Savage 99 in 250-3000

[Kevinakaq]

Well I went to the local pawn today to buy a Pre 64 1894 and had to pass because it had been drilled for scope mount and that killed it for me. BUT while I was there I did see a Savage 99 in 250-3000 marked 689. Condition is around 75-80 percent I would say...no obvious dings in wood but blueing has definitely faded. What can you tell me about this exact rifle? I heard that they only marked the barrels 250-3000 for a short while. If I bought this it is something that would go in my personal collection. I have him down to 600 out the door but if I pressed him I could get him to drop a bit more I'm certain. Think it's worth it? Any thing special about this particular version? I know a lot of people really like the 99 and well i'm looking to buy in. Any and all sage advice would be appreciated. As for the glass it is quality new Tasco! HA! Reason I'm even considering this rifle is I recently bought a 760 in 300 Savage and research into that cartridge inevitably led me to the 99 and I became intrigued. Oh they have another 99 in 300 Savage that has been bubba'd a little on the grip cap and someone notched the forearm about twenty times....sigh. Could get it for around 550 for certain.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-01%2016.02.50.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-01%2016.02.42.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-01%2016.02.25.jpg

Thanks in advance guys!
Kevin

[021]

I have a 1973-74 99A saddlegun marked 250-3000, if that's any help.

[451whitworth]

just about any 99 in 250-3000 brings a premium over most other chamberings

[Dan Cash]

The gun is easily worth 600 as long as it has not been drilled for a scope. That outfit looks like an early 50s gun and they were not drilled. Wonderful rifle.

[Kevinakaq]

Dan, here is a zoom in of the first picture on the mount. Is this period accurate?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/888.jpg

Thanks,
Kevin

[dragon813gt]

Can't tell from the pic. How much of the color case hardening on the lever is left? Does it have a round counter on the left side of the receiver. Is the rotary brass? Value will be based of what model it is. I suggest you start here: http://www.savage99.com/index.php

In all honesty I would probably pay the $600. But I'm also in the process of refinishing all my 99s. So collector value means little to me.

[john hayslip]

If I understand it correctly as originally made it had a fairly slow twist and will probably not shoot any bullet over 87 grains well. They later sped it up and it will shoot heavier bullets too (when they changed it to 250 savage???????? )

[Wayne Smith]

The 250-300 only got to 3000fps with the 87gr bullet. That's why they had the slower rifling, they were only going to offer that bullet in the cartridge.

[Dan Cash]

Dan, here is a zoom in of the first picture on the mount. Is this period accurate?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/888.jpg

Thanks,
KevinThe scope and mount are not period so the gun would be strictly a shooter. The web site cited by dragon suggests 1951 or a bit later for DOM. As others have stated, these earlier guns were rifled 1:14 (I think). My 1952 99 will handle 100 gr spitzers and 117 round nose bullets but 120 grainers just go away somewhere.

This rifle you are asking about looks like it belonged to someone who hunted it for years then started loosing eye sight and scoped it and hunted some more. If you want to hunt the gun, $600; if you are collecting, pass.

[DeadWoodDan]

buy it you won't regret it. this will be an easy one to unload if necessary. The slow twist does create some issues for projectile choice. If you search you should find a thread by me about key holing some when first trying to work up a load.

DWD

[richhodg66]

I'd buy it for $600 out the door, but I'm a big fan of '99s. I think you'll really like it.

[Larry Gibson]

The 14" twist will be awesome for cast bullets, especially the 257454, the 257464 and even the 257463. They are all Loverin designs and should shoot very well up into 2500 fps +/-. Probably do very well with the currently available 257420 also.

Larry Gibson

[McLintock]

My father bought a 99EG in 1950 or '51 that looks exactly like that rifle, and it was drilled for scope mounts from the factory. I got an old Unertil scope from a buddy while I was in college in about 1961 or 2, and put it on the 99 with tip off mounts from Weaver I think; he liked the open sights and I preferred the scope. The gun should be good for a collector, although in used condition, but still looks in decent shape.
McLintock

[021]

If it was factory drilled for scope mounts, the "savage 99" logo will be off to the side near the top of the receiver where you can see it. If you cant see that, its underneath and not factory.

