cases hold more powder. Bottleneck cases were already in use by some rifle manufactures so this was not an inovation.
50-95 cases can be made from the caliber .50 Sharps 2.50 cases. Lots of trimming and rim thinning but it is a solution. Buffalo Arms sells ready made cases at about $1.75 each. All new cases are solid head design so interior capacity is less than origonal cases but far stronger than the opperating pressures even in a reproduction model 1876. I found it was impossible to approach 95 grains of 2F powder and seat a bullet within limits. Cases bulge and will not chamber. 82 grains of 2F was about it with my 347 grain bullet seated on top of a cereal box wad to maintain that 2.25 OAL. If it does not fit the lifter you have a single shot.
I went with the Ideal 515139 cast of 40-1 (347 grains) because I do not like light for caliber boolits. Absolute velocity means little to me. I want "smack" on target and good penetration. Plus I had the mold. I considered making a caliber .50 jig to hollow point but the 347's shot so well I never got to. Maybe this time up.
Black powder is what the cartridge and rifle was designed for so that is where I started. 2F loads were dismal. Drop tube and/or vibrate just could not pack enough in there. The factory tooted news of near 1500 FPS with a nominal 300 grain hollow point. Mine were about 1280 FPS. 47 grains of lead just does not slow a boolit that much. So through more research it surfaced Winchester also experienced about the same. Winchester wanted to sell rifles with marketing value. A cartridge that could zip a caliber .50 slug down range with authority. So Winchester tried 3F. Problem solved. Using 3F I can drop tube & vibrate 87 grains into my cases without bulging and fit the chamber. Using my loading of the 347 grain plus the cereal box wad my rifle will produce 1465 fps (crono at 12 feet). Cases eject easily. Another plus of 3F in my rifle is there is now blowback on the cases or into the chamber. I have fired 30 rounds with just barely a trace of "soot" on the lifter. 2F left me with a mess to clean up. Plus 3F left so little fouling behind there really was little reason to swab the barrel after 10 shots. Chamber was still clean enough to seat the next round. But I generally do as 10 rounds even in 60 degree temperature does heat the barrel. 3F produced the best accuracy of the loads I tried. Extreme velocity spread is about 5 (five). I checked that several times. If 3F was all there was I would have zero complaints. I do not trust my memory for exact group sizes but I know my rifle off cross sticks will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards and is under 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
I did try 5477. I first called Accurate and spoke to one of the tech reps. Gave him all the meausrements of case, boolit and barrel. He then did his computer magic and gave me expected pressures per grains of powder. 5477 will easily duplicate 3F velocities. I was 5 grains under the implied max load when 5477 reached the same 1465 fps with the same boolit. Accuracy is not as good but not bad. It would easily drop corn crunchers at 150 yards which was the intended hunting range.
I am new at shooting the 50-95. My rifle is a Chapparal in the 4000 serial #'s. This one was put together right. I plan on more shooting when we get back up this June. I will start again with 3F. I may never move on to another powder. Why fight success ! Sure hope to get a chance at a yote or even a cougar. White tail are just a dream for center fire lever rifles in ILLinois.
Mike in Peru
This is my #5095 post so here is the cartridge to go along with it. Rifle photos in post #24.
Winchester wanted a "Big 50" cartridge in the model 1876 line up. After all the model 1876 Centenial Rifle was their entry into powerful cartridges in lever rifles. People wanted repeaters for hunting and protection during raids. Winchester always ready to make a good profit had a solution.
The model 1876 is well noted historicly. The part that interests me is why the receiver was not enlarged long enough to accomidate the 45-70 (2.105 inches) ? By doing so the caliber .50 case could have been longer also. Did they already wonder about the strength of the toggle system and soft frame (by todays standard) giving way ?
Winchester made the receiver just long enought to accomidate a cartridge of just 2.25 inches total. Thus the cases had to be a nominal 1.90 inches in length. So the Winchester solution was bottleneck cases. Fatter cases hold more powder. Bottleneck cases were already in use by some rifle manufactures so this was not an inovation.
50-95 cases can be made from the caliber .50 Sharps 2.50 cases. Lots of trimming and rim thinning but it is a solution. Buffalo Arms sells ready made cases at about $1.75 each. All new cases are solid head design so interior capacity is less than origonal cases but far stronger than the opperating pressures even in a reproduction model 1876. I found it was impossible to approach 95 grains of 2F powder and seat a bullet within limits. Cases bulge and will not chamber. 82 grains of 2F was about it with my 347 grain bullet seated on top of a cereal box wad to maintain that 2.25 OAL. If it does not fit the lifter you have a single shot.
I went with the Ideal 515139 cast of 40-1 (347 grains) because I do not like light for caliber boolits. Absolute velocity means little to me. I want "smack" on target and good penetration. Plus I had the mold. I considered making a caliber .50 jig to hollow point but the 347's shot so well I never got to. Maybe this time up.
Black powder is what the cartridge and rifle was designed for so that is where I started. 2F loads were dismal. Drop tube and/or vibrate just could not pack enough in there. The factory tooted news of near 1500 FPS with a nominal 300 grain hollow point. Mine were about 1280 FPS. 47 grains of lead just does not slow a boolit that much. So through more research it surfaced Winchester also experienced about the same. Winchester wanted to sell rifles with marketing value. A cartridge that could zip a caliber .50 slug down range with authority. So Winchester tried 3F. Problem solved. Using 3F I can drop tube & vibrate 87 grains into my cases without bulging and fit the chamber. Using my loading of the 347 grain plus the cereal box wad my rifle will produce 1465 fps (crono at 12 feet). Cases eject easily. Another plus of 3F in my rifle is there is now blowback on the cases or into the chamber. I have fired 30 rounds with just barely a trace of "soot" on the lifter. 2F left me with a mess to clean up. Plus 3F left so little fouling behind there really was little reason to swab the barrel after 10 shots. Chamber was still clean enough to seat the next round. But I generally do as 10 rounds even in 60 degree temperature does heat the barrel. 3F produced the best accuracy of the loads I tried. Extreme velocity spread is about 5 (five). I checked that several times. If 3F was all there was I would have zero complaints. I do not trust my memory for exact group sizes but I know my rifle off cross sticks will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards and is under 2.5 inches at 100 yards.
I did try 5477. I first called Accurate and spoke to one of the tech reps. Gave him all the meausrements of case, boolit and barrel. He then did his computer magic and gave me expected pressures per grains of powder. 5477 will easily duplicate 3F velocities. I was 5 grains under the implied max load when 5477 reached the same 1465 fps with the same boolit. Accuracy is not as good but not bad. It would easily drop corn crunchers at 150 yards which was the intended hunting range.
I am new at shooting the 50-95. My rifle is a Chapparal in the 4000 serial #'s. This one was put together right. I plan on more shooting when we get back up this June. I will start again with 3F. I may never move on to another powder. Why fight success ! Sure hope to get a chance at a yote or even a cougar. White tail are just a dream for center fire lever rifles in ILLinois.
Mike in Peru