1874 I.A.B. Sharps Reproduction

[Fox]

Howdy!
I'm a new member. Have recently acquired an I.A.B Sharps Reproduction in 45-70. I need some thoughts.
Have a Lee .457, 350 grain, and 500 grain hollow point mold. Have cast a few bullets. 350 grain bullet is coming out .459-.460. I'm lubing with LLA. I have slugged the barrel and it's miking .4582 with a few, small tight spots. I'm thinking of loading the bullets as cast with 2400 powder. My alloy is one I put together over 25 years ago. Pure lead, WW, and some linotype. If I remember correctly, it tested out 17 or 18 BHN. Can't find my notes, so I'm working out of memory. I'd like your thoughts on over powder cotton wadding and possibly a card wad soaked in LLA. I'm not looking for hard kicking, max velocity loads. Something comfortable to shoot off a bench that groups nice at 50 and 100 yards would be good. I have no real experience with the 45-70. I've always loved the way it looks. The cartridge just looks serious. The rifle looks outstanding. Need to find out if it shoots good too. If I remember correctly, I.A.B. makes the action for Pedersoli. If you have knowledge about this I would appreciate it. Thanx for your thoughts and consideration.

[montana_charlie]

If I remember correctly, I.A.B. makes the action for Pedersoli. If you have knowledge about this I would appreciate it. Thanx for your thoughts and consideration.
They don't.
If you are going to use smokeless powder in that case, you should probably stay away from wads altogether.

CM

[Dan Cash]

Smokeless in the .45-70; forget the wads and the LLA. Make a batch of one of the Beewax/vegetable oil (peanut, canola, olive) with a tough of lanolin. 2400 will work but R7 is probably better. No expeerience with other smokeless propellants. 2fg black powder works best.

[Boz330]

IAB doesn't have the best reputation going. I had one. Oversize chamber and soft lock parts. The one I had said black powder only so I wouldn't try to hot rod it at all. I had a buddy got one the same time as me and got it shooting very well but he put a bunch of work into it. I'm not trying to rag on your choice, just hope you got a good one. I had another 45-70 that I shot smokeless in and it liked Unique and 405gr boolit with an over powder wad of Dacron. It was 14gr if I remember correctly, but check it against a manual.
I'm with Dan BP is the way to go.

Bob

[Fox]

To tell the truth, I had never heard of I.A.B. Got it sort of on a whim. I don't have an arm and a leg involved. Mine does not say Black Powder Only. I have no desire to hot rod it. My older shoulder just won't take that stuff anymore. I've absorbed a lot of recoil in my time. Just looking for something fun to shoot with a friend that has a 45-70. I've consumed a lot of GO-EX in my career. I'm pretty much over BP. I doubt I would ever load to more than 1400fps. I have a friend that loads his Browning 1885 Hi-Wall or is it Lo-Wall with 2400 with cotton and a poly-ethylene wad to around that velocity.

[rbertalotto]

They absolutely DO MOT make Pedersoli actions. There is a YouTube video of the Pedersoli factory. They make everything in house...from barrels to actions to wood. Some of the best cut rifle barrels on planet earth I might add....

Pedersoli DOES make the Uberti Sharps rifles...But they DO NOT make the I.A.B. rifle. I.A.B. makes their own rifles.

[country gent]

Give it an honest chance, work up a load test and see what it will do. As others have stated 2f bp works very good in 45-70. There are some smoklesses that work very well also. experiment and have some fun. I would consider Blackhorn 209 as a place to start also. Test it with several diffrent loads ( always starting low and working up), document your results in a notebook and see what works and what dosnt.

[missionary5155]

Howdy Fox and Welcome to the place.
I do not have one of those rifles but as in all rifles.. Check the throat diameter. If you do a "Search" here and type in "Throat diameter" you should get enough info to help you get started right.
Mike in Peru

[doc1876]

Fox,
I have a couple of 45-70s in different configurations, and am trying to learn bp with the help of these guys here, but my favorite smokeless load for my Shiloh is 48g IMR 3031 405 gr FN with no wadding. I think you will like it
I don't have my notes with me at work for my loads for my nephew's trapdoor, but I think they are real close.
Good luck

[wwmartin]