[Kevinakaq]

Great information guys I must say. I did a lot of research myself last night and learned quite a bit and I will definitely be getting a 99. Whether or not it is this one the jury is out. I will make a trip back to the pawn and do some recon. I'm a thorough person and will not rush into a purchase...willing to wait for the right one. Not saying this one isn't, but will dot all i's first.

Kevin

[OverMax]

In their time the 250-3000th was something special to behold. Fast flat shooting cartridge. Could ring somebody's door bell with it 200 yards out. These days guys buy'em for their lever & quick pointing ability's. (using open barrel sights) Still a potent cartridge but its been surpassed by a few more modern cartridges these days. But those that surpass are found in bolt actions usually. So if your looking for a potent lever. This is one of the best for that purpose. Keep in mind Savage 99s are indeed a collector. In its current condition its a shooter but still has a value near what its seller is asking. And its only going to go up in price over time. Just make sure it has a decent bore before you to purchase. And its rotary magazine is working properly.

[Kevinakaq]

I have quite a few precision rifles (6.5 cm, 6mm BR, 308, etc.) and don't expect to buy this rifle because of it's accuracy potential or superior ballistics, but always a plus. I like old rifles, I like making old rifles new if needed (I avoid removing patina or changing original finish unless gun is in serious need of a facelift as 'character' in a rifle is always welcome), I like nostalgia. It's a rifle and a cartridge not in my collection. It's a chance to learn a new rifle (never worked on a rotary) and a new cartridge and that is what I enjoy most. I'm looking to add a long term resident to my rack hence the careful approach to this purchase.

I will say I'm far from ignorant when it comes to purchasing used firearms, BUT I'm very ignorant of Savage Model 99's and am researching vigilantly at the moment...never hurts to speak to some collectors and get some 'sage' advice. Reading is one thing, listening to someone who has been there is another and I would be remiss if I didn't ask for advice on a subject I'm unfamiliar with.

LOL that was a ramble I know, but wanted to let you guys know where I was coming from on this purchase.

[starmac]

Three things I like about a 99.
The rounded receiver carries better in the field better than any other rifle I know of.
The cock on closing pulls the rifle into your shoulder instead of pushing it away as other levers do, making getting back on target better in my opinion.
A scope looks right at home on them, when it just doesn't look right on other levers.
Even though mine wasn't born drilled for a scope, I am glad it was.

[Kevinakaq]

Sound comments Starmac. I really liked the way the rifle 'raised' and it felt well balanced in my hands. Those are the kinds of things i look for....has to speak to me. As for the cock on closing, i have never felt that on a lever, but i must say my old sportsterized lee enfield in 303 is my favorite deer rifle though im not rifle challenged in that department, and i can work that cock on closing bolt like grease lightning....and i should mention im a lefty. I can imagine some ww2 'bloke' doing the same thing on the same rifle and i feel connected - my love of nostalgia again. My leftitis is aslo one of the reasons this lever rifle in a high performance caliber appeals. My eyes arent what they were (and im only 41) as just last year i had to get glasses for the first time and was determined to be nearsighted so a scope for a rifle i will carry is a plus. Those antlers are getting harder to spot let alone measure to comply with Florida law.

Hope all are enjoying their evening,
Kevin

[starmac]

I also shoot lefty, and that has always been a draw to the 99. Maybe because it was my first and only for several years, but I just have never owned a gun that carried in the field as good.

