Wiping jag, new idea ...

[montana_charlie]

I am one who wipes between shots when shooting black powder and paper patched bullets.
I run two wet patches through the bore on a Delrin rod after each shot.

The patch is supposed to fall off out beyond the muzzle, to be picked up later for disposal. But when the patch is pushed through on a nylon brush, it never wants to release for me.
That caused me to start using the integral jag carved into my Delrin rod, but it is so short I didn't feel like I was getting a 'good wipe' from it.
I installed an 8-32 Perma-Coil insert and screwed in a plastic 45 caliber jag found on the rack at the LGS.
That lengthened the bearing surface, but the new jag was sized more for the .45 pistols than the rifle bullet.

So, I made a new kind of wiping jag. It is long ... as long as you want to make it. And it is a snug fit in the bore when pushing the commonly used round 'waffle cloth' patches. If it was any tighter it might not work on a Delrin rod.

I tried it out yesterday, and it seemed to work well. My 'trip to the range' was delayed for a few days so my wiping patches had dried out some. They weren't as wet as they should be, but the jag still seemed to get the bore fairly clean.

So, you start out with a round headed 8-32 brass screw. I chose one that is 2 inches long.
Then you slip on a sequence of o-rings to create the 'ridged' shape of a jag.

I used BUNA-N-Nitrile rings with the N70 hardness
After trying several sizes, I settled on this combination for the .45 rifle.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/O-RingJag_zps65068ac0.jpg

Starting at the 'head end' there is a -105 o-ring then a -106 o-ring. Continue that sequence until you fill the screw - leaving a threaded end for attaching to the rod.

During my experimenting I had tried some -007 o-rings, and I shoved two of those on last.
They take up space so the threaded end isn't long enough to bottom out in my rod, and they are snug enough on the 8-32 screw to keep everything in place.

When removing leading from the bore, I resort to pushing two patches through. The fit (with my standard brass jag) is such that I usually move the rod with a rubber mallet.
Mounting this o-ring jag on my steel rod, I tried it with the doubled patch.

It was VERY tight, but I was able to shove it through without need for the mallet.
I suspect that the little bit of give in the rubber made the difference there.
Shooting PP, I don't have to deal with leading anymore. But, if I get in that situation again, I plan to try this jag to see how it compares.

The 'caution' will be to keep track of how my 'de-leading juice' affects the rubber rings.
I use pure gum spirits to loosen the lead from the steel ...

CM

[HollandNut]

great , nuther idea for me to try

thanks

[bigted]

thanks for that Charlie. gotta try it when things settle down. will watch to see how the turpentine effects the rubber.

[Chill Wills]

Smart! It should push up into the rifling well given it is tight but not too tight -just right. Worth a try. I like anything that works well with out leaving the patch stuck on the rod.

[Red River Rick]

MC:

Interesting idea!

The rubber "seats", used in household facets, come in many sizes. They also have a hole already moulded in and are usually "bevelled" on one side..............

RRR

[Lead pot]

MC.

We will call that Jag the rattler button jag. :)

[montana_charlie]

MC.

We will call that Jag the rattler button jag. :)
Suits me. But, no matter how hard you shake it, you can't make it rattle. ;)

Actually, I have already changed the configuration.

Today is a rainy one, so I'm not doing a few things that I had planned to mess with.
With time to kill, I took that jag apart and set it up in a different sequence ... one that looks better for it's purpose. The ripples are deeper.

I put on a single -105 ring under the screw head. Then a -106 followed by a -007 and continued that sequence for the rest of the distance ... finishing with two -007s just like last time.

I was about to take a picture to post when the camera battery ran out of poop. Can't get by with a pooped out battery, so it's being re-pooped as we speak.

CM

[Lead pot]

Suits me. But, no matter how hard you shake it, you can't make it rattle. ;)

CM

Don't matter! wouldn't hear it no how :)

[montana_charlie]

Having a fully pooped battery, here is that second version of the O-Ring Wiping Jag.
The OD of the -106 o-rings is 3/8 inch (.375").

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/WipingJag2_zpsb1851de1.jpg

[bigted]

so what keeps those spiffy O-rings on the brass screw? would seem like the tight pressure would make em strip back up the cleaning rod ... unless you have a nut of washer that didn't make it into the picture.

