Anybody use IMR 4227 in 357 Mag. and 44 Mag.?

[Laredo]

As the title suggest, does anyone use IMR 4227 in either of these cases?
If so what were your results in pistols or rifles?
I recently read some posting from a now departed gentleman here on the forum that suggested that he thought slower burning powders were the ticket for most castboolits. After giving it some thought, and correlating it to my experience reloading jacketed bullets, I believe he knew what he was talking about.
I have an old can of Du Pont IMR 4227 that I picked up a few years ago.
I found some loading data for it in both cartridges and proceeded to load some up with Lee TL358-158-2R and Lee TL 430-240-SWC respectively.
I haven't chronograph any of these loads yet but both shot quite well in both cases. The 357 was fired from a Ruger SP-101 and the 44 Mag. from a Magna-ported pistola and a Win. 94 Trapper rifle although the semi-wad cutters had to be single fed into the levergun.(have a Lee 429-240-2R mould on the way for it)
I am planning on using the 357 load in a Mod. 94 Trapper also but haven't yet.

I was wondering what others thought about the powder with castboolits?

[Kraschenbirn]

Quite a few years back...in the days when Elmer's word was (handgun) gospel...I was one of the 'heretics' who shot something other than 2400 in my magnum sixguns. I loaded a lot of .357 and .41 Mags using compressed charges of IMR4227 under GC'd cast boolits...and, for a short time, held the Illinois IHMSA Revolver record shooting those cast loads from a DW 741. Of course, you ain't gonna find those loads listed in any current manual 'cause they were kinda 'red-line' even back then.

Today, there are better 'magnum' powders available (when you can find them) but 4227 would still be more than 'adequate' for most heavy-boolit loads.

Bill

[Bohica793]

14.5 grains of 4227 under a NOE 360477 HP in a Dan Wesson 15-2 357 is a beautiful thing.

[Bzcraig]

13.5gr (IIRC), Lee 358158 shot great out of my Ruger GP100. The felt recoil was more of a jolt compared to 2400, really different.

[Airman Basic]

Don't think you can stuff enough 4227 in a 357, 41 or 44 to reach dangerous levels.

[sandman228]

ive used it before for 357 but never tried it when I had my 44 . I used 13 of 4227 gr with a lee tl .358 158 swc bullet. and I don't know if you own 1 or not but it works great for 32h&r under a 90 gr swc bullet .

[djgoings]

[QUOTE=The felt recoil was more of a jolt compared to 2400, really different.[/QUOTE]

In the 357, I remember the H4227 powder having a much softer recoil than a similar charge of 2400.

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot a lot of 4227, both IMR and Hodgdon, I the 30 Carbine, 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum and 44 Magnums. I used it under 311359s in the 30 Carbine, 358156 and 358421 in the 357 Magnums, 410610 in the 41 Magnum and the 429421, 44-250-KT, 428244 and a couple others in the 44 Magnum. Excellent powder with light medium and medium weight cast in many rifle cartridges also.

Larry Gibson

[Kraschenbirn]

Don't think you can stuff enough 4227 in a 357, 41 or 44 to reach dangerous levels.

I'll exercise my 5th Amendment right and decline to a cite charge weight but how 'bout filling a trimmed .41 case within 1/16" of the mouth, then seating/roll-crimping a 242 gr. boolit (custom NEI mold) for close to 4/10" compression?

Back in those days, the typical IHMSA shooter's battle cry was "More powder...Bigger bullets!!" Some of the 'most accurate' loads in 1982 edition of Elgin Gate's IHMSA Reloading Guide equal or exceed the 'max' loads listed in current manuals.

Bill

[Laredo]

I too noticed the recoil difference but compared to H-110 rather than A 2400, and also a lesser charge of Unique which was pushing a Lee TL 356-120-2R in a 357 Mag.
I need to chrono the 4227.

[Larry Gibson]

Ruger 44 Magnum FTBH w/6 1/2" barrel;

WW cases
WLR primers
RCBS 44-250-KT, COWWs + 2% tin, sized at .430 and lubed with BAC
12 shot test strings
Oehler M35P with start screen at 15'

21 gr 2400 / 1274 fps
22 gr 2400 / 1331 fps
24 gr H4227 / 1283 fps
24.5 gr H110 / 1304 fps
9 gr Unique / 1050 fps

All loads also pressure tested (M43 Oehler) and are under the SAAMI MAP for the 44 Magnum.

Larry Gibson

[Laredo]

Thanks Larry.
I am 580 miles away from my reloading bench and data (yet still in my home state) but I was at a starting load for the 4227 IMR. I believe around 20.5 gr. in a 5.5" barrel 44 mag. which would put it pretty low on the old velocity pole.
One thing I can say is that with that load (240 gr. 44s) fired from my Trapper lever gun is that it would make a indention into a 3/4" steel plate at 30 yards. And that was with a guesstimated alloy of 75% sticky wheel weights and 25% clip-ons. It amazed me.

[youngmman]

I have great loads for both .44 mag and .357 using IMR 4227. I'm not at my bench now and can only remember the .44 mag because I just recently looked it up for someone else: 19 gr IMR 4227, LBT 250 grain WFN Bullet, BHN 14, sized .430" and LBT Blue Lube, CCI Magnum primer and Remington Case.
It is a 1" shooter at 25 yards, when the bullet itself is .43" that's pretty good. Velocity I estimate at about 1,100 FPS from an S&W 629, 6" with no leading. It's not the max load but has great accuracy and with the WFN bullet it will kill anything under Elk size with a reasonably placed shot.

The .357 uses the LBT 155 gn WFN but I can't remember the grains of powder.

[bmortell]

i use it in 44 mag 22gr under 240 swc gives me 1160fps primers show its not very high in pressure, also velocity spread is very small. also same 22grs under 310 gc'd this gives 1230 with magnum primer and heavy crimp, that one makes primers pretty flat. velocities from 6.5 sbh. anyone know why 22 with 240 swc is called max on hodgdon website, is it just because they dont want you to compress it further?

[AZ-JIM]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?231751-Announcement-az-gtg&p=2648331&viewfull=1#post2648331

429421's
Ben' Red lube
H 4227
1600+ fps from a Rem 788

az-jim