[John Boy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.250-3000_Savage

[woody1]

If I understand it correctly as originally made it had a fairly slow twist and will probably not shoot any bullet over 87 grains well. They later sped it up and it will shoot heavier bullets too (when they changed it to 250 savage???????? )

My 14" twist Savage 99 will put 3 factory Remington 100 gr. PSP's within an inch or so at 100 yds. The same with factory Winchester silver tips. The silver tips are a little shorter than the Remington PSP's. It's the length of the bullet that counts not necessarily the weight. Don't believe everything you've been told. Shoot the rifle and see for yourself.
Regards, Woody

[ammohead]

Kevin,

My 250-3000 will shoot 75 gr barnes X bullets and triple shocks sub minute of angle and right fast too. Should be sound medicine for deer or antelope. Model 99's really shine if you adjust the full length size die for minimum head space. You want the shoulder to just kiss the chamber. Seeing that they can't be cleaned from the breech the chambers quite often are cut generous so they will still operate way dirty. If you back off on the size die a good full turn and then bring it down just a little at a time you will get to a point where the brass will not want to chamber without force. Just a little bit more and it will chamber effortlessly. Somewhere in between the brass will fit the chamber perfectly. This is where 99's will really shine accuracywise.

Snag that baby before it gets away! The difference between a 250-3000 and a 6.5 Creedmore is .007" bullet diameter and the creedmore is the "latest and greatest" that all the shooting rags are talking about lately. Nothing is new under the sun.

[Kevinakaq]

Well gentlemen I have not given up in looking for the right 99 and just got back from the LGS and the rifle talked about previously is still there. We did take the scope mount off and it is NOT factory drilled. Holes are right through the Savage 99 engraving which was a disappointment.

They still had the 300 Savage for sale which turned out to be a 99F. I am far better educated on this trip. It has been notched to indicate kills on the forearm repeatedly and a bubba'd grip cap (and I do mean bubba'd), recoil pad installed, but the holes for the scope are original I think since the Model 99 is offset on the left side. Did not take mount off. With a replacement grip cap it looks as though the premium custom fabricated installation can be returned to original.

He still wants 600 out the door for the 250-3000 and 500 otd for the 300 Savage 99F. Pictures of each below.


250-3000 Savage 99
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.03.52.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.06.13.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.06.20.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.06.26.jpg

300 Savage 99
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.22.14.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.23.19.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.22.38.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.22.24.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.23.08.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.21.40.jpg

Still deciding...and maybe the correct decision is neither of these are good candidates.

Kevin

[Kevinakaq]

additional images of the 300 Savage and an excerpt from an article on the web -

"The 99F (later version) is not at all like the earlier version that we spoke of. The 99F late version stands for “featherlight”, it is a very lightweight rifle and I find it kicks like a mule but I’d never leave mine at home. If you are trying to find out what model you have and it’s an F simply look on the right hand side of the barrel and you’ll find 99F stamped on it. Another basic sign of an F is the sight boss, a sight boss is kind of a hump in the barrel where the company had to beef it up so they could dovetail the barrel for the rear sight. If they didn’t do this the rear sight would have cut right into the barrel itself due to it’s small diameter for dropping more weight from the guns total. A 99F will have a rounded tip on the forearm with checkering that runs all the way underneath it and to the other side. Later on in production the F’s were press checkered along with a lot of the other post one million serial numbered rifles. Press checkering is frowned upon by 99 owners as they aren’t as nice as the cut checkered rifles from the pre-mil era. Although, the press checkered rifles still make very nice hunting guns in any model. "

taken from - http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?166-What-model-99-do-I-have


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.21.09.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.22.03.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-05-22%2011.22.14.jpg

[dragon813gt]

That 300 Savage is in pretty rough shape. I wouldn't pay $500 because it requires to much work to bring it back. But that's also the mode I'm at w/ 99s, restorations. If you're buying it as a shooter then maybe. But you can get ones in a lot better shape for $600 around where I live. The extra money spent would be well worth it.

[gnoahhh]

That 300 Savage is in pretty rough shape. I wouldn't pay $500 because it requires to much work to bring it back. But that's also the mode I'm at w/ 99s, restorations. If you're buying it as a shooter then maybe. But you can get ones in a lot better shape for $600 around where I live. The extra money spent would be well worth it.

I agree. Grab the .250- if the bore isn't roached.