[montana_charlie]

so what keeps those spiffy O-rings on the brass screw? would seem like the tight pressure would make em strip back up the cleaning rod ... unless you have a nut of washer that didn't make it into the picture.
I 'spear' the patch in the middle rather than wrapping it around the jag. So all backward force is taken by the screw head.
The o-rings only experience a pressure that pushes them against the screw ... not back toward the rod.

Then, the end of the cleaning rod is smack up against those o-rings, and the OD of the rod is bigger than the average brass nut that fits an 8-32 screw ...

EDIT:
Since I have so much 'power' in my camera battery, here's a picture to show you the size relationships.
I put a brass nut on just for you ... but it takes up length on the screw that I prefer to use in another way.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/ForTed_zpsc65219f0.jpg

CM

[bigted]

"ahhh ... I see said the blind man when he stumbled over the stump"

I didn't take into account having the patch draped over the screw head to take the thrust of it all when shoving it thru the barrel.

thanks for the gratuitous "NUT" Charlie ... also glad you have devised a source of POWER for your camera and found a job for all that power.

[dave roelle]

Nice Charlie, i have the goodies so this evening i'll put one together looks very promising.

I'm trying to Paper Patch silhouetts and wiping takes a bunch of time so i'm playing with a multiple patch wipe method in one stroke, if i get something workable i'll post it.

Dave

[Nobade]

I'm trying to Paper Patch silhouetts and wiping takes a bunch of time so i'm playing with a multiple patch wipe method in one stroke, if i get something workable i'll post it.

Dave

Dave, have you seen "Texas Bore Pigs"? They do that sort of.

-Nobade

[dave roelle]

Hi Nobade--------------------yup i have seen those and several other bore pigs that incorporate brushes-------i'm sure they work but seems to me that they would require cleaning between uses and again time can be at a premium during a sillywet match.

It seems that i can "get by" with a wet followed by a dry patch, at least i shot some pretty good racks of animals wiping twice---kinda looks like a chinese fire drill though.

I have a hmmmmm "patch pig" made up that holds one wet and one dry patch that seems to do a fair job ----just change the patches and your ready for the next round---still that is 30 patches to load between relays-----i would however be the same movements as pushing a single wet patch.

I hope to try it at this weekends club match----the trick is changing patches quickly and haveing 15 units quickly available at the line-----------------and then theres the potential of pushing the wrong end in first (dry patch first) to deal with----playing with color coding to help with that circumstance

Sorry for the hijack Charlie

Dave

[montana_charlie]

Sorry for the hijack Charlie
No need to apologize.
I was all through tootin' my horn, anyway.

CM

[montana_charlie]

Went out to shoot yesterday, and gave the O-ring wiping jag another try.
This time it was the 'second version' and the goal was to see if it cleans as well as previous methods.
Those other methods include having the wet patch;
- speared on a nylon brush
- speared on a brass jag
- two patches on a brass jag
- speared on a plastic jag in conjunction with the jag carved into my Delrin rod.

The loading I used yesterday is known to produce pretty good results, but it didn't do well the other day when I first tried the new (version 1) jag. The barrel seemed to be about as clean as when using the other methods, but the 15 round group fired was 'loose' ... being about 10 inches at 300 yards.

While poring over my notes on this particular combination of powder and wads, I realized that I had changed the amount of powder compression by .030" ... the thickness of one of the over-powder wads. This made the cartridge OAL slightly longer than it should be and chambering was a bit hard.
Apparently, the change was enough to affect group size, because yesterday's target looked noticeably better in spite of an unforcasted 15 mph wind that popped up halfway through.

So, since the gun was shooting where pointed, I concentrated on how the patches were cleaning the bore between shots.

These were 'perfectly wetted' in my estimation. They had all of the moose milk they could hold while not being sloppy enough to have any 'squeeze out' when shoved into the chamber.
My patches on May 1st were too dry, and they barely did the job. These were just right for the task, and the jag made good use of the entire length of the patch.