I do have an IBA sharps they are good looking rifles. First check head space mine would take .010 feeler between cartrige and breach block. Third shot went bang when I let go of the hammer (burs). They were assembled from contract parts and the ones I'm looking for are not available. I shimmed the block .008 and it shoots ok, but need to play with it more. It sure is pretty though. WW

[Blkpwdrbuff]

Fox,
I don'tmean to rain on your parade but.....IAB stands for "It's Always Broke"!!!
I had one several years ago.
It looked gorgeous but would not hold up. Oversize chamber, soft lock work.
If I were you I would get rid of it and buy a Pedersoli (sp) or Uberti, or if you can a Shiloh or C.Sharps.
You won't be disappointed!
Blkpwdrbuff

[Buckshot]

.............The IAB Sharps do have a rather poor reputation, and mainly for inconsistent quality control. I would give yours a chance first. I bought one from EMF in So.California back in the mid 90's. The wood is exceedingly nice (color and figure) and the fit to the metal is nice. The color casehardening has that on my Pedersoli Sharps beat all to heck. I have NEVER had issues with any soft lock parts. However a shooting buddy of mine bought a browned IAB Sharps and it DID have soft lock parts, which was rapidly rectified under warranty. A shame that a new rifle would have a problem, but to be honest there it is.

I had a problem with mine however (inconsistent quality?) and that was the chamber. My gunsmith checked it out and declared it a 'Lawyer's chamber'. I had him re-chamber it to 45-90 and now it's a shooting essobee. Accuracy is as good or better then my Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 or 40-65 Rolling block. Using smokeless a 45-90 is a minus on the balance sheet as the larger case merely exacerbates the large capacity the 45-70 has with smokeless. However it isn't a major problem and it's ability to shoot so accurately proves the point.

...............Buckshot

[bbqncigars]

I've been happy with my IAB Sharps Creedmoor replica. It loves a 535 Postell over 37gr of Varget.

[kcajeel]

I had one. I won't trash talk your gun but could. The first suggestion I have for you is if the double set triggers are functioning don't adjust them in any way. They are soft and a pure mess if you get into them. The cheapest replacement trigger set for these is at http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/SHARPS1000_Sharps_Double_Set_Triggers-by_IAB.aspx?panel=3&productid=378&categoryid=74
I carried mine around to a bunch of gun shows before I got rid of it. That was one of the happiest days of my life.
Good luck to you.

[Noah Mercy]

Look at Accurate 5744. A couple of guys who have won the Matthew Quigley match (and live here in Sheridan) recommended this powder to me, and I've been an advocate ever since I tried it. I don't use fillers, although you can use a little toilet paper wadding to hold the powder against the primer if you feel it will help your SD. I run my 525 grain slugs at 1280 fps, and that seems to be very close to what the top shooters are doing. I don't see much reason for more velocity in this cartridge, as it just churns up more wear and tear on the gun, brass, and shooter without appreciably flattening the trajectory or delivering tighter groups. Shoot your bullet as-cast and use a soft lube; DGL or SPG are great choices if you don't make your own. Neck tension has proven critical in my Sharps. I use a custom expander plug from Buffalo Arms...one of the most worthwhile twenties I've ever spent! Invest in a PAST recoil shield if you don't already have one, because although these big, heavy Sharps rifles don't recoil too much with modest loads, the steel buttplates do a great job of ensuring you feel every foot-pound of it. And get the best sights you can afford. MVA, Baldwin, Kelley...they all make excellent Soule rears and globe fronts. Don't scrimp or you'll curse the lack of repeatability you get with cheap vernier sights. And later, if you really get bit by the Sharps bug and decide to upgrade to a Shiloh, C Sharps, or even a Pedersoli, you can just get the appropriate base and put those sights on the new rifle.

[Lowpower]

I have an original 1859 Sharps which was updated from a percussion to a centerfire around 1864 then got a barrel upgrade to a .45-100 around 1877 or so. I'm using 24 gr of H4198 over a 500 gr cast bullet (.459) using wheel weights. Speed is a lil bit over 1200 fps and she shoots 3/4 in at 50 yds., no kick. No leading. Forgot to add that I use a dacron filler. I buy it by the yard. It's approx a 1/4" thick and I cut it into 1"X1" squares. I lay the square over the top of the powder case mouth and push it down with a pencil.I push it all the way down to the powered then tap it lightly. As a side benefit if you;re testing loads and have to yank the bullet and powder charge when you pull the bullet the powder stays in the case until you pull the dacron out. No mess, no fuss.
I'm just working up the load to use out to 600 yds for now. She looks like this although I've upgraded to a windage adjustable globe front sight with spirit level. I had to get a couple of machine screws made for the old vernier sights.