If y'all think the 99 is a great handling gun with a scope mounted on it, try taking the scope off and installing a receiver sight. Then you will realize just how marvelous they feel. Those rounded receiver bottoms just beg you to wrap your hand around them and grasp them with your thumb wrapped over the top, and away you go into the deer woods feeling invincible. Not so easily done with a big ol' scope sitting there in the way.

The previous comment re: length of bullets in the relatively slow twist of the pre-million serial numbered 99's is spot on. Generally speaking it will only be the shortest round nosed or semi-pointed 100 grain jacketed bullets that will stabilize in them, if hair splitting accuracy is your goal (.850" seems to be the magic maximum length in that regard). Longer spitzers may leave you weeping.

As an experiment, a pard and I conducted an experiment with 100 grain Nosler Partitions. Length of the bullet was too long to give more than 2-3" groups at 100 yards. (The same rifle is a consistent MOA performer with 87gr. Speers.) I made a file trim die to reduce their lengths to that .850" length, and subsequent testing garnered 1½" groups.

[rintinglen]

I ardently agree with Gnoahh. My own 99 shoots 87 grain Hornadys fine, RN 100 grainers OK, but longer, heavier bullets don't cut the mustard=3+ inch groups being the norm, with the occasional wild flier going lord only knows where. I had not thought to trim the bullets, but I've a box or two of Remington 100 grainers that I may try that trick on.

[roadie]

I think you need to decide if you want a collector or a shooter. Both of these are out of the collector status, the .300 is only a shooter. At the $600 price, I sure wouldn't back away from the .250-3000, non-factory mount holes or not. It's a nice clean looking rifle and you can't beat a quarter bore.

[Kevinakaq]

Gentlemen I just wanted to let those that contributed to this thread that my search for a Savage 99 ended today (at least my first one). I purchased a lot of rifles from a gentlemen and one of them was a 99. Thanks to all the previous posts as they made me a better 99 shopper...still learning though.

It features a tang peep sight and the wood is in good shape. A few handling marks that I think with a little steam and a few linseed oil applications will look quite nice. Blueing on barrel is near perfect, receiver 80-85 percent. I believe this is an EG model. Caliber is 300 Savage. Has not been tapped for scope which has me quite excited. Not sure if rear buckhorn sight is original as it is a marbles manuf (I would assume not). Hmm, steel buttplate, dovetail front sight.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-07-08%2015.04.37.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-07-08%2015.04.26.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/2014-07-08%2015.35.34.jpg

[onceabull]

Good catch,Sir: hereabouts that peep sight alone would likely bring you $175...Onceabull

[TXGunNut]

Your patience has been rewarded. Very nice! Congrats.

[Kevinakaq]

Patience is the key isnt it. This one cost me less than the ones i was previously asking about by a hundred dollars. Of course 250-3000 (tel:250-3000) is a more sought after caliber but 300 savage is nothing to sneeze at. Condition of this one is clearly above other ones i listed. Not to mention i am already setup to reload it for my 760 remington which saves some cash as well.

peep sight is very nice as well and there to stay.

[TXGunNut]

Quite honestly that peep sight would have been a huge draw for me, a nice bonus on a sweet rifle.

[Artful]

Good Find - I think if you walk in the woods a bit with your Savage you come to appreciate it.
And the 300 Savage is a very good cast boolit round - after all it was the inspiration for the 7.62x51/308 wcf.

[Dan Cash]

You have certainly found a gem. This rifle is what a .250-3000 is supposed to be.

[quilbilly]

I really enjoyed my 99 in 250/3000. It was a great shooter of 100 gr jacketed as well as 87's. With those 87's, it took down my largest bodied black tail deer to date (200# of hanging meat at the butcher) and the deer never took a single step after the hit. When the rifle became too valuable to take out in the field in my climate, I traded it and bought an Encore plus an custom carbine barrel in 250/3000 because I love that caliber. I am getting started working up CB loads for it.

[buckweet]

i love the .250-3000 savages ..99s
own two of them.. and another in .308