The first wet one going through would meet 'resistance', and you could imagine it gathering crud as it advanced.
But, the second wet would go through with a very uniform amount of 'drag' ... indicating a good fit between o-ring, flannel, and steel ... and the smoothness of the bore made the rod set up a low hum as it moved.

If three or four more patches were passed through, each would surely show some dirt before a clean one would show up. But, after just the two wets, the bore 'looked' clean when looking in from the breech.
From that observation, I'll call myself 'satisfied' with the performance of the new wiping jag.

Since this IS about wet wiping, I'll say a word about the moose milk in the patches.

I use soluable cutting oil from NAPA, and mix it 20% oil to 80% distilled water. It's a common ratio for BPCR shooters.
Like most, I (used to) saturate a stack of patches then squeeze out the excess to make them just right.

That is a somewhat messy chore, and it wastes solution if your estimate is on the heavy side when you do the saturating.

I wanted a 'clean' process which also used exactly the amount required. Since I raise cows, I have a selection of large syringes for vaccinating them. Using one makes it possible to draw up a precise amount of moose milk and 'inject it' into the container holding the patches.

I started with an amount which would surely be too little, but added measured amounts until the patches were just right.
They were in a small catfood can with a tight lid, and over time they absorbed all of the liquid trapped in there with them, and when inverted, they 'wicked' it through the stack so that they were all equally wet.

So, I learned that .8 ml of moosemilk per patch will get a stack of them to the wetness I want to see.

No more pouring it on and squeezing it out ... no more messy hands or wasted solution.
Put a stack in the can and squirt in the proper dose.
When the liquid is all absorbed, put on the lid, invert the can, and they will be ready to go in an hour.

Depending on the density of your patch material, the .8 ml may not be the exact amount for your patches.
But, now you know how to figure it out for yourself.

CM

[dave roelle]

Hi Charlie--thanks for the update and the "patch marinating" technique----------------i'll have a go at it and see if i can get the correct mix for my flannel patches---------sure would make it easy !!!!!

Dave

[kokomokid]

I am sure my shooting partner and I have quit some good loads due to our poor fouling control in shooting greasers in bpcr. My partner uses a jag and I use a tyvex pistol brush. Thanks Charlie for sharing the info. LB

[Doc Highwall]

Charlie, after seeing your wiping jag I was looking at my Sinclair catalog and came across this.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/gun-cleaning/cleaning-rods-accessories/cleaning-jags/o-ring-cleaning-jags-prod24842.aspx

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, after seeing your wiping jag I was looking at my Sinclair catalog and came across this.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/gun-cleaning/cleaning-rods-accessories/cleaning-jags/o-ring-cleaning-jags-prod24842.aspx
I seem to remember a forum post (a long time ago) about those jags ... perhaps one of the sections of this forum.
But, they are all 'too short' for my taste, and would require a lathe to build jags for an exact fit.

I was stacking felt wads on an 8-32 screw to make a 'lap' for homemade JB bore paste when the o-ring idea came to me.

CM

[BCRider]

First off I want to thank you for a highly inspired and informed thread. Some really good stuff here!

Have you played with how tightly you seat the screw thread to vary the compression on the ring stack? There's no doubt that the tightness of the patch and jag can be altered by easing up on any compression of the ring stack. And with that in mind a slightly longer screw or a couple of less rings with two jammed nuts to lock things up would allow you to set the compression of the ring stack. Or perhaps start slightly loose and file down the end of the screw that bottoms out on the threads of the rod to let you set the stack compression? Either way this would let you set the stack compression without risking the jag and patch coming un-screwed.

[montana_charlie]

First off I want to thank you for a highly inspired and informed thread. Some really good stuff here!

Have you played with how tightly you seat the screw thread to vary the compression on the ring stack?
Thanks for responding to this thread, BCR. Obviously, you read with understanding.

No, I did not spend much time considering the possibility of 'adjusting' the jag diameter by compressing the o-rings.
Interestingly ... you speak to a probablity that certainly exists for anyone needing a fine tuning.

As it happens, my patches combine nicely with the 'simply snug' rings on mine. But patches do differ, and the ability may be of value to me (or anyone) when a new cloth type is used.

Thanks for bringing it up ...

CM