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ren1795/IMG_2791_zpsa1d38dd2.jpg (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/ren1795/media/IMG_2791_zpsa1d38dd2.jpg.html) http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ren1795/IMG_2792_zpsd026cece.jpg (http://s587.photobucket.com/user/ren1795/media/IMG_2792_zpsd026cece.jpg.html)

I hope this might be what you're looking for.

[montana_charlie]

24 gr of H4198
500 gr cast bullet
dacron filler approx a 1/4" thick and I cut it into 1"X1" squares
push it all the way down to the powder then tap it lightly
when you pull the bullet the powder stays in the case until you pull the dacron out
I have no experience with the phenomenon, but that looks exactly like the recipes I have read about which promote 'ringing the chamber'.

CM

[oldred]

I have no experience with the phenomenon, but that looks exactly like the recipes I have read about which promote 'ringing the chamber'.

CM

Or even worse!!! Especially considering the fact (if I understood correctly) that this is an original rifle in which using smokeless can be risky.

[Chill Wills]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Lowpower http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2835460#post2835460)
24 gr of H4198
500 gr cast bullet
dacron filler approx a 1/4" thick and I cut it into 1"X1" squares
push it all the way down to the powder then tap it lightly
when you pull the bullet the powder stays in the case until you pull the dacron out
__________________________________________________ ______________________

"push it all the way down to the powder then tap it lightly"

This is the exact reason Mike Venturino, writing for Lyman -Cast Bullet Handbook- latest addition no longer shows data with filler of any kind. I was curious and asked him about this. I would not want my private mail reproduced so I will not do that to Mike either, but I will post two lines he wrote;
"Experienced and reasonably intelligent handloaders can use Dacron, kapok, etc. I did it for many years. Where the problem arises is when people think it necessary to tamp the filler down on top of the powder."

I use Dacron for some applications. The idea here is to hold the powder to the rear of the huge case with the least Dacron. You can not believe how little it takes. It is all air and a method when used correctly, like anything in loading your own should not be done, unless you know what you are doing. Why Dacron? Because it is 99%+ air.
In the amount described above in blue, it is something very different, closer to a felt WAD. Exactly what is not what we are trying to do.

I see all kinds if things debated as if it, and the world were black and white. This is one of them. If you think a filler is dangerous, stupid or nuts; You should not use them. Knowledge IS power and in this case, knowing what to do and how, makes all the difference.
Some people think any hand loading is dumb! Some people think owning guns is dangerous!
Ain't America great? We still can make our own choices!

Michael Rix writing for Chill Wills :hijack::hijack:Very sorry for going off topic!

Lowpower - that looks like a very nice rifle! Be careful. Be safe!

[Lowpower]

Thank you, Micheal for Chill... :)

I guess I'm still running with old data. I've loaded and fired approx 100 rounds of two different powders
5744 and 4198 in light loadings from 21 up to 24 gr. Prior to those loads I loaded up and shot 24 gr of 4198 behind 535 gr bullets. Everything shot fine. No real kick. No ringing. Accurate, too.

I will confess I was loading a very small ball of dacron into the early cases. I still pushed it down to the touch the powder but is was the size of a small marble and pretty loose. In fact, if I shook it I could move powder down the case.

A friend of mine who has been shooting .45-60 for years using 4198 and he suggested I up the dacron size to 1/2 X 1/2 in. I have shot them with no issues.

I prefer to shoot smokeless over black powder and have been working at keeping the pressures down to those of a trap door which I also have and have been shooting for a few years. My Trapdoor is an H&R Officers Model. No rings there either.

What amazes me is there really is no definitive answer to what may or may not be a ringing problem. You hear of it and I bet some folks may have experienced it but our club of 3k + members with many, many old shooters who have been shooting in places like Friendship, IN for years and years have not addressed these types of issues with any of our shooters and we usually have a small crowd of new and old shooters almost every week.

The only place I've ever heard of it is on the internet. I'm an old pheart and have been around shooting all my life and I've need heard of it until the last few months. I've kind of ignored it because I've never had any issue with my guns. I just called another friend and advised him to hold off loading for his Trapdoor he just bought so we can scratch our heads some.

[oldred]

Lowpower, filler is one thing but a wad is quite another! Filler can be safely used when packed loosely over the powder to take up air space and hold the powder in place but when you tamp it down onto the powder and leave that air space it becomes a wad, with such conditions ringing becomes an all too real danger! It was explained this way to me several years ago and it makes a lot of sense, that wad down against the powder becomes a lightweight projectile when the powder charge is ignited but with all that air space the bullet becomes a barrel obstruction for the wad and shockwave to strike with ringing (or worse) sometimes being the result!

I too shoot smokeless in large cases, 45-90, but in a modern rifle built of modern steels and proofed far in excess of anything it's likely to be exposed to but that combination of the huge empty case volume, use of a wad, smokeless powder and the fact the rifle is built of primitive steels is IMHO a recipe for disaster.

[Lowpower]

oldred,

You're bringing me back to square one. I had purchased a front sight from the fellows in Idaho and talked with one of the LR shooters who said I should be fine with my Sharps shooting the loads I run. This gentleman is supposed to be a national champion a few times.

It would almost be nice to get something in lawyerspeak because I really do want to be safe for myself and folks I let shoot my rifle. I plan on shooting it in competition. I enjoy shooting it and the old history of the rifle. I believe it is only a few numbers removed from being a Berdan Sharpshooter Issue. Ser # 59XXX

[oldred]

Don't mis-understand I am not saying smokeless is inherently dangerous in these old cartridges, in fact there's lots of factory smokeless data out there for even the enormous 45-120, and many thousands of smokeless rounds have been fired in very old original Trapdoors without problems but with these old originals there is zero room for error! The scary thing here is that wad tamped down against the powder leaving all that air space between it and the bullet, many old rifles have been ringed by what the owner thought was a very light load.

[Chill Wills]

oldred,
You're bringing me back to square one. I had purchased a front sight from the fellows in Idaho and talked with one of the LR shooters who said I should be fine with my Sharps shooting the loads I run. This gentleman is supposed to be a national champion a few times.

By fellows in Idaho, I would guess you mean Dave Gullo's outfit. I do not pretend to know what was said on the phone but I do know details often get lost in a conversation. An example of that is when a husband and wife think they have talked about something. [smilie=s:
Dave is very aware of safety issues and this subject has been worked over well by generations of handloaders wanting to shoot the big black powder cases with light smokeless charges, referring to post 21, oldred explained well what is thought to happen when a wad is seated down on the powder charge. My guess is that if you were to check in with the gentleman from Idaho again, it would clear up how to load the light charge of smokeless.

I hope you do not feel too worked over, it is just that the way you wrote up your load jumped off the page and flagged. You sound very level headed. enjoy that great old rifle.

Chill Wills

[Lowpower]

Chill Wills,

I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm glad I made my post which flagged the responses I got. Ya'll got me to stop what I'm doing and take a second look at exactly where I want to go with my rifle.

On a side note this was not an attempt to hijack the thread but to try help the fellow out with his new .45-70. While we took off down a rabbit trail I know it helped me and probably the other fellow, also.

Thanks all.

Lp

[shooter2]

This Quote from Lowpower:

I have an original 1859 Sharps which was updated from a percussion to a centerfire around 1864 then got a barrel upgrade to a .45-100 around 1877 or so. I'm using 24 gr of H4198 over a 500 gr cast bullet (.459) using wheel weights. Speed is a lil bit over 1200 fps and she shoots 3/4 in at 50 yds., no kick. No leading. Forgot to add that I use a dacron filler. I buy it by the yard. It's approx a 1/4" thick and I cut it into 1"X1" squares. I lay the square over the top of the powder case mouth and push it down with a pencil.I push it all the way down to the powered then tap it lightly. As a side benefit if you;re testing loads and have to yank the bullet and powder charge when you pull the bullet the powder stays in the case until you pull the dacron out. No mess, no fuss.

end of quote...


Ross Seyfried, a knowledgeable writer, used a similar formula for BP Substitute loads. He used either IMR4198 or H4198 at 40% of the BP load with a 405 grain bullet. For the 45-70 that would be 28 grains. He used, and I use, a healthy wad of Dacron poly. Lowpower uses a 1/4" x 1" x 1" wad. Mine are about three times that or 1" x 3". Very little recoil, the bore comes out nearly clean and it is accurate. I use wads only in straight wall cases. I never use a cardboard or fiber wad. Lowpower uses 24 grains of 4198 and that seems like a good point to start.

I used it in a Ruger #1 and a Marlin 1895 both in 45-70 and loved it. I am not familiar with the IAB Sharps so I cannot speak to that.

[big bore 99]

I picked up a Pedretti Sharps in 45-70. It sure is a pretty rifle. Is this an IAB? I'm new to the art of casting and need some help. I've shot it and my BC with jacketed and it shoots real well. I have 3 molds here I've been casting with. All Lee. A 457-340F, 457-405FHP and aC457-500F. What might be a good starting load of IMR4198 for both these rifles. I'm thinking of pan lubing these. Should I alox them first lightly? I picked up some beeswax to make the lube. What might be a good formula? Great forum. A wealth of knowledge here.

[montana_charlie]

I picked up a Pedretti Sharps in 45-70. It sure is a pretty rifle. Is this an IAB?
Yes ...

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have personally experienced ringing due to using a wad in a very light load. Using a browning BLR in .358 Win. A dacron wad pushed too tight over some powder in the 4227 - 4198 range using a plain base 158 grain SWC gave me difficult extraction. Inspection indicated a ring in the case neck where the bullet base ended. I added the wad to reduce vertical stringing with the light load. Luckily I coulsd detect no damage to the chamber with full loads after that. Be very careful with certain types of filler. Completely filling a case with cream of wheat, corn meal or other inert filler seems safer to me. If using dacron or other fluffy fiber do not compress. In the .45-70 5744 or 4227 with 300 grain to 350grain bullets will work well for pleasant shooting.

[big bore 99]

I have had nice groups using the XMP5744. Same stuff? That was using 300 HP jacketed.Had trouble with unburned powder. I talked to a tech at Accurate and he said to never use any kind of filler. I've used the Classic much more than the Pedrettti. I bought the Pedroseli vernier and hooded front sight for it. Have yet to sight it in.
New to the casting art and have some IMR 4198 and looking for some nice loads with the above molds. 350,405 and 500 gr.

[big bore 99]

Forgot to add... XMP5744 is impossible to find around here anymore. That's why I'm asking about the IMR4198. I've had nice results with 40 gr of the IMR4198
under a 405 JSP, but am wondering how it might act with these cast slugs.
Thanks

[Boz330]

No problem getting black powder why not use that and cast your own boolits? The velocities that you are looking for are in that range anyway.

Bob

[big bore 99]

Thanks Bob. Will pick some 2f up. I've tried black with cast awhile back. Need to work on it more. Question- I have a Lee mold in 500 gr with the gas check shoulder at the base. I imagine I could use that without a check? Where might be a good starting point for loads in the Pedretti Sharps and the Buffalo Classic?
I'm pretty new to cast and black powder. I've read to just fill the case? Would that be compressed? That 500 is pretty long. Just seat to the specs? Would alox be a decent lube? Sorry for all the questions. Trying to learn from those that are doing. Thanks again!

[Boz330]

See how deep the boolit will seat in the case with it started in the rifling. Probably around a 1/2". Fill to just above that point put in a wad and boolit. You want to seat the wad with a compression die not the boolit. Work up 2 gr at a time till the group shrinks. keep going till it opens back up. That will give you the best compression for that powder. I would guess that it will be in the 68gr to 70 gr range.
Do not use alox it will gum up your gun like you can't believe. There are a number of recipes here for the looking. I like NASA lube by our own Bullshop here on the board. 20-1 tin-lead mix is sort of the standard for the boolits but you can use what you have till you get to that point. I've never tried a GCed boolit without the check but give it a try. A Lee straight shank mold isn't that expensive and you will want to go that route.

Bob

[big bore 99]

Thanks!

[big bore 99]

one question... how do I know how deep the boolit will seat in the case as it touches the rifling?
Thanks again

[Boz330]

Just make up a dummy round and seat the boolit a little long and try going deeper till it chambers with minimum resistance. Most want the rifling imprinted on the front drive band. Then you can play with backing off the rifling to see if that improves the group or makes it worse.
The nose should be as close to bore diameter as will fit and hold everything centered. There are more ways to skin a cat than you can think of. It is all about experimenting and see what works. There is a lot of good info on the BPCR section. You will see enough ideas to keep you shooting for a long time experimenting.
I'm not sure what you are looking at for powder but Old Eynsford is working really well at a reasonable price compared to Swiss. And even cheaper is Kik. I have had good luck with both.

Bob

[country gent]

SOme made dummy cases with a split neck to act as a collet holding bullet snug, chamber round and measure overall length. I made mine with a 1/2" long X 3/8" wide cut out behind the neck left neck about 3/8" long and split. This allows me to measure from case mouth to bullet base directly and easily. Seat bullet by hand long chamber and carefully remove round. its ready and begging to be measured

[big bore 99]

My thanks to Bob and country gent. I'll be working on this today and will let you both know how it all works out.
Again, many thanks to you both!

[country gent]

Start out with enough 2f black powder to fill the airspace under the bullet when seated. Add a card wad or milk cartoon, playing card, tablet backing card board or similar and start there with the bullet just off the rifling. Work up in 1 grn increments changing nothing else.When you find the powders sweet spot. experiment with bullet seating depth when that spot is found possibly try diffrent primers. Experiment with diffrent things but 1 at a time. Keep detailed notes and document what you do this way you can repeat what works and not what dosnt. Start out with bullests in the 20-1 range of hardness and fairly heavy, the lyman 457125 is an all around good performer.

[big bore 99]

OK, back with what I found. I did the Buffalo Classic first. It's an older one That's stamped Wesson and Harrington. I made up some dummy rounds and kept bumping them out with the bullet puller until I got some rifling marks when chambering them, then backed off about .020. For the 500 gr. o/all length was 2.770 with one driving band exposed. This is much longer than the specs say. (2.540). With the 405gr it was 2.550 o/all. The 340gr. was 2.585 o/all. Think I'm on the right track?
This rifle was very accurate @ 100 yd. with jacketed and smokeless, even with all that free bore. It had a scope on it and I took it off and put on a peep sight with a tunnel front. Another question... the Lee 500 gr mold I have is for a gas check. Is it ok to load these without the check? Will that shoulder on the back hurt anything? I'm ordering a new one with a flat base next month.
Working out some pan lube now and hope to give these a try this coming weekend. Haven't picked up any black yet, but will load up some light trapdoor loads with smokeless. Thanks for all the help.

[country gent]

Emmerts Improved works pretty good for both smokless fad and holy black. Its easy to make and use. My recipe is 50% crisco unslated plain shortening, 40% beeswax, 5% canola or olive oil, and 5% anydrous lanolin. Melt beeswax in double boiler and add crisco, oil, and lanolin stiring over heat for 5-10 mins or so until well blended. I yse foil cupcake liners and cupcake tins for molds and ladle into them.Use a double boiler type set up to keep from scourching the lanolin or fire issues. Stiffness can be adjusted with the oil or beeswax. Does a decent job keeping leading down and black powder fouling soft.

[big bore 99]

Thanks country gent. Need to pick up some lanolin and then I'll be set to go. What do you think about using that 500 gr without the gas check on it? Drops out of the mold with the shoulder for it. Any dangers or bad results?

[colfi]

They absolutely DO MOT make Pedersoli actions. There is a YouTube video of the Pedersoli factory. They make everything in house...from barrels to actions to wood. Some of the best cut rifle barrels on planet earth I might add....

Pedersoli DOES make the Uberti Sharps rifles...But they DO NOT make the I.A.B. rifle. I.A.B. makes their own rifles.

Beretta makes the Uberti range of firearms. I visited both Pedersoli ( family friends) and the Beretta factory ( over the road from pedersoli) I watched Uberti parts come in from their various source factories and saw them assembled at the beretta factory. This is the reason that the quality of the Uberti has gone down in recent years.

Pedersoli also source in the Sharps action block and finish it, they do all their own barrel and woodwork making but source in everything else, beretta sources everything for the Uberti